Truss strength

[Metal]

My wife and I just bought a house with a 2 car detached garage and a 26 x 36 pole barn. The pole barn which was used for horses had 4 stalls, a hay storage area and a closet thing. A friend and I ripped out all the interior dividers to open up the space and it looks completely different! However, I had a question about the center posts that are in it. There are several center posts holding up a header on each side which I believe was only for the stall doors. Am I ok to remove these now or are the trusses that I have not strong enough to handle a snowload? The straps at the top diagonal is very small which really leaves me questions the integrity of it. I would say they measure only 1 x 3 which seems lacking but I'm a metal guy, not wood. If anyone has any insight at all that would be awesome! Also, in one spot (first picture in the top left) it looks as it the 1 x 3 plate was hammered back in at some point because the wood looks fresh next to it. I don't know if that is cause for concern or not. Thanks everyone!

Click for more Pics!

 

[1949 caddyman]

I am no engineer but I think they are needed to hold up the trusses. I dont think they would of used what looks like 4X6 beams if it was just for the stall walls. Also some trusses have a mend plate in the center. I think they would be one piece on a clear span.

 

[davedriveschevys]

Those beams are definitely carrying roof load.
Trusses are under built and over spanned.

 

[Metal]

Those beams are definitely carrying roof load.
Trusses are under built and over spanned.

I kinda feel he same way but it just seems crazy to construct a building and cheap out on the trusses of all things. I really hope it isn't the case but I dont know anything about trusses to say either way.

 

[DekeT]

I am no engineer but I think they are needed to hold up the trusses. I dont think they would of used what looks like 4X6 beams if it was just for the stall walls. Also some trusses have a mend plate in the center. I think they would be one piece on a clear span.

Not at all unusual for a connector plate to appear in the center member of the bottom chord. No lumber is long enough to go full distance and cutting a board to fit just the distance of the center bottom chord is wasteful.

Difficult to tell if the trusses were factory built. I would have guessed that all that lumber underneath was put in to hold doors. BUT, there is no way to tell from the photographs. Find someone local to inspect what is going on.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

Those trusses appear to be 2x4 and spread 4' apart ... I would call in a local engineer to access and recommendations before it snows. You dont want a collapse ...

 

[NUTTSGT]

Not at all unusual for a connector plate to appear in the center member of the bottom chord. No lumber is long enough to go full distance and cutting a board to fit just the distance of the center bottom chord is wasteful.

Difficult to tell if the trusses were factory built. I would have guessed that all that lumber underneath was put in to hold doors. BUT, there is no way to tell from the photographs. Find someone local to inspect what is going on.

I'm with Deke on this one. I think they look like regular trusses that are spanning a 26' bldg.

EXCEPTION : I will give exception to that one truss that looks like somebody wacked it apart, then hacked it back together.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

the trusses look like standard free span 26' trusses, only thing might be is that they are 4' on center.
here is a pic of 27' clear span trusses, they look the same and you can see the metal splice on the bottom chord.........these were 24" on center, from my old house.

 

[Metal]

I just measured and they are 2x4's 48"on center which is a big span between trusses

Mrobins:Mine do look very similar to yours except in 2 areas. One, which you mentioned, is the spacing at 48" and second being the 1x3 or 1x4 straps holding the diagonal to the top board.

Anyone else with a similar setup?

 

[NUTTSGT]

You also have 2x4 purlins between the trusses with plywood sheeting on that. Do you have a metal roof of that thing or is it shingles ?

 

[Metal]

Shingles


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[dlenkewich]

It would be quite of an over kill to put up posts and headers like that for interior walls.

My guess is that was a DIY pole barn, not a factory kit. Looks nice, but i'd bet it needs that support.

 

[Nighttrain]

I would guess that you need those. I did a pole barn with a 24' span and the truss was designed for that span. The ? I have is the low pitch of your roof and a 26' span. You may be able to beef up the header on those two walls and then remove every other post. This would give you more floor space without the post.

 

[PAToyota]

Those saying the 4x4 posts seem awfully big for partition walls haven't been around horses leaning against things...

That said, I never make estimates on the strength of trusses - always hand such things off to a structural engineer or truss manufacturer. Just the slope of the roof and the size of the splice plates changes the whole calculation. Notice that the picture MRobins posts is of a steeper roof pitch.

 

[davedriveschevys]

the trusses look like standard free span 26' trusses, only thing might be is that they are 4' on center.
here is a pic of 27' clear span trusses, they look the same and you can see the metal splice on the bottom chord.........these were 24" on center, from my old house.

