Trouble with outdoor spigot

[v1ru5879]

I'm in the process of designing a sprinkler system and have run into a pretty major issue or so I think. I am on well water and using the 5 gallon bucket method n pressure gauge at the main spigot I'm getting 50 psi and 30 gpm. However at the furthest spigot only 45 psi and a measly 5gpm. Also one of the other spigots second closest to well is only 40 psi and didn't bother checking gpm. Any reason as to why such the variance on psi n gpm? Funny enough the third furthest spigot was reading 45 psi and I haven't check gpm on it. Maybe the original owner cheaped out and sized down those spigots? Or would something like a boost pump be a solution? I know the main under the house is a 3/4 copper line for sure cause I just fixed a pinhole a few months back. I appreciate any and all input

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[Copymutt]

Most likely due to small lines you can't see,1/2". Also every 90 bend decreases the pressure considerably.
Jim

 

[sberry]

Also, common silcocks are designed to limit water on small systems so opening one doesn't dump the pressure in the whole system. Opening a full 3/4 on a 3/4 line drops the pressure to low. A well has some considerations. You may be able to dump that much that fast under some conditions but the flow will change with pressure drops, a lot of factors on a well.

 

[kctyphoon]

I'm no plumber, but some valves have much smaller openings compared to the actual pipe sizes being used. If you're in a Home Depot or home store just look at some in the plumping section.. garden hose stuff is like that too.

 

[v1ru5879]

Most likely due to small lines you can't see,1/2". Also every 90 bend decreases the pressure considerably.
Jim

Guess I will have to crawl under the house and inspect the lines to see if they are sized down as I first suspected. If it is I guess I'll be swapping out to 3/4 unless there is another solution

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[v1ru5879]

Also, common silcocks are designed to limit water on small systems so opening one doesn't dump the pressure in the whole system. Opening a full 3/4 on a 3/4 line drops the pressure to low. A well has some considerations. You may be able to dump that much that fast under some conditions but the flow will change with pressure drops, a lot of factors on a well.

I'm just confused because I figured all the hose bibs are reading different with the exception of two on psi and gpm I only tested two out of the 4

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[v1ru5879]

I'm no plumber, but some valves have much smaller openings compared to the actual pipe sizes being used. If you're in a Home Depot or home store just look at some in the plumping section.. garden hose stuff is like that too.

This might also be another factor I didn't think about. Previous owner may have purposely put a conservative hose bib in these locations

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[SARG]

Just a suggestion .... I'd be sure your well can support a sprinkler system before spending the installation money. You may have calculated 30 gpm but that may be drawing from the reserve.
I have a well that produces less than 2 gpm and it will support a power washer .... for about ten minutes ... until the 200 feet of reserve is used up.

 

[v1ru5879]

Just a suggestion .... I'd be sure your well can support a sprinkler system before spending the installation money. You may have calculated 30 gpm but that may be drawing from the reserve.
I have a well that produces less than 2 gpm and it will support a power washer .... for about ten minutes ... until the 200 feet of reserve is used up.

The 30 gpm was calculated at the spigot right off the well. The spigot I calculated that would be used was at 5.5 gpm. This is only a worst case scenario as I plan to mainly run the system with either an electric sump pump or a 1" gas powered pump. I have a ditch that I can bring water into my front yard that I plan to pump. The back however doesn't get enough off the ditch alone so the sprinklers are only gonna be for the small section

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[jakemac]

Plant more weeds. They're still green and they don't require as much water.

The house I bought had a sprinkler system, I've never used it. My philosophy on lawncare is that if it's green, it stays. I refuse to risk drying out my well in the summer over making the lawn look good for the neighbors. They can waste their own water if it means that much to them.

 

[Wamsutta]

1/2 inch supply lines are too small. Going up to 3/4 inch makes a big difference.

