Truss / staircase /height questions....

[jpcjguy]

Hi all,

Posted up a while ago about some garage designs I was contemplating. Had to put on hold for other stuff and coming around again.
I am think a 30x30 (outside measurement) with 12' ceiling for lift. I am looking at 9/12 pitch with the garage door on the eave side.
Some questions/dilemmas.
Initially I thought of doing a combination scissor truss on the lift side and attic on the other to keep the overall height down by having a 10.5 wall height. But then I started to think of the 'attic space' I was giving up over the lift.

I am also thinking of having a regular staircase to access the attic storage - especially if I do the whole thing.

This garage is for my 83 CJ7 and my 7.3 Excursion. Only the jeep will be in there full time - until another project comes along.....but with two 5yr olds and a 2yr old that could be a while!

So do you think I could get 2 vehicles in the garage - one being in the lift area, one straight in next to it, and have a staircase in a 30' wide garage? do an outside staircase possibly?

The garage would be a box with 1 man door on a gable side and an 18x8' or 20x8' door. Not planning on windows.

Here is the price info for the truss:
R1- $170.00 each
R1g- $236.00 each
S1- $126.00 each
S1g- $242.00 each

Only a $44 difference between the attic and scissor - or about $300 total.

Attached is the truss info from a local supplier:

 

[Chris705]

Since your thinking of a square layout can you put the OH door on the gable end, then put your stair going up at the rear? Or use an "L" shaped corner stair? Also maybe then put windows up in the storage area at each end?

 

[jpcjguy]

That is an option if I end up with not using scissor truss. Here is my rough idea of a floorplan. The red lines around the perimeter are the man door and OH door.
The 'cars' represent my excursion and jeep cj. The grey squares are the lift posts.

 

[captain14]

Be careful if you plan on putting the staircase outside. Another member explored that and his planning board told him NO!

Can you plan for the staircase to enter the attic area at the peak of the gable to allow more headroom instead of the eaves?

 

[jpcjguy]

Be careful if you plan on putting the staircase outside. Another member explored that and his planning board told him NO!

Can you plan for the staircase to enter the attic area at the peak of the gable to allow more headroom instead of the eaves?

Good thought - I am in a small subdivision with 2 acre lots. The HOA dissolved 15 years ago. Just need to account for county rules.

That is an idea for the stairs on the gable end - if I make it a square, then it does not really matter my roof orientation.

 

[jpcjguy]

Ok so the roof orientation opposite of the house is probably not going to fly with the SO. Here is a pic of the lot and house (ignore the lines -using an electrical pic):

The garage will be where the shed is and the main door pointing to the road.
So how can I get a staircase along the side like in my 3rd post? Having 12.5 ft ceilings for a lift means probably too long of a staircase without a landing. I am not a fan with it in the back corner - I would like to be able to access the upstairs without walking through the garage(especially the kiddos). How about a U-turn up high? Like the following rough sketch:

I figure since I have 12.5 ft ceilings, I could put a half bath underneath that area and the compressor under the stairs....

 

[bczygan]

Turning your entire lot into a driveway?

 

[1967mgbgt]

A "u-turn" staircase case is going to be difficult to get furniture, etc up there.

 

[jpcjguy]

Turning your entire lot into a driveway?

You would think, right? It is 350' from the road. No - the garage is for my Jeep CJ7 and Excursion. I will leave it grass access for now, since I don't drive it much. The drainage is excellent and if it ever becomes an issue, I will put in a gravel driveway.

 

[75CrewDeutz]

Your going to run into a challenge with head height at the trusses. Trusses are typically 2' max spacing and stairs need to be at least 3' wide. I think your going to have to have a couple more trusses specked out for over the stairway. Also if your arrows on the u-turn stairs point up you will only have about 3' from the landing to the ceiling. I'm thinking you will have 22 risers at about 7.3" and 21 steps.

If you spin the steps around the landing will be about 4'3" off the garage floor and leave you about 8' of head clearance.

 

[jpcjguy]

75Crew - doh! Great point (slapping head). I missed the obvious...and what you have is a good option.
So I did more digging and found a picture of Gerald_O's garage (from his build thread):

He has 2 landings with the upper turning into the upstairs space. I wonder if I could have more steps from the upper landing to the 2nd floor and reduce my main stairs height so that I would not need a lower landing? Angling the upper landing is not taking any headroom since I have 12.5' ceilings. I guess I would need to find out how far I can leverage out from the 2nd landing..

 

[75CrewDeutz]

What your looking to do is certainly achievable, you just need to do some adjusting until it works out to how you want to have your garage laid out.

 

[jpcjguy]

I hope so. My wife thinks I am in a state of analysis paralysis on this garage. While she might be somewhat right, I learn more every time I review my plan/ideas from what I see on this forum.

 

[tomroblee]

I know that there is a lot of appeal for having a second story for ???? The problem is that any design of staircase will take a significant amount of floor space from both the first and second floors. When you factor in the 12'+ ceiling height plus the depth of the truss bottom cord, you will have some rather steep stairs.