Having them on 48 inch centers essentially cuts the designed load capacity in half. The correct truss for this span would look more like the ones on the floor in your pic, with the vertical member at the center.

Also there is no bracing in the attic space, on the cords.

And the OP just posted an outside pic of a shed roof that has been framed on top of one side.

Beams are carrying weight.

 

[PAToyota]

Having them on 48 inch centers essentially cuts the designed load capacity in half.

Actually, it is even less than half. With the wider spacing, you get more rotational force on them and the eccentric load becomes greater.

 

[Sureshot]

I think the building was purpose built for the livestock and the post will need to stay unless you add others or "sister" some in. I have a similiar homebuilt setup with the "trusses" 6' apart. If two horses get scrapping they will bust that post out in an instant.

Maybe you could lose every other post or ?? to make the space more useable.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

Those saying the 4x4 posts seem awfully big for partition walls haven't been around horses leaning against things...

That said, I never make estimates on the strength of trusses - always hand such things off to a structural engineer or truss manufacturer. Just the slope of the roof and the size of the splice plates changes the whole calculation. Notice that the picture MRobins posts is of a steeper roof pitch.

I forgot about that, your right that was a 5/12 pitch

 

[mrobins297aaa]

maybe you could slip in some new trusses in between the old ones so then you would have 24" on center.
i would get someone from the truss company to come out and see what they think, thats what I did not only because I was matching against the existing house but I had some special scissors trusses running in the opposite direction.

 

[wssix99]

Those trusses appear to be 2x4 and spread 4' apart ... I would call in a local engineer to access and recommendations before it snows. You dont want a collapse ...

+1 With that far of a spacing, the posts and beams are probably allowing each truss to carry a higher load. They are also taking load off the walls.

If you were to remove those posts or beams, the trusses could give out or the walls could kick out. Either event... will ruin your day and the barn.

Best to call a licensed engineer in on this one.

 

[brewchief]

I've seen tons of barns around here with trusses spaced 4' apart, most of the time they are the barns with a steel roof however. I've seen a few barns with 5' spacing and a couple with 8' spacing as well.

Aside from that one that looks to have been cut I really doubt the posts and headers were for anything but door/stall supports.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Shingles

Hmmmm, shingles, I think I'd leave those posts unless you can get another truss between them. You also have to consider the extra weight of that shed roof on the right side too.

 

[kbs2244]

That building was built as a horse barn.
They traditionally have a central hall way with the stalls off each side.
So there are always stall wall/doors along the side of the central aisle.

It is very common when building these barns to divide the span into thirds and support the roof across those shortened spans to save costs.

The roofs were never meant to be a clear span from outside wall to outside wall.

 

[camarotoolman]

2nd. on a truss guy. Imo beef up the trusses with plywood gussets (glued & screwed). You could run posts and header on top down the center of it to sapport the roof. How much snow in your area?

 

[Metal]

2nd. on a truss guy. Imo beef up the trusses with plywood gussets (glued & screwed). You could run posts and header on top down the center of it to sapport the roof. How much snow in your area?

unfortunately we can get a lot of snow here in a quick amount of time. It would have to be able to support 3 feet safely

 

[Metal]

Wife and I don't have a lot of money right now considering our recent purchase so I guess the next thing to do is to minimize the amount of columns. I believe I can get away with 2 columns on each side without an issue but how about 1 in the middle? With a doubled or tripled up 2x10? How about a 1/2" steel plate on each side through bolted?

 

[bczygan]

Wife and I don't have a lot of money right now considering our recent purchase so I guess the next thing to do is to minimize the amount of columns. I believe I can get away with 2 columns on each side without an issue but how about 1 in the middle? With a doubled or tripled up 2x10? How about a 1/2" steel plate on each side through bolted?

How about = guessing.

As posted above, you have an agricultural building. Most places they are NOT required to meet any codes for wind and snow loads that dwelling structures would meet. Yours looks like it has site built trusses. The load capabilities are minimal because they are designed to just hold machinery, farm supplies and livestock. That shed roof complicates matters.
When modifying the structure of something like this you can make an educated guess if you have good experience and sound judgement based on years of working with these kind of structures. Or, if you are not that person, you can find someone who is, or you can get a qualified person to do the calculations and determine the member sizes and connection details required. Your choice. The structure can be modified to accomplish anything you desire. But everything costs money. Your comments about not having much money and getting 3' of snow would have me putting in more columns until more money was available. To be more specific, every column and every beam in the existing structure are necessary. Don't remove or modify any of them without calculations.

