Turning main gas off

[RG5400]

Hey guys got a question. I am installing a Mr. heater 45k in the garage and i am taping in the gas line that runs to my water heater also, my question is when i shut the Main gas line off to the house to hook up my new line in the garage when i turn it back on will i have to do anything as far as purging the line or just turn it on and go? I know that after I turn off the main there will still be gas in the line but it wont be under pressure.

thanks

 

[rlitman]

Purging at the water heater, probably not, but you will have to re-light the pilot.
At the new end of the line for the heater, I would open up the union between the heater and the valve, close that valve, and turn on the gas main. Then you can open the valve, and purge out the open union, until you smell gas (don't be dumb and put your nose on the pipe here), and shut the valve. Then let the gas smell fully dissipate before closing the union. Finally, open the valve, and do your bubble leak checks one more time.

 

[RG5400]

Great, thanks rlitman
ya I thought that is what i could do and your right on the nose thing
you can smell it with out doing that.

again thanks for the quick reply.
bubble check a must.

 

[gt40mkii]

This is why I try to have a valve at each service location -- so I don't have to shut off the entire supply when I have to disconnect an appliance.

The down-side is you have to be careful working around them. I was moving our electric dryer around in the utility room when suddenly I smelled gas. Yep -- I'd bumped the valve and cracked it open. A couple of minutes with a drill and safety wire and the valve's lever is it's well-secured now.

I don't know what the method is these days, but 12 years ago when my house was built, the main gas line was plumbed to a big manifold in the attic. Each individual service is plumbed into a port on the manifold, where there is another shutoff valve for each service run. I can shut it down there too, but I generally don't. Its far easier to shut it off at the appliance.

 

[RG5400]

my main line is right at the main meter on the side of the house and runs right over to the water heater, of course it has a valve there. I am just going to tee off of that pipe and go up about 4 ft and a 90 with another valve for the heater and flex line to the heater.

 

[rlitman]

This is why I try to have a valve at each service location -- so I don't have to shut off the entire supply when I have to disconnect an appliance.

Yup. If you're going through the work of teeing into the line somewhere, just add another tee, put a valve on that, and cap the other end of the valve (so you don't need the safety wire). It makes future modifications much easier.

 

[gt40mkii]

Yup. If you're going through the work of teeing into the line somewhere, just add another tee, put a valve on that, and cap the other end of the valve (so you don't need the safety wire). It makes future modifications much easier.

the cap makes much more sense, but I didn't want to take the time to run to the store for a cap when we were *that* close to finishing up (I'd been installing cabinetry in the utility room and The Wife was anxious to get everything buttoned up. Getting the washer and dryer back into place was the last bit.) So instead of a 30 minute trip to the store, I went to the garage and grabbed my drill and safety-wiring kit. We plan on getting a gas dryer as soon as the electric one dies, so this should be a temporary solution (Damned Kenmore appliances will not die!)

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Let me just throw this in there...

If you are talking about the meter valve that is between the gas line coming out of the ground and the service regulator (before the gas gets to the meter) you should not mess with it. That valve belongs to the gas company. Call them before you touch it. Various federal regulations apply.

Phil

 

[red]

the cap makes much more sense, but I didn't want to take the time to run to the store for a cap when we were *that* close to finishing up (I'd been installing cabinetry in the utility room and The Wife was anxious to get everything buttoned up. Getting the washer and dryer back into place was the last bit.) So instead of a 30 minute trip to the store, I went to the garage and grabbed my drill and safety-wiring kit. We plan on getting a gas dryer as soon as the electric one dies, so this should be a temporary solution (Damned Kenmore appliances will not die!)

Personally, I would not be able to sleep at night having a line that is not capped. Please CAP it. You can't smell gas while you're sleeping.

 

[Milton Shaw]

I was in a house working on an electric dryer and saw an uncapped gas line behind the dryer. The shutoff valve was about 10 feet away next to the stairs. The house had a 5 and 8 year old boy running loose in the basement. I did bring that to the woman's attention. She chased the boys out of the basement until her husband could come home and cap it off. (I didn't have cap with me). Check and make sure you don't have any uncapped lines anywhere either.

 

[casetractorfarmer]

Be careful bleading the gas line by opening a cap you may trip a excess flow valve in the line and need to have the gas company come out to reset it

 

[BillK]

And dont forget the permit, which I am certain is needed to do this type of work, at least it is in our area.

 

[472scout]

personally, i would not be able to sleep at night having a line that is not capped. Please cap it. You can't smell gas while you're sleeping.

x100

 

[dave67fd]

And dont forget the permit, which I am certain is needed to do this type of work, at least it is in our area.

Many people here on GJ don't seem to think they need one. If for some localities that don't require them, which are far and few between, NFPA guidlines still need to be adhered to. Regardless, many inspectors don't know the difference between a gas and water or air shut-off valve.

