tropical garage?

[no1steelsmith]

Here on GJ I've read/read lots of threads from the frozen North. Their building styles/concerns are drastically different from those faced in the Northern Tropics here on the Gulf Coast of Texas. I am just 30 miles above Corpus Christi Texas in the Mecca of RV territory. I am a Certified RV Service Tech and own/operate my own mobile tech business.
At this time, I am considering the purchase of a property that will allow me a commercial presence and a permanent site for my motor home. Ideally, I would also have 3-5 RV sites as rentals for customers waiting service or just positive cash flow.
That kind of arrangement is allowed here, so my next focus is toward brain-storming the most cost effective working space I can erect that would allow access to an RV's roof and exterior.
What I have in mind is an open air structure with twin 40' ISO containers down the sides for secure storage.
Anybody building anything like this?

 

[sberry]

I would be leaning to a pre engineered steel buiding. It's code compliant, insurable.

 

[no1steelsmith]

That difference between where you are in Michigan and where I am on the Gulf Coast is where things get lost in translation. By that I mean, a large part of the year I am enveloped in Gulf of Mexico breezes. Gulf of Mexico temperatures are in the mid to upper 80 degree range! We're talking about ambient temperatures/conditions that are akin to walking around wearing a really warm/wet blanket. As soon as you walk outside your glasses fog up! If you work outside, your clothes are soaked in sweat as soon as you start and don't dry out.
I have worked inside of shops exposed to outdoor ambient air, on those days when it is relatively cool, it can be so humid inside you get misted on. Days with a breeze you don't want anything to slow down that air circulation! Metal buildings rust out in an amazingly short time.

 

[no1steelsmith]

What I envision is, a really tall barn-like structure, maybe permanently open-ended! Capturing all of that heat at around 20' above ground is to be avoided. I would intend to insulate the roof/ceiling structure to keep condensation/drippage to the outer perimeter of the work area. That means the ceiling would have a raised center with the outer edges at a lower point to allow the condensation to fall outside the work area and onto the inclined roof which covers the twin ISO containers. BTW one of those containers would have two 16' overhead doors in the side leading into the work area (the one on the left). The other container would have a single 16' OHD. The back half of the container on the right would house a laundry room/guest quarters/indoor-outdoor kitchen and double as office.

 

[DBendr]

Simple pole barn. Galvanized truss. Concrete columns, Galvalume roof.
Gravel floor is all you need. Sandy ? so the columns will need to go in quite a way and probably have a big foot at ground level.Maybe go with a whole footer so the next guy can block it in some day ?
Definite on the concrete column and steel truss with I beam headers, trusses welded.. That's tropical storm country. Sono tubes make it easy.

 

[bad_idea]

The race track I go to has a setup like you suggested. (2) 40' conex boxes w/ a steel a-frame roof between them. Has been in place as long as I know.

 

[j p smith]

I have a friend that used to live west of Buckeye Az. He did what you are talking about. He set the containers 30 to 40 feet apart, set some large wood beams on top of the containers. Using big angle iron pieces welded to the container top with the wood beams bolted to the angle iron. Then he set the trusses on the wood beams. Seems like the container floor on one side was the same height as the concrete slab so he could roll his tool box in and out. Later on he put a 3rd container across the back with a walk space to go out back on either end. I don't think he did any more before he moved back to the New England area

 

[Falcon67]

I'd think even the county would have some sort of minimums because you're near a hurricane coast. If you are in Nueces County then

http://www.tdi.texas.gov/wind/maps/nueces.html

 

[nadogail]

Welcome Aboard!

IMHO, the containers could be welded to anchors cast into the foundation. If you want security, you are going to need some kind of a skirt between the lower edge of the roof and the top of the containers. A chain link fence will allow breezes and pressure equalization in case of a storm. The roof could extend to the outer edges of the containers to keep some of the rain out.

Possibilities are endless, but not budgets.

 

[theoldwizard1]

It gets hot and humid in MI, just not 8-10 months of the year !