 

[Mick56]

Are you going to be using something like Rain Bird full circle sprinklers? Different size nozzles are available, you could use slightly larger nozzles the farther away you get. Smaller nozzles close to the begining should help raise the pressure to the farther sprinklers.

 

[v1ru5879]

Plant more weeds. They're still green and they don't require as much water.

The house I bought had a sprinkler system, I've never used it. My philosophy on lawncare is that if it's green, it stays. I refuse to risk drying out my well in the summer over making the lawn look good for the neighbors. They can waste their own water if it means that much to them.

I am only specing the system to that hose spigot in rare cases that we aren't able to utilize the river water and a sump pump or possibly a gas powered pump. I guess worst case scenario I literally run one sprinkler at a time with the low flow from the spigot. Using the pump I should have more than enough flow and pressure I plan on using minimum 1" poly from the pump

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[v1ru5879]

I really thought the whole layout was 3/4 I really need to go under the house to take a look. Here is a picture of the hose spigot in question, looks like 3/4 idk it was getting dark n mosquitos were swarming so I didn't take a measurement only some pics. Might be possible this is a low flow spigot?

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[v1ru5879]

1/2 inch supply lines are too small. Going up to 3/4 inch makes a big difference.

Are you going to be using something like Rain Bird full circle sprinklers? Different size nozzles are available, you could use slightly larger nozzles the farther away you get. Smaller nozzles close to the begining should help raise the pressure to the farther sprinklers.

Yeah I think about 5 full circles max is what I'm planning, I'm actually at the plotting of the heads step after taking my measurements today. I really only have a small section I need to be able to get water to that doesn't flood with the ditch i use to flood the yard

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[v1ru5879]

I'm about 30' from the water table we had the original pump replaced last year. It's 1/2 HP 10 gpm pump, well guy even told me you'll never run out of water here

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[bonneyman]

Most likely due to small lines you can't see,1/2". Also every 90 bend decreases the pressure considerably.
Jim

I remember from HVAC class that (with freon) a 90 deg elbow has as much internal friction as 3 FEET of straight pipe! Teacher always taught us to keep elbows to a minimum because of this.

Figure water is probably the same idea

 

[mires]

I really thought the whole layout was 3/4 I really need to go under the house to take a look. Here is a picture of the hose spigot in question, looks like 3/4 idk it was getting dark n mosquitos were swarming so I didn't take a measurement only some pics. Might be possible this is a low flow spigot?

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Shut the water off and pull the stem out of there. That is an older Woodford hydrant without a vacuum breaker. I have seen those full of leaves and junk. Just have to pull the stem out and turn the water on to blow it out. Not saying for sure that is the problem but I've seen it more than a few times.

 

[usa#1]

I really thought the whole layout was 3/4 I really need to go under the house to take a look. Here is a picture of the hose spigot in question, looks like 3/4 idk it was getting dark n mosquitos were swarming so I didn't take a measurement only some pics. Might be possible this is a low flow spigot?

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I had a similar problem supplying water to an inground irrigation system using that type of frost proof faucet. It turned out that faucet had some internal "packing or something" that restricted the flow and caused significant pressure drop. The plumber I was working with (it was a new house) pulled the stem and removed some type of packing from inside the valve. It solved the low flow and pressure drop problem. You could swap the valve with a full port ball valve, but I didn't like the look of the valve as it was mounded on the exterior of the house and wasn't designed for easy attachment of a garden hose.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

Shut the water off and pull the stem out of there. That is an older Woodford hydrant without a vacuum breaker. I have seen those full of leaves and junk. Just have to pull the stem out and turn the water on to blow it out. Not saying for sure that is the problem but I've seen it more than a few times.

This^^^, that would be my bet also, I don't know that much about faucets but those look like those frost free faucets.
I have excellent water pressure and volume from my well pump but I have some of those faucets that just dribble out.
I'm tired of fixing them and have started replacing them with the old style hose bibs.

