Truss and Joist Hanger Fasteners

[Zaxxn]

Hi everyone!

The hangers/ties for the trusses that were spec'd by the manufacturer were Simpson Strong-Tie H2.5a, I think a pretty standard hanger. When I look up the specs of them, they call for 8d nails (http://embed.widencdn.net/pdf/plus/ssttoolbox/nqxbmocxiw/C-C-2017-p314-315.pdf). Now, 8d nails are 2 1/2" long, but my trusses are built out of 2x4, meaning that at least the nails through the trusses will stick out an inch. Somehow that doesn't sound right. Anyone any experience with this?

Same for the joist hangers (Simpson Strong Tie U Series) - the nails will go through 2x10, and Simpson seems to specify 16d nails for them??? Not sure where I am putting 16d nails through the side of a 2x10!

Yes, exterior wall and roof framing is a new one for me, but I am learning...I apologize if it's a dumb question, but someone once told me that there aren't any dumb questions, just dumb answers ;-)

--Zax

 

[firebirdparts]

They make a short nail just for this, with the diameter of a 16d but only an inch and a half long. I have no idea whether it complies with the drawings, but it does a great job in practice. I suppose if you google "joist hanger nail" you'll see what I mean.

 

[RocketScott]

Use 1.5" long nails into the trusses.

On the joist hangers they call for 16d for the double shear nails. The others are 1.5" 10d

If you look at note 14 on what you posted it refers you to the pages that have fastener design information. Changing from a 8d to an 8d-1.5" nail reduces the load by 15%.
Increasing the size to a 10d-1.5" will give you comparable loads to the original design.

 

[larry4406]

Some of the nails “in the saddle” portion are at 45 degrees and I believe those need to be full length nails to essentially toenail.

 

[Zaxxn]

I know why I ask these questions here! Thank you very much for the advice, much appreciate, and yes, 1 1/2 inch nails just for this purpose are available and found

larry4406: You are absolutely right, the saddle portion has the 45 degree holes for that purpose!

One more issue out of the way thanks to the GarageJournal crew!


Thanks,
Zax

 

[ddurrett896]

I use these and bought an Hitachi NR38AK.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/202097073

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

FYI, don't be surprised if the big box stores do not carry the correct nails for this. I ran into this at Lowes last month. Apparently I was the first person to actually read the info on the box.

 

[ford33]

If only a one-time job, consider buying an inexpensive pneumatic palm nailer tool for installing those short thick nails. Works wonders and saves your arm after a day nailing hundreds of nails.

 

[Zaxxn]

If only a one-time job, consider buying an inexpensive pneumatic palm nailer tool for installing those short thick nails. Works wonders and saves your arm after a day nailing hundreds of nails.

That was kind of my thought. I already got plenty of nailers, framing, roofing, finish, etc., just not one with the nail tip exposed. All my guns are Bostitch, and I've been very happy with them over the years, so I just ordered a palm nailer of theirs and will try that for now, because I have a feeling I won't use a positive placement nailer all that much after this project. My lumberyard that supplied everything so far has the Simpson nails in stock, going to grab a 5lbs box.

Thanks again,
Zax

 

[850xpeps]

Simpson strong tie hanger screws and done. I’ve got a palm nailer and love it for the truss hangers because it’s hard to hold a short nail in your hand lol either buy and exposed tip strip nailer or use the screws. I’ll just use the screws from now on.

 

[RocketScott]

Getting screws through gang plates really *****.

Simpson came out with these screws a little while ago:
https://www.strongtie.com/strongdrive_interiorwoodscrews/sdwc_screw/p/strong-drive-sdwc-truss-screw

I have not used them but it almost seems like cheating to just be able to drive one screw in from the underside and be done with it. Check with the engineer to see if it would be an acceptable alternative.

I use Hitachi strip nailers. I leave galvanized in one and bright in the other. They are expensive and the paper taped nails fall apart when they get wet but they are still worth it, but I frame for a living.

Palm nailers are great. That would be my recommendation to the OP.

For hand banging a cheap pair of needle nose pliers is good for holding the nails. Keeps the fingers away.

 

[Flail]

1 had to put over 2000 of those in my ridge beam alone. I used the harbor freight palm nailer ~$25.00and it performed flawlessly.

https://www.harborfreight.com/palm-air-nailer-68027.html

 

[matt_i]

Simpson makes the correct nail or screw, the nails are even stamped on the head with the #8 or #10. They are rated by Simpson to uphold the strength of their metal connectors, hence why its a good idea to use them....then there are no issues. In my local Home Depot they are available by the box in the "Simpson Section".

If things are wide open the nails go pretty fast. But if you are backed into a corner where hammer blows are going to destroy stuff I used the screws and an impact tool, done.

Don't use the screws where the heads would prevent future issues with drywall or other sheeted interior siding.

Every hole which sits over a wood piece needs a nail or screw.

 

[Zaxxn]

This is so much great input all! Thanks again! I was on the verge of getting a positive placement nailer, but since I don't see Myself framing a whole ton in the future I just grabbed the palm nailer and go with that for the few truss connectors and joist hangers I need. Can't be that bad.

This is such an impressively knowledgeable forum.

--Zax

 

[mobetta]

Joist hanger nails are ONLY for use when going into a single 1.5" of lumber.

Anywhere else when the nail CAN be longer than 1.5" IT MUST.

 

[RocketScott]

Joist hanger nails are ONLY for use when going into a single 1.5" of lumber.

Anywhere else when the nail CAN be longer than 1.5" IT MUST.

Do you have any documentation to back that up?

 

[Radix2]

Do you have any documentation to back that up?

When installing any joust hanger the thing to do is go to the installation directions for that hanger.

for example for Simpson son strong tie products- https://www.strongtie.com/resources/product-installers-guide/landing

It will give ratings and derating for the recommended nails and in some cases alternatives.

One of the most critical common errors contractors make is to use short "joist hanger nails " on all the holes including the double shear types - this causes a massive derating and is almost always a dangerous mistake.

Here is a nice table to print with the common hangers and nailing schedules on it https://embed.widencdn.net/pdf/plus/ssttoolbox/ghb9vaylvf/C-C-2017-p135-138.pdf

 

[RocketScott]

I'm well versed in hanger installation. I think there's been a miscommunication

I read your post to mean that when installing a hanger on something thicker than a 2x the face nails needed to be longer, which is not necessarily the case. What you were really saying is that the double shear nails needed to be longer than 1.5", I think

 

[Radix2]

I'm well versed in hanger installation. I think there's been a miscommunication

I read your post to mean that when installing a hanger on something thicker than a 2x the face nails needed to be longer, which is not necessarily the case. What you were really saying is that the double shear nails needed to be longer than 1.5", I think

I'm not mobetta who you asked the question of, however, I don't think you will find it allowed to use 1-1/2 for the face nails at all if you want to achieve the specified load.

To get to the specified load, the carrying member must be at least 3x. If going into a 2x, you can use the 1-1/2 nails.... but you have to reduce the load to .64, that is the load rating is reduced by 36% of table value.

 

[RocketScott]

Girth is more important than length.

Call your local Simpson rep for clarification on specific situations.


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[Tduby]

Girth is more important than length.

Call your local Simpson rep for clarification on specific situations.


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That’s what she said