Forget the container. I don't think they would be tall enough for many RV. Maybe as a temporary solution.

The real issue is, can you live with just "ocean breezes" or are you going to need "conditioned" space ? How many bays are you planning on ? 1 ? 2 ? More ?

You want a steel building/pole barn. Probably need about 20' ceiling but the real trick is passive cooling ! Big doors are good, if you can stand the humidity. The one design that I know works is, add a "dormer" on top of the ridge. Make it about 6-8' high and about 10-12' wide. The sides need to be movable windows so that they can be opened to let the hot air out. They will also let a lot of light in, which can be a issue if the side faces west. Research other "passive cooling" solutions.

Insulation a metal roof is not my forte, but you need the ABSOLUTE BEST INSULATION YOU CAN BUY ! Plan on insulating the walls even if you can not immediately afford it. Some day you will want air conditioning. 2 - 4 mini-splits would work well.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Long term, plan on adding solar panels to the roof. They are getting more and more cost effective every day and wiring them up to "sell" power back to "the grid" has become very simple. You could easily recover 10-25% (maybe more) of your monthly electric bill and get credits on your tax bill.

 

[sberry]

That difference between where you are in Michigan and where I am on the Gulf Coast is where things get lost in translation.

There is nothing lost here. If this needs to be insured and is not an agricultural building it will likely need an engineering stamp. All the calculations drawings and stamps come with a pre engineer job.
It may even save money vs over built home brew ideas. Insurance may be substantially cheaper especially if you have someones pricey RV in it, you can still slip a container under to build in to.

 

[shortykorte]

Boy your right about humidity in Corpus area. I didn't know humidity until I visited Corpus and I'm from Florida.

For a commercial building I concur with the post above about a pre-engineered metal building due to do it being standardized commercial construction, you are in hurricane country and coatings are so much better now. There's plenty of steel buildings right on the coast in Florida. In wood construction, nails will still rust.
Also, the metal building will go up faster, present professional appearance, easy to replace panels and probably better resale.

 

[no1steelsmith]

Permanent RV 'car ports' are a common sight here. They are built like a pole barn with open sides, usually with cable tension braces (X-braces) on the sides. Most RV 'ports' are 10-15' wide, I'd like mine to be 30-40' wide. The slab underneath would be 15-20' wide with a deck structure to either side 8-10' wide. Adding a pair of ISO containers to either side of the main space is easily done. This is not an expensive build, kind of a minimalist approach. No need or plan to ever add air-conditioning, this won't see full time use. I run a mobile service business, full time! This just adds an option for doing roof work out of the sun without leaves and stuff becoming a part of the mix.
Insurance on this type of structure would be pretty minimal. My business liability bond covers the rest.

 

[no1steelsmith]

Commercial presence and a commercial building are two entirely different things! What I envision would allow me to do what I need to do without the expense of a commercial building. That's what I want. When I'm not using the structure for RV repair/service work, I intend to use it for my own personal projects/hobbies. Lets not make this more complicated or expensive that it really needs to be.

 

[no1steelsmith]

When you think of this don't think full-time commercial business! Just the opposite would be closer to my needs/intentions. This would be my permanent residence with the side benefit of having applications/uses that would enhance my mobile tech biz. Having some number of 'extra' RV sites to rent might be related to RV service, or not, they might end up being just what they are, rent-able RV sites.

 

[sberry]

We are not talking something that adds huge expense, I have 2 farm buildings, both pre jobs. Engineers stamp basically satisfies building inspectors if needed.

 

[no1steelsmith]

In a former life I was a welder/fabricator for 35 years. Included in that time was a period of 13 years spent in the experimental aircraft business. While I don't have any degrees in engineering or architecture I do have a huge amount of practical experience to draw from. I also graduated from BSU with a certificate of completion for their autobody program where I carried a perfect 4.0 average ('84-'85). Several years prior to that I went through the welding program at SDCC ('77-'78 w/3.85 average) after which I passed my AWS welding certification for unlimited plate/all positions (Navy Spec's).
My latest venture was after the crash of '08 when I came to realize that in tough times people didn't have to have what I was selling!
As a certified RV service tech (Florida dept of Edu), I am no longer in that position. If people don't have hot water, heat or AC as needed, I have a job! Adding to that, the option of cleaning, recaulking, resealing or replacing an RV roof, just helps me keep my 'dance card' full. A couple of big jobs a month + all of the little service calls makes my income stable.

