tubing bender anchoring

[Doc1976]

Hey guy's new to the forum and I have a question. Just picked up a JD2 model 3 tubing bender and stand. Trying to figure out the best way to anchor it to the floor. I'm working in a standard 3 car garage, 4" concrete slab, non post-tensioned. My bender pedestal is drill for 5/8 anchoring bolts. So I am looking for the best way to anchor it. I originally wanted to use an epoxy female sleeve so I could remove the bender without having studs sticking up causing a trip hazard, but with the cost of those anchors and the depth of embedment needed, they wont work. reading on the internet about standard wedge anchors it sounds like they fail pretty often. I thought epoxy with some B7 all thread would be the way to go, nut in reading the epoxy ratings like Simpson SET-XP, they only recommend max 30 lbs of torque on the attaching nuts. Hell, even the really epensive MKT female anchors only call for max 18 ftlbs. That wont be anywhere close to being tight enough to hold down this bender.

So what have you guys used? I don't want to have to do the job twice, and dont want to double the cost of this bender in anchors. I am also not interested in adding the hydraulic ram to reduce torque on the pedestal. Help is greatly appreciated.

Doc

 

[metalmagpie]

Keep in mind bolts securing a bender to the floor primarily need to resist lateral forces. Anchors that fail are likely to be pulled straight out.

How much could six female anchors cost compared to the cost of that bender?

metalmagpie

 

[Doc1976]

Keep in mind bolts securing a bender to the floor primarily need to resist lateral forces. Anchors that fail are likely to be pulled straight out.

How much could six female anchors cost compared to the cost of that bender?

metalmagpie

anchors are over $30 each. plus the cost of adhesive. totally understand about anchors failing by pullout, but my concern is that If I can only tighten the nuts to secure the bender to 30 lbs, that thing is never going to stay tight.

 

[dv8customs]

I had the same issue as you and decided to go with a vertical mount. I have only run into one instance where I didn't have the ceiling height I needed to make a bend so I had to lay it down.

The $120 you would spend on anchors can buy the ram with money left over.

 

[Attackcammel]

At one point I had coupling nuts welded to a brake rotor that I poured into a concrete base in my backyard. I wouldn't worry about the wedge anchors coming out on you. After getting sick and tired of taking the gander apart every night to take it inside I built a vertical mount kind of like the post above I'll never go back to pulling on that handle

 

[R5P7Duster]

Mines on wheels, as well. If I need to bend something large I just go in the driveway.

I'd recommend mounting it vertical.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[jubilee]

I put mine outside the back door of garage in the dirt. Dug a 2' hole with posthole diggers. Had a 8" piece of 2 1/2" square tubing laying around and welded 2' of junk to the bottom of it being careful not to exceed diameter of post hole. Cemented this into posthole. Welded 2" square tubing onto bottom of bender. Just slip it in like a receiver hitch when I need bender. Cost to me was 1 bag of quickrete. $4.

 

[matt_i]

Here is where I would put the lathe to use.

I would attempt to buy a piece of DOM tubing about 1" OD since that's around the largest SDS bit you can buy without going to coring. I'd make the pieces 4" long and spiral point-tap the ID after it was sized with a drill to finish off the pilot. On the OD I would cut either something like a "scratch" 20 tpi thread or use the parting tool to put little square recesses, shallow, in the OD...to give the epoxy more place to grip.

So when you epoxy these anchors in, you have the max embedment, most surface area for the most resistance to tightening torque, longest anchor possible, etc.

I feel like you could still go with "purchased" drop-in anchors, just have to keep them as close to the surface as possible for translating the bender reaction torque into shear on the fasteners.

One of the biggest issues is by using the max anchor size relative to the clearance holes in the baseplate, is there is no room for error in the layout. Concrete drills aren't as exacting as wood or metal, in relation to maintaining the hole centerline dimensions. So you should anticipate the need to potentially drill out one or more holes in the steel mounting base to say 3/4". If you can't stomach that mod to your bender then I suggest downsizing to 1/2-13 anchors...

 

[Doc1976]

Here is where I would put the lathe to use.

I would attempt to buy a piece of DOM tubing about 1" OD since that's around the largest SDS bit you can buy without going to coring. I'd make the pieces 4" long and spiral point-tap the ID after it was sized with a drill to finish off the pilot. On the OD I would cut either something like a "scratch" 20 tpi thread or use the parting tool to put little square recesses, shallow, in the OD...to give the epoxy more place to grip.

So when you epoxy these anchors in, you have the max embedment, most surface area for the most resistance to tightening torque, longest anchor possible, etc.

I feel like you could still go with "purchased" drop-in anchors, just have to keep them as close to the surface as possible for translating the bender reaction torque into shear on the fasteners.

