tripping the lights(not so fantastic)

[BUGEYEDBRIT]

Hi, I am currently trying to improve my garage, its a work in progress as I had to re roof the thing, add a new door, and am trying to minimize the termite damage!


I have a question concerning lighting in my garage, basically I have a GFI'd circuit that has exterior outlets and the garage tied into it, the garage has an outlet and a switched light running off that. Currently the garage door opener is plugged into the outlet and works fine, it has a built in light that is ok for getting out of the car, but poor for working.
I wanted to add a shop light with some florescent tubes, so for a temporary solution I wired a porcelain ceiling light fitting that has an outlet built in, but this trips the GFI as soon as I connected the shop light (its fitted with 2 x T8 4' tubes rated @ 32w) The whole circuit is on a 15a GFI breaker, I guess the load is too much, but how can I resolve it?

Thanks

Bugeyedbrit

 

[Norcal]

Check your wiring the GFCI is just doing it's job, a grounding conductor touching a neutral terminal is one possible cause, which will trip a GFCI without doing the same to a circuit breaker.

 

[dimarcelli]

Check for continuity between the ground prong and each of the other two prongs on the fluorescent fixture. There shouldn't be any.

 

[pattenp]

His circuit is on a GFCI breaker not a GFCI outlet. He needs to determine if it's a ground fault or over current trip.

 

[BUGEYEDBRIT]

Thanks for the replies so far, I will re check the wiring in the light fitting, to see if its correct, is it possible that the lights and the door opener are too much for a 15a breaker though?

 

[pattenp]

Thanks for the replies so far, I will re check the wiring in the light fitting, to see if its correct, is it possible that the lights and the door opener are too much for a 15a breaker though?

Does the breaker only trip when both the lights and opener are on at the same time? In other words the lights don't trip the breaker on their own and the opener doesn't trip the breaker when running by it self.

 

[BUGEYEDBRIT]

I had the lights on (which was great, I could see!), then when I plugged the door opener back in via the newly wired ceiling outlet, it tripped.

 

[pattenp]

If just plugging in the opener tripped the breaker then it appears to me you've got something funky going on in your new outlet.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Neutral and hot crossed? Some GFCI units do not like crossed hot/neutral.

Charles

 

[eljefino]

Are you using a "Cheater" grounding adapter for the flourescent? They like having a good ground.

 

[BUGEYEDBRIT]

Hi,

the shop light is a sealed unit, I don't know what grounding adaptor it might have.

 

[BUGEYEDBRIT]

Hi again, I checked the wiring, the earth screw I used was a little small, so I replaced it, and had some success:

http://s90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/frogeye/?action=view&current=IMG_0405.mp4

it went ok like this, then as I was packing up to come back into the house, it tripped again.....so I am back to thinking about either replacing the porcelain ceiling light fitting with a GCFI box, or replacing the GCFI breaker?
The breaker covers all of the following:

4 outside sockets (2 at the front of the house, 2 at the back, the bathroom sockets in both bathrooms, the lights and sockets in a workshop in the basement, plus the garage, does this seem excessive? Could I just install GCFI protected sockets in all the above, rather than have a GCFI breaker?

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/frogeye/photo-12.jpg

 

[BUGEYEDBRIT]

I replaced the GFCI breaker with an ordinary 15a breaker, connected the lights and garage door opener, and sucess, there is no more tripping, even when the opener and lights are used at the same time (I now have GFCI receptacles in the garage, one bathroom and the workshop, so and fairly well covered instead of the GFCI breaker).

We are about to renovate the kitchen, so will re-vist the panel as part of that project as we are going to convert to a gas oven, so we might free up a slot on the panel, or maybe even replace it.

thanks for the help and suggestions.

 

[Gary S]

Best solution.

Put a 100 amp panel in the garage. Add 6-10 circuits for receptales. About 30 outlets total are nice. Then add another 3-5 circuits for lighting.
Once that is done, you should have enough space in the panel for your 240v stuff. Add those circuits as needed.
No more tripped breakers with this solution.

 

[Kevin C]

A lot of fluorescents will nuisance trip a GFCI. There can be nothing wrong with any of the parts. Ballasts have a harmonic and a phase shift that seems to cause a problem.

To avoid nuisance tripping, a GFCI should not supply:
Circuits longer than 100 feet
Fluorescent or other types of electric-discharge lighting fixtures
Permanently installed electric motors
Installing a GFCI to prevent electrical shock from electrical equipment seems like a good idea, but nuisance tripping may become a serious problem. The installer must carefully consider the effects of loss of power to a circuit before installing GFCI protection, such as circuits with refrigerators, freezers, garage door openers, etc. The most effective shock prevention system for electrical equipment and circuits is a good equipment grounding conductor run with the circuit wires and connected to all metal equipment.

http://safeelectricity.org/index.php/information-center/library-of-articles/english-articles/55-home-safety/317-ground-fault-circuit-interrupters-gfcis

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Its highly likely that the GDO has a ground fault since the GFI breaker tripped when the GDO was plugged in since u have ruled out the possibility of an over-current when u swapped breakers. I would check the wiring in your GDO and make sure it is good since everything in a garage is required to be GFI protected under NEC 2011. That is if u care about inspections and codes!

 

[BUGEYEDBRIT]

Its highly likely that the GDO has a ground fault since the GFI breaker tripped when the GDO was plugged in since u have ruled out the possibility of an over-current when u swapped breakers. I would check the wiring in your GDO and make sure it is good since everything in a garage is required to be GFI protected under NEC 2011. That is if u care about inspections and codes!

The GFI only tripped when both lights and GDO were plugged in, on its own the GDO was fine, I only have GFCI receptacles in the garage now, and despite what others have posted about GFI and GDO's/ florescent lights not playing nicely , no trips so far.

 

[Kevin C]

The GFI only tripped when both lights and GDO were plugged in, on its own the GDO was fine, I only have GFCI receptacles in the garage now, and despite what others have posted about GFI and GDO's/ florescent lights not playing nicely , no trips so far.

By others I'm assuming you meant me? My experience was the more lights the faster the trip. Two lights was generally OK. Four lights was an issue. All eleven? Forget about it. It was always a matter of the number of lights I had on and how long they were on.

My guess is that the GDO add its own load / leakage that in combination with the lights own phase shift is enough to cause a trip.

 

[justsam]

You will forever have electrical problems! The British car summons the Lucas spirit, thereby invoking the Price of Darkness.

 

[RM209]

Nice Bugeye Sprite! RHD no less! 948cc?

(Sorry, off topic).

RM209

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The GFI only tripped when both lights and GDO were plugged in, on its own the GDO was fine, I only have GFCI receptacles in the garage now, and despite what others have posted about GFI and GDO's/ florescent lights not playing nicely , no trips so far.

There might not have been enough leakage current from one or the other(GDO or lights) but combined they pissed off the GFCI! LoL

 

[BUGEYEDBRIT]

Nice Bugeye Sprite! RHD no less! 948cc?

(Sorry, off topic).

RM209

yep, RHD, it came over to Canada with me from the UK, its totally standard, so 948 cc, twin 1/8th su's and no synchro on first (who needs it anyway)

I guess one or other (or both) the lights and GDO were causing an issue for the GFCI breaker, they are now both plugged into GFCI receptacles, and are not tripping anymore, so as we say in England 'job jobbed'.