 

[no1steelsmith]

My intentions of keeping this to a minimalist approach is based upon my own personal past. I lost my last shop as fall-out from '08. This was a house/shop where I lived, worked and dreamed for 22 years, until it all came tumbling down.
I was a tool/skills junky. There were few arts in the builders forum that I didn't lust after. My shop held a 15 x 30' paint booth with retractable wall, a full compliment of cabinet makers tools. Welders, plasma-cutter, hot-saw and so much fabrication equipment I can't even remember it all. A modest machine shop (16 x 80" lathe, 8 x 38 mill), sandblast cabinet and a 3-phase 10hp compressor to run my vast array of air tools. My last hurrah was attaining skills as a metal shaper. I had 3 english wheels, a pneumatic planishing hammer, a powered helve hammer w/48" throat, and the list continued on! My next target was to have been sand casting of aluminum (and later steel) parts.

That's all gone now. My wife and I have a deal that I don't acquire anything that won't continually bring in an income. So, I need to keep this build as cost effective as possible.

BTW Pole buildings here are engineered structures.

 

[theoldwizard1]

. Adding a pair of ISO containers to either side of the main space is easily done. This is not an expensive build, kind of a minimalist approach. No need or plan to ever add air-conditioning, this won't see full time use. I run a mobile service business, full time! This just adds an option for doing roof work out of the sun without leaves and stuff becoming a part of the mix.

I thought you were going to give up the "mobile" business and were looking to convert the business to a "fixed" location !

 

[mytimeyet]

everyone is just trying to be helpful... You looking for something like this picture?

 

[no1steelsmith]

Nice picture! You have the general idea, just remove the post under the apex and you've got it.
Yes, I do realize everybody is just trying to help, and thank you all for your input! I just thought since my needs/goals are so specific to My particular situation I should share the 'why's'.
Not only is my location very specific, my vision for shop/work space is too! Having gone down this path before in Idaho, I have givin a lot of 'think-time' to a replacement in this new environment. The locations are different, (my Idaho home shop was considered 'high desert') with their inherent changes in climate (new location northern tropics). It took me 2 years to become able to work here during the heat of summer. I could handle it part-time but it takes some getting used to, managing that combination of mid 90's heat w/upper 90's humidity!
If anything, circulation fans to 'help' with the prevailing breezes are the way to go here. I will probably look into that if it gets too bad.
This year with it being an 'El Nino' we had rain like I'd never seen before! Our water features here in the RV resort are at levels some people haven't seen in 10+ years. Can't count on that though. Usual for here is drought conditions w/high humidity ... weird!

 

[no1steelsmith]

about that picture, if you added an inclined roof over the containers and a longer overhang to the main roof you'd have it! The space between the incline over the container and a gap below the eve of the main roof is to allow circulation. this may become a screened area or, sliding windows or some hybrid thereof? It is a long section, at 40+ feet.
Another change I'd make to your picture would be to add more peak/height to the main roof w/rafter-ties added. That middle section should measure 20' below the rafter-ties to allow me to work up there without worrying about hitting my head!

 

[no1steelsmith]

To everyone who has replied to this thread; Thank you! Communicating via the written word/internet, sometimes leaves the emotions of the subject open to misunderstanding. I hope in my zeal for the subject that I have not offended anyone with my sometimes blunt communication style. I simply know my circumstances and recent history to the depths of my soul ... It was absolutely devastating to loose my shop (house, not so much). Unfortunately, I was/am married and my wife had to go through this with me. On the up side, being married, I couldn't just say, "Oh hell no, ..." and 'punch-out early'. My wife depends on me to cope with whatever comes and to stick around. If not for that ... I was on the bubble.
Being a mobile tech in Rockport texas is just my new reality. I have to deal with those changes in circumstances as best I can and make the best of it.