One of the biggest issues is by using the max anchor size relative to the clearance holes in the baseplate, is there is no room for error in the layout. Concrete drills aren't as exacting as wood or metal, in relation to maintaining the hole centerline dimensions. So you should anticipate the need to potentially drill out one or more holes in the steel mounting base to say 3/4". If you can't stomach that mod to your bender then I suggest downsizing to 1/2-13 anchors...

unfortunately, I do not have access to a lathe......yet. One thought I had was to use a coupler nut. on the bottom end thread a 1"-2" bolt into into the nut a few threads and weld it. and us that as the anchor to epoxy in. The only problem is that a 5/8 coupler nut is like 1-1/8 diameter, so the hole needed to drill would be 1-1/4. too big for a regular concrete bit. I suppose I could drop down to a 1/2 size, but I feel more comfortable with 5/8.

I'm not sure if I like idea of mounting/using the bender in a vertical position. I am leaning toward going with wedge anchors. I feel the pullout values are plenty strong enough, 5/8 are to be torqued to 90lbs, which is plenty i think. I just want to find the shear values, but I think at 5/8 its should be good.

 

[matt_i]

You could always freehand grind the (hex??) coupling nut back to a round-ish shape. It doesn't have to be perfectly round. While at it you could "scar" the surface lightly with a cutoff disk to improve "tooth". The epoxy will not care.

Or, beg, borrow or beer a favor from a friend with a lathe to turn those coupling nuts round between centers.

 

[Doc1976]

the idea of the coupler nut was to have the hex shape provide strength to give some good torque to tighten it down, and the bolt on the bottom to give strength against the anchor pulling out.

 

[metalmagpie]

I just went through this with my Hossfeld. I wound up buying 5 Simpson Strong-Tie drop-in anchors for 5/8-11 bolts. Bought those on ebay for about $11 shipped, obviously the tail end of somebody's 25 pack. I also bought the setting tool for another few bucks, forget how much. I bought a 7/8" hammerdrill bit at HD. Then I just put some tape on the bit, drilled my 4 holes to depth, cleaned out the holes with a vacuum, tapped the anchors in, and set the wedges with the tool. I used an 18 pound sledgehammer for the last part. I use some stainless socket head cap screws to bolt my bender in place. When I'm done bending, I pull the bolts and put in set screws screwed down to flush, and put the bender away.

If these drop-in anchors ever fail (doesn't look likely at this point) I'll just try again some other way. But for now I'm set.

metalmagpie

<img src="http://nwnative.us/Grant/images/temp/stand1stPassDone.jpg">

 

[Doc1976]

I ended up just going with wedge anchors on mine. If I remember they called for around 85 ft lbs, and that thing is solid.

 

[AMCguy]

I just mount mine to my welding table when I want to use it. When not in use, it sits in a cabinet under my workbench.

Have you considered just mounting your stand to a wheeled cart or platform? Then you can work with it anywhere. It won't move around if you mount it in such a way as to be able to push against it with you foot or stand on it as you pull.

Or how about building a wide base for your stand and secure it to your truck hitch receiver with a short length of 2''x2'' tubing.

Glenn

 

[Doc1976]

I just mount mine to my welding table when I want to use it. When not in use, it sits in a cabinet under my workbench.

Have you considered just mounting your stand to a wheeled cart or platform? Then you can work with it anywhere. It won't move around if you mount it in such a way as to be able to push against it with you foot or stand on it as you pull.

Or how about building a wide base for your stand and secure it to your truck hitch receiver with a short length of 2''x2'' tubing.

Glenn

I had thought about all those options. with a rolling stand, it's just too difficult to put the force required on the base with one foot while pulling with both arms on the handle while balancing your body with the other foot while reading the degree wheel. With the hitch mount, it's too difficult to accurately perform compound bends. You need a solid perfectly level mount.

 

[RWorth]

I use the wedge type nuts as well, it's mounted in the middle of my shop so I have to remove it. Haven't had a failure yet.

 

[astroracer]

I used lead anchors. less then 2 bucks apiece back in the day. They worked just fine with no instability at all. I bent a lot of tubing using those anchors. When not in use I thread a short bolt into them. I found an old pic of the stand I built out of a discarded diving board stand and a piece of sewer pipe...

And, just to mention, I haven't used them in years. I built a vertical stand for my bender that rolls anywhere I need it. Air/hydraulic cylinder and it easily bends 1 3/4 x 1/8th wall DOM.

Here it is in the middle of the shop doing it's thing with 1 1/4" 4140 for a stab bar build.

This is the best thing you could do to make your bender usable...
Mark

 

[Bretny]

Man you guys are old school with mounting the benders. I built a hyd ram attachment for mine almost 10yrs ago.
Its just a piece of 2in square tube with two flat plates welded on one end. You use the long 12ton ram from HF. They can be used vertical or horizontal or any where in between.