 

[v1ru5879]

Unfortunately I live in an area that gets well below freezing in the winter so I dunno if there is a less restrictive option for me to replace it with

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[v1ru5879]

Shut the water off and pull the stem out of there. That is an older Woodford hydrant without a vacuum breaker. I have seen those full of leaves and junk. Just have to pull the stem out and turn the water on to blow it out. Not saying for sure that is the problem but I've seen it more than a few times.

Damnit just did this but only cleaned off the stem it wasn't dirty at all :/ I should have blasted the water afterwards, actually I should have re read this post first smh oh well always tomorrow

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[v1ru5879]

I had a similar problem supplying water to an inground irrigation system using that type of frost proof faucet. It turned out that faucet had some internal "packing or something" that restricted the flow and caused significant pressure drop. The plumber I was working with (it was a new house) pulled the stem and removed some type of packing from inside the valve. It solved the low flow and pressure drop problem. You could swap the valve with a full port ball valve, but I didn't like the look of the valve as it was mounded on the exterior of the house and wasn't designed for easy attachment of a garden hose.

Do you remember exactly what part he removed? I took the stem out and inspected but didn't see anything that would be easily removed

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[Yarpo]

1/2 inch supply lines are too small. Going up to 3/4 inch makes a big difference.

We run all our outdoor spigots with 1/2" pex, 3/4" for irrigation systems

 

[usa#1]

Do you remember exactly what part he removed? I took the stem out and inspected but didn't see anything that would be easily removed

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Seems like it was a disc like piece that I believe fit around the stem. We worked for about an hour using a pressure gauge to monitor pressure in the irrigation system while it was flowing. We knew we had plenty of flow and pressure available but couldn't get sufficient pressure at flowing volume to the system so we started swapping things and narrowed down to the frost proof valve. Same brand that you showed in your picture. My valve was the newer design with the back flow cap. Plumber was surprised that the faucet was the problem. That's when he decided to take it apart. He removed the "disk/gasket or whatever" and that cured the problem.

 

[v1ru5879]

I'm finding that 3/4 frost proofs aren't very easy to find. I actually would like to replace all 3 u have. I'll snap a pic of the hackjob a plumber did on the front of the house tonight. Neither of the three are secured to the foundation either smh.

We run all our outdoor spigots with 1/2" pex, 3/4" for irrigation systems

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[v1ru5879]

Seems like it was a disc like piece that I believe fit around the stem. We worked for about an hour using a pressure gauge to monitor pressure in the irrigation system while it was flowing. We knew we had plenty of flow and pressure available but couldn't get sufficient pressure at flowing volume to the system so we started swapping things and narrowed down to the frost proof valve. Same brand that you showed in your picture. My valve was the newer design with the back flow cap. Plumber was surprised that the faucet was the problem. That's when he decided to take it apart. He removed the "disk/gasket or whatever" and that cured the problem.

Was it right after the nut when you remove the handle? That's the only disc I remember seeing that was removable

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[usa#1]

I called the plumber and ask him what he removed. He said there is a rubber "washer like disk"with a hole in it that is located on the stem near the end where the washer seals against the faucet seat. He said you could remove the screw that holds the sealing washer to allow it to slip off the stem rod or just cut it off. Hope this helps

 

[zak77]

You stated you measured 30gpm at the spigot right off the well but then you state the well pump is a 10gpm pump. So it seems you're getting 3x's what the pump can produce and that doesnt add up. I can believe the 5.5gpm at the spigots though.

It seems as though the spigots will not support the size of the system you want so it may be necessary to run a larger run from the pressure tank to where you want the line to exit the structure with some shut-offs where necessary. That way you will be guaranteed the volume you need.