Planning for a new version of a shop is just me coping/trying to.

When I said it was un-fortunate that I was married at the time that, it all 'hit the fan', I meant that if you have got to have your world go down in flames you don't want to take anyone with you. When the economy tanked the ones who got hurt worst were the self-employed sub-contractors in the blue collar world. Their money supplies were cut-off over night with no recourse. It was just OVER! Pick up the pieces as best you can, if you can. I'm sure the divorce rates skyrocketed for those in that particular group, families just plain discintigrated over night. I'm glad our kids were all older and none of them had followed me into a hands-on blue-collar career. My decision to reinvent myself as an RV service tech has been the right decision for my age/health. At 57 my eyesight is no longer as clear/focused as it once was, this alone made aviation welding a non-starter. What I once did easily I can't even see without bi-focals!
Just like me, my wife had to see go to auction all of her treasures, collected over the course of her life-time. Having to witness that, was almost worse than seeing my own stuff go. Not something we ever want to happen again. We now live in a 35' motor home in an RV resort. We don't own anything in storage in this state or any other, we had to cut it all loose.

 

[Carves]

These things are starting to become as common as blowflies down here.

Plenty up in our tropical north, especially in the mining areas.

Bloke down the road from me has a pair of 40footers sitting on posts with a trussed, gable roof over them.

Looks a bit like this,

... but his posts are high enough to roll stuff straight off a truck, and in the doors.


I think he also meshed under the containers and uses them for a chicken run or something ..
.

 

[nadogail]

No1Steelsmith,
I am imagining a living quarters in the containers (stacked) on one side. Am I correct?
The other side will have, office, storage and guest facilities.

 

[shortykorte]

"At this time, I am considering the purchase of a property that will allow me a commercial presence and a permanent site for my motor home. Ideally, I would also have 3-5 RV sites as rentals for customers"

I took "commercial presence" as you wanted a commercial place of business. I understand now what you mean and are doing. Sounds like pole barn to me with wings on either side. Of course middle bay will be wider.

 

[shortykorte]

These things are starting to become as common as blowflies down here.

Plenty up in our tropical north, especially in the mining areas.

I think he also meshed under the containers and uses them for a chicken run or something ..
.

There is a manufacturer of these here in North Florida. The ones they have on display are huge. I have a small one and the canvas has held up for 20 plus years.

 

[no1steelsmith]

Ha, now you are all gettin' it! What I'm after is a minimalist approach with a presentable appearance. The ones posted from AU have the right 'heart of the matter' but lack any pretense of refinement for appearance sake. Remember, my wife has to call this home and be OK with how it looks. The last thing I want to do is make her feel she has to apologise for how our place looks.
After the rough-out of the initial build is done, I'd like to insulate the ISO containers and add siding/windows to make it more presentable and comfortable to work in. I would also consider AC in the twin containers once they are insulated/finished inside and out. What I don't want to do is try to AC a huge area that I really don't have to have cool. Again, minimalist ...

 

[no1steelsmith]

There was a question about living quarters being installed in one or both of the containers. Not my intention at this time, we live full-time in a 35' motor-home which will be parked on one of the RV sites.
The addition of guest quarters in the right hand container is just for that purpose. Temporary living arrangements for temporary guest(s). Another question/perception is that I would stack containers, not what I am looking for. I would like an inclined roof over each of the containers @ less than 45*. That would leave me with an open eve for circulation purposes.
Something else I did not communicate very clearly was Gulf of Mexico temps @ mid to upper 80's in degrees (f), that is the water temperature here! The humidity just rolls in off of the Gulf. 85% is normal humidity, I've experienced 98-100% here, without it raining!