 

[carryallman]

if you got a big heavy car/truck use a 2" hitch reciever & fab up a mount off it ! you can manuver it anywhere in you drive way bend stock !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Here is how I solved a similar problem. Break a hole in the floor, in the OPs case it has to be it has to be big enough to hold all of the fasteners. Vacuum out the debris in the hole so that it is at least 6" deep and goes slightly under the floor. Use a piece of cardboard as a template for the holes in the mounting plate.

You don't want studs sticking out of the floor, but what you need is threaded insert !! Use a coupling nut on the end of a 6" long 5/8" bolt. Use short bolts placed through the top of the cardboard to attach the coupling nut and long bolts to the bottom. Fill the hole with anchoring cement and then press the cardboard with the long bolts protruding out the bottom until the coupling nuts are flush with the top of the anchoring cement.

 

[bullnerd]

Congrats on the new bender Doc.

Just curious, why are you against hydro? The harbor fright setup is cheap and will solve all your problems.

How about a piece of hitch tube in the floor? Like everyone adds to their benches....but in the floor.

 

[raferguson]

I don't use my Hossfeld bender very often, and did not want to dedicate the floor space. I decided to make up a system that plugs into the 2 inch by 2 inch receiver hitch on my truck. I am giving up a bit of rigidity in that system, but no way will I be able to move the truck, or bend the receiver hitch. For occasional use, a decent system.

Richard

 

[Graham08]

I just went through this with my Hossfeld. I wound up buying 5 Simpson Strong-Tie drop-in anchors for 5/8-11 bolts. Bought those on ebay for about $11 shipped, obviously the tail end of somebody's 25 pack. I also bought the setting tool for another few bucks, forget how much. I bought a 7/8" hammerdrill bit at HD. Then I just put some tape on the bit, drilled my 4 holes to depth, cleaned out the holes with a vacuum, tapped the anchors in, and set the wedges with the tool. I used an 18 pound sledgehammer for the last part. I use some stainless socket head cap screws to bolt my bender in place. When I'm done bending, I pull the bolts and put in set screws screwed down to flush, and put the bender away.

If these drop-in anchors ever fail (doesn't look likely at this point) I'll just try again some other way. But for now I'm set.

metalmagpie

That's a great looking stand for your Hossfeld...I like the organization for the pins and tooling. There is a lot more of that stuff with the Hossfeld than many of the other benders.

 

[brownbagg]

just use redhead. $1.85 a piece

 

[Lelandwelds]

I am listing after a Rogue. I like the clamping method better.

Another vote for wedge anchors.

 

[metalmagpie]

That's a great looking stand for your Hossfeld...I like the organization for the pins and tooling. There is a lot more of that stuff with the Hossfeld than many of the other benders.

Thanks! I'm hoping to someday fill up the other 3 sides of my stand with tooling too.

BTW the materials for that stand were 100% scrounged. Half inch plate top and bottom, 8x12x3/8" rectangular tube for the column, stainless 5/8-11 socket head cap screws, some old pipe and some 3/4" studs from someone's giant mill clamping set. Didn't pay a dime for any of it.

metalmagpie

 

[1500hd]

Powers brand drop in steel expansion anchor is what you should use. If you remove the bender just install some shorter bolts to keep the anchors clean.

 

[ArkTinkerer]

I'm getting drawings and materials ready for my garage build. I would like to do a couple square insets (like trailer hitch receivers) that I can use for work stations for holding metal forming or work holding assemblies. I was thinking about doing them like the pull-pots with rebar extending out for a couple feet on four sides. But I got to thinking--for metal forming I may be beating on these things for years. Would it be a good idea to weld a brake rotor on the bottom (or do a cutout and weld it on the top??) as well? This would give me a larger surface area to spread the load from the hammer blows. The slab is going to be 6" thick. Am I over thinking/overbuilding this?

 

[iagsxr]

My first JD2 bender in our old shop was held down with 3/8" lag anchors. Made hundreds of bends in 1 3/4" x .095 tubing that way. It's rotational force, not pullout.

 

[RVDan]

What's wrong with just drilling some holes and dropping some 5/8 coupling nuts in and holding them with epoxy?

 

[strength_and_power]

The Titan concrete anchors would be my choice. Basically a Tapcon that uses traditional sizes for the pilot holes. 3/8” , 1/2”, 5/8” etc. the first 3-4 threads are serrated and they cut their own threads into the concrete. I’ve anchored hundreds if not thousands of safes with them and been out to many locations to replace the safe after thieves have beat the snot out of the safe to get it open and the anchors have been fine. Pretty sure I’ve seen them at HD, I know McMaster Carr sells them or just message me and I will send you a half dozen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[metalmagpie]

What's wrong with just drilling some holes and dropping some 5/8 coupling nuts in and holding them with epoxy?

Nothing. But they're made of cheap weak steel as is cheap allthread. They make epoxy-in anchors which are stronger steel and cost about the same.