And a note about metal connector plates on the bottom chords of trusses. The bottom chord at midspan is in tension. Metal is great in tension.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Wife and I don't have a lot of money right now considering our recent purchase so I guess the next thing to do is to minimize the amount of columns. I believe I can get away with 2 columns on each side without an issue but how about 1 in the middle? With a doubled or tripled up 2x10? How about a 1/2" steel plate on each side through bolted?

I think before I tried something like that, I would try to add a truss between two or replace the entire roof.

Now before you start rolling your eyes, does the bldg need new shingles ? That's a large cost of the roof and makes it a wash. If you can have trusses built to match what you have, I'd try that. After the shingles are removed, remove the plywood from one side of the garage, one section at a time and replace 1-2 trusses. Once the trusses are in, replace the plywood and move down to the next section.

 

[Metal]

I think before I tried something like that, I would try to add a truss between two or replace the entire roof.

Now before you start rolling your eyes, does the bldg need new shingles ? That's a large cost of the roof and makes it a wash. If you can have trusses built to match what you have, I'd try that. After the shingles are removed, remove the plywood from one side of the garage, one section at a time and replace 1-2 trusses. Once the trusses are in, replace the plywood and move down to the next section.

Thats just it, the roof isn't in the best condition and will need to be replaced in the next couple of years (shingles and plywood). At that time I would put in all new trusses and be done with it but I can't swing it right now. What I'll probably end up doing is add extra bracing, throw a few extra posts in for the winter and worry about the rest come summer time.

 

[bczygan]

Thats just it, the roof isn't in the best condition and will need to be replaced in the next couple of years (shingles and plywood). At that time I would put in all new trusses and be done with it but I can't swing it right now. What I'll probably end up doing is add extra bracing, throw a few extra posts in for the winter and worry about the rest come summer time.

Roof slope looks too low for shingles (Especially on the shed portion), and also considering the 48"o.c. trusses. I would replace with a metal roof.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Roof slope looks too low for shingles (Especially on the shed portion), and also considering the 48"o.c. trusses. I would replace with a metal roof.

I bet it's a 4/12 pitch, fine for shingles.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Thats just it, the roof isn't in the best condition and will need to be replaced in the next couple of years (shingles and plywood). At that time I would put in all new trusses and be done with it but I can't swing it right now. What I'll probably end up doing is add extra bracing, throw a few extra posts in for the winter and worry about the rest come summer time.

There you go, you have started a plan.

 

[Sureshot]

Sounds like you have a plan in fixing the roof in a few years but tin is cheap. If you tin it now to preserve the roof and save your money for a complete new pole barn may be better.
How good is the concrete, wiring, lighting, footings, windows, doors, etc?
Since you just bought it look for heaving in the winter and spring etc to see if the rest of the structure justifies spending more on it or if it will be cold storage or a barn forever.

 

[bczygan]

The first question that should be asked is what use do you want for this building. What is the reason for removing the structural supports? How open does the space need to be? Properly engineered, you could remove them all. Is that necessary? Do you intend to finish the space and insulate and hang a ceiling? All these factor in to what needs doing. For now, the first priority is keeping the structure intact. That means protecting the structure from water infiltration, and snow loads it won't support. Maybe cover it with tarps, add some temporary columns and keep the snow removed this winter.
Then, you have time to plan and design, save the cash, or borrow it, and then complete the renovations.

 

[383 240z]

For what its worth my 32x40 pole building (in the same geographic region) has 4' spaced 32' span trusses in a 4/12 pitch with shingle roofs, been that way long before I bought it, the shingles are worn to the point that I will be replacing them in the coming spring with metal, only reason is for the look, it matches our home much better. Keith

 

[bad_idea]

If it were me.... I would keep an eye on it just as it is for the winter. See what it does. In the mean time I would find an engineer. It is good to know people. I am sure you know someone who knows someone. In the spring I would have my new friend come out and look at it. Go from there. I myself am not knowledgeable enough to make structural decisions like that. I also wouldn't trust any arm chair engineers on the internet, no offense guys.

In the mean time, start using the structure for whatever hobbies you have planned and see how bad it is to work around the posts. Jack Olsen has a post or two in his shop and it hasn't slowed him down any.