 

[no1steelsmith]

I have considered the fabric covered greenhouse option. There was a rather advanced design in Idaho near my old house. It was a local government building pertaining to 'law enforcement'. It wasn't a jail (as far as I know) administration/offices I believe. Last time I saw it, was wearing well, still looked 'new' not old decrepit. It was 15 years old at that time.

 

[kbs2244]

If it will be OK with any code needs, I would say go for it with the container based idea.
Your location is outside so much of most of members experience we cannot realy comment.

For example, when I was at a MB dealership garage in San Juan PR, the shop walls were chain link fence under a sheet metal roof.

Air movement was the main concern.

 

[no1steelsmith]

Very similar environment between PR and Corpus Christi as I understand it. Yes, air circulation is the key to survival here.

 

[no1steelsmith]

Exactly what will be allowed will depend on whether the property I purchase is in the county or within the city limits of Rockport or Fulton, Texas. The county is Aransas.
ISO containers are seen here as 'temporary' structures. We have sand over a layer of calcified/compressed hardpan. The level of depth for the hardpan varies greatly. There are a couple of ways to add stability for deck piers which is what I would like to use as blocking material for the containers. Earlier, someone mentioned the useage of those cardboard forms for concrete poles. I would use them, filled with crushed rock inserted into a hole much like those used for pole buildings. You just end up with a rock piling 4' in the ground. Place the deck pier on that crushed rock pole and it has no where to go. Combined with mobile home tie-downs for storm stability, you are locked in place. Those tie-downs meet code for mobile homes, it's just a different use.
The ISO containers would be considered independant of the RV port. As long as I don't make them too integral to the RV port I'm OK. The more inter-twined I make the containers to the RV port the more questionable it all becomes. I'm thinking the slab needs to be of the 'floating-slab' style, with the poles of the RV port completely independant of the slab just as pole buildings were intended to be constructed. I am also considering having rock fill brought in and poured into a retaining wall/perimeter wall with footings. The floating-slab would be poured inside the perimeter wall. My goal would be to raise the floating-slab 18" above grade and still have stability/drainage. The ISO containers would be on deck pilings with the floor of the container at the same height as the floating slab. A pressure-treated lumber deck would join between the two. The deck top would be 2 x 4" with a laminated beam half way between the perimeter wall and the container's tube structure.
That way the interior floor of the container is at the same level of the deck which is the same level as the floating-slab. This will allow me to wheel out motorcycles from the container to the working area of the wood deck. It would also allow me to roll out my roll-away tool box to work on an RV, cut down on the distance walked.

 

[UpNorther]

Cool thread. I live in central Minnesota, so this isn't a common build for up here.

If air circulation is key, might be advantageous to raise the ISO containers off the ground a foot or two also. Can be done easily enough with sauna tube footings. Anything to help with a cross breeze at ground level, instead of just a front to back wind tunnel.

 

[no1steelsmith]

My reasoning behind the 18" of elevation above grade is just this last spring I personally drove down the main street maybe 200-300' from one of the properties I'm considering. The water level was mid-wheel deep over the road! With other vehicles driving towards me in traffic I turned around when the water started coming up to the hood! The property I'm looking at is 6' above the level of the road that flooded. With an additional 18" above grade I'd feel pretty safe as this year has been the high water mark for more than a decade. Storm surge is a whole 'nother matter and all bets are off! I believe that particular part of Rockport is about 9' above sea level, even though it's at least a mile from the actual harbor.

 

[no1steelsmith]

What are sauna tube footings? I'd guess that they may be similar to drainage pipes for septic systems. They are filled with crushed rock and have holes perforated up and down the entire length.

 

[UpNorther]

Sauna tubes are construction cardboard tubes ranging in diameter from 6 inches and on up to many feet. Usually a bobcat with a hydraulic auger attachment is used to drill hole (up here 4' is frost line). Tube is inserted, edges backfilled, then tube is filled with concrete, and rebar in bigger applications.
It makes a quick sturdy footing.

 

[Trick414]

What are sauna tube footings?

I'm guessing he meant "sonotube".

http://www.sonotube.com/

 

[UpNorther]

^^^ he's correct