 

[v1ru5879]

I called the plumber and ask him what he removed. He said there is a rubber "washer like disk"with a hole in it that is located on the stem near the end where the washer seals against the faucet seat. He said you could remove the screw that holds the sealing washer to allow it to slip off the stem rod or just cut it off. Hope this helps

Awe shoot thanks, you didn't have to do that. So it is the one I was thinking of when I took the handle off I'll give that a try tonight

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[v1ru5879]

Just read it again and I know what you are talking about now

I called the plumber and ask him what he removed. He said there is a rubber "washer like disk"with a hole in it that is located on the stem near the end where the washer seals against the faucet seat. He said you could remove the screw that holds the sealing washer to allow it to slip off the stem rod or just cut it off. Hope this helps

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[v1ru5879]

I thought that too but that hydrant just dumps water like no other I did the bucket method twice and sure enough that's what I was getting

You stated you measured 30gpm at the spigot right off the well but then you state the well pump is a 10gpm pump. So it seems you're getting 3x's what the pump can produce and that doesnt add up. I can believe the 5.5gpm at the spigots though.

It seems as though the spigots will not support the size of the system you want so it may be necessary to run a larger run from the pressure tank to where you want the line to exit the structure with some shut-offs where necessary. That way you will be guaranteed the volume you need.

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[Yarpo]

I'm finding that 3/4 frost proofs aren't very easy to find. I actually would like to replace all 3 u have. I'll snap a pic of the hackjob a plumber did on the front of the house tonight. Neither of the three are secured to the foundation either smh.

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I can look at what we use or have in the van tomorrow but if you google 3/4 frost proof silcock you'll get plenty of results. If you wanna fuel your tool addiction you could get an M12 expander tool, pull all the copper out and run in some new 3/4 lines

 

[v1ru5879]

I can look at what we use or have in the van tomorrow but if you google 3/4 frost proof silcock you'll get plenty of results. If you wanna fuel your tool addiction you could get an M12 expander tool, pull all the copper out and run in some new 3/4 lines

Yeah let me know what you guys have. I found them online but my local big box stores don't show them at all. I'll try a specialty store tomorrow n see. Unfortunately I may end up doing that seeing as two years ago we had to redo our water main due to two leaks, one was under the garage where the original owner built on top of smfh had to trench around the garage n lay down PEX. Then a few months later another leak behind where we tied in the PEX so that became PEX also. PEX all the way up untill under the house where everything is copper. Then a couple months ago had a pinhole in the main going to the water heater so I used a piece of PEX on that too. So it's something that I eventually will have to do, lol right now I just wanna grow some grass and now have a dirt storm when I mow what little grass is growing. I figured if anything it will at least keep the dust down if the grass decides not to grow

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[davewo]

That looks like a Woodford faucet. I replaced my big box junk with a Woodford and I am not happy with the flow rate.

 

[v1ru5879]

That looks like a Woodford faucet. I replaced my big box junk with a Woodford and I am not happy with the flow rate.

It is indeed a Woodford that's what I'm thinking is the problem the more I read.

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[davewo]

It is indeed a Woodford that's what I'm thinking is the problem the more I read.

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I have another Woodford getting dusty on the shelf waiting to replace another leaking faucet, but I just can't bring myself to install it. There's another company, Arrowhead, that makes a nice faucet. I have one and recommend it much over the Woodford.

 

[v1ru5879]

I went to my local big r and they have the arrowhead frost free ones, I may take that route

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[Yarpo]

Yeah let me know what you guys have.

Van is full of of Woodford, so seems like that's of no help to you

I'm just the FNG but given that we're not out doing service calls every other day I imagine they're fine, but certainly doesn't hurt to replace things or try something else. Good luck!

 

[v1ru5879]

Van is full of of Woodford, so seems like that's of no help to you [emoji38]_hitti

I'm just the FNG but given that we're not out doing service calls every other day I imagine they're fine, but certainly doesn't hurt to replace things or try something else. Good luck!

Woodford seems to dominate the market it seems like that anyway. I think I'm going to try a arrowhead and use a shark bite to tie it in. Almost makes me wanna get some PEX n the m12 expander lol

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