You might want to consider the option of building a 30' x 36' or a 30' x 40' garage and skipping the second floor entirely.

 

[Mike in Ohio]

How often do you expect to be going into the attic? A set of pull down stairs may be an option to save first floor space.

Some thing like this for instance.


http://www.laddersattic.com/

 

[jpcjguy]

tomroblee and Mik_in_Ohio - you bring up excellent points that I am seriously considering. The garage started as 28x28 with scissor trusses to accomodate a lift - just like my buddy's:

and he recommended going 30x30 (he did not have the space) because the excursion takes a ton of room in the lift bay area.
Of course, it took off from there. I got sucked into the attic trusses because (you are roofing and "foundationing" that area anyway logic (cheapest square footage you can get! sales pitch)
This lead to a 1/2 scissor and 1/2 attic truss roof line to keep the overall height down of the building and still support a lift. Then the cost differential to upgrade to all attic trusses is only about $350. (and even with the scissor truss my wall height would still be 10.5 feet - saving a whopping 2 feet in height)
Now the staircase is an issue that will also cost $$$. Damn snowball effect.
Eventually down the road it will be insulated and HVAC (mini split) but now if I have 2 distinct areas - upstairs and down) that increases the $$$.

As for attic room - it would be storage at first - then maybe a man-cave or kid cave (twin 5yr olds and a 2 year old) when they get older.
Also considering potential resale -we have no plans of moving currently) - a large garage is not a big selling point (except generally to the husband)- but if there is a upstairs room, that could be more enticing for the wife as "her" space (please no bashing on gender roles - just using an example)

Sorry for the rambling but I feel like I have ADD with this project - lord knows my wife is done hearing about it.

 

[tomroblee]

If you really want a worthwhile room, you might consider a truss something like the one pictured by Hockey88fan in this old post:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126000&highlight=attic+trusses

I can understand why you might want to finish out the second floor room in stages at some later date, but consider how much "fun" it will be to carry the drywall up a narrow and steep U or L shaped stairway.

 

[jpcjguy]

If you really want a worthwhile room, you might consider a truss something like the one pictured by Hockey88fan in this old post:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126000&highlight=attic+trusses

I can understand why you might want to finish out the second floor room in stages at some later date, but consider how much "fun" it will be to carry the drywall up a narrow and steep U or L shaped stairway.

Whoa! Hockey88fan's trusses are awesome! But those on top of a 12.5' first floor would be a huge building and the SO would not go for that....

Great point about carrying the drywall up later - did not think of that. (unless I wait years and my twin currently 5 yr old boys can do the muscling for me!)

 

[DonPowers]

My first floor ceiling is 11 ft and the second floor trusses are 2 ft deep putting the second floor at 13 ft. Since most building codes require a landing at no more than 12 ft, I put one at just under 12 ft that is about 10 ft long with one step up to the second floor.

Due to the length, I sistered the outboard stringers, which started out as 20 ft 2 x 12s.

The steps are 4 ft wide and adjacent to the 3 ft man door, to facilitate getting larger things to the 2nd floor.

View media item 45823
Good luck with your build.
Don

 

[tomroblee]

After re-reading your thread several times, I'm a bit confused about why you want to use scissor trusses for half the garage.

You say that your buddy used scissor trusses to accommodate the height of a lift. Your pictures don't show how the garage door is installed, but I can only guess that it is some sort of high rise set-up where the door follows the slope of the ceiling when it opens. The sketches of your proposed garage show a large single door. It can't be mounted so it would follow the slope of the scissor truss ceiling when it opens ( since you will have a flat ceiling behind part of the door opening.)

Is there some reason the you really want a super tall vaulted ceiling in half the garage? If you will have 12.5' walls, why not use attic trusses for the full width of the building? Have you considered having two 10' wide doors rather than a single 18' or 20' door? If you used two doors, you could build with a 12.5' side wall (using the truss of your choice) on the end where you have your lift. You could build a 9' side wall on the other part of the garage and use a truss like Hockey88fan used to give the appearance of uniform 12.5' side wall. This would give you a larger upstairs room and would lower the height of the stairway.

 

[jpcjguy]

tomroblee - sorry for any confusion. The original thought to using the scissor truss on 1/2 the garage was to keep the overall wall height down. Then I thought "shoot - I am only saving 1.5 feet in wall height - if I go with full 12.5 foot walls, I could attic truss the whole garage and gain a ton more upstairs space" - that thinking is how I went from a reasonble height garage that can accomodate a lift to the the practically 2 story attic truss monster with a complex staircase...
I have also thought of using a raised heel truss on the non scissor side (if I do the scissor/attic truss split) to have a taller upstairs on the one side.
Again - giving 15 feet of upstairs up to save 1.5-2ft of wall height is my dilemma (and trying to determine the true cost increase)


My buddy's garage door does follow the roof line. Here is a pic:

 

[marksland]

I am building a 30 x 40 garage with half attic trusses and half scissor. I have 12 foot walls under the attic trusses and 18' peak where the scissor trusses are. Attached is a photo showing how we put our stairs...