Once your heater is installed have your gas supplier check/set line and manifold pressures

 

[Socophreak]

Personally, I would not be able to sleep at night having a line that is not capped. Please CAP it. You can't smell gas while you're sleeping.

A little bit of wire will hold it from being fully open, but most likely will be able to be cracked open just enough. Regardless if it holds it tight or not, a cap will ensure an air tight seal.

 

[RG5400]

Let me just throw this in there...

If you are talking about the meter valve that is between the gas line coming out of the ground and the service regulator (before the gas gets to the meter) you should not mess with it. That valve belongs to the gas company. Call them before you touch it. Various federal regulations apply.

Phil

so Phil your saying the line coming to the meter to shut gas off at the meter I should not touch?? well then how will I turn the gas off??

all I am doing is there is a line going to the water heater and it sticks out the wall about 5" and it has a valve and then a flex line to the water heater, I am going to take the valve off then I have a pipe with male threads and I am going to put a tee there and then the valve back to the water heater, then the tee going up about 4 to 5' with a 90 and another valve for the heater, from the valve will be a flex line going to the heater, but I have to shut the gas off before I disconnect the valve from the pipe coming out of the wall.

Ron

 

[BillK]

so Phil your saying the line coming to the meter to shut gas off at the meter I should not touch?? well then how will I turn the gas off??

Not Phil, but in my area, you get a permit, call a licensed plumber and they do it. The gas company comes out and inspects the job and if the line pressure tests ok, they will turn the gas back on.

Do you have the equipment to pressure test the line after you do your work ? Are you sure that it is large enough to handle the extra flow that the heater will require ?

Anything up to and including the meter is the property of the utility. Same goes for electric.

Natural gas is pretty safe if installed correctly, but one little mistake and you can lose everything and if the job was not done with a permit there is the possibility that your insurance will not cover it.

 

[RG5400]

OK Bill ya got me thinking now. leave the job for the pro's, its not worth saving a buck or three. I got way to much high $$$ stuff in the garage.

Thanks for the real way to do it info.

Ron

 

[HoosierBuddy]

so Phil your saying the line coming to the meter to shut gas off at the meter I should not touch?? well then how will I turn the gas off??

all I am doing is there is a line going to the water heater and it sticks out the wall about 5" and it has a valve and then a flex line to the water heater, I am going to take the valve off then I have a pipe with male threads and I am going to put a tee there and then the valve back to the water heater, then the tee going up about 4 to 5' with a 90 and another valve for the heater, from the valve will be a flex line going to the heater, but I have to shut the gas off before I disconnect the valve from the pipe coming out of the wall.

Ron

The best thing BY FAR is to have your own shut off valves on the outlet side of the meter, that way you can do whatever you want to do with them.

However, any valve that belongs to the gas company falls under CFR192 as well as any state regulations that apply AND homeowners should absolutely not turn that valve. If you need it off, you should call the gas company. If you don't believe me ASK THEM.

In my state, anytime that valve goes off, a whole procedure must be followed before it can be turned back on including verifying the customer piping is pressure tight (either by pressure testing the lines or by "clocking" the meter). The person doing that work has to be "Qualified" by training and performance, be in a certified Drug Testing Program, etc., etc., etc, or the utility is in violation of federal regulations and can be cited for that.

So...I don't care if you only need to shut that valve off for 15 minutes. It's not your valve...and there's no way your gas company will let you turn off THIER valve because PHMSA says they can't.

Phil

 

[gt40mkii]

FIY, any time the gas company turns off service, for ANY reason, they have to do a full inspection before they will reestablish service. That bit me once when I was house-sitting, just out of college. The owner had them shut off service to replace the range. Before they would turn the gas back on, they inspected EVERYTHING and wouldn't turn the gas back on until a couple of code violations had been addressed: Copper pipe was used to plumb a bathroom heater (no longer allowed -- must be iron pipe,) and the flue for the water heater had to be replaced with a double-walled one. THEN they did a pressure test -- charge it to at least 50psi. It can't drop more than a specified amount of pressure over 24 hours.

So be warned. Once the gas company gets involved, things can get complicated.

 

[RG5400]

Well I guess I'm not going to touch that valve, makes sense to me.

thanks guys for all the help, you saved me im sure, although its not that hard to do. I just want it done right.

 

[RG5400]

Again thanks guys for the info, sure glad I came here first.
safety is a big issue here,

 

[dave67fd]

I'm glad to hear you choose the proper route. So many will fight tooth and nail to do it themselves and disregard any safety info.

I spent over a year researching NFPA and my town/state codes. I also have plenty of experience with cutting/threading hanging pipe as i had plans to do it myself. I found out (last but not least) that my town requires a licensed facility to pull my permit.

 

[RG5400]

I'm glad to hear you choose the proper route. So many will fight tooth and nail to do it themselves and disregard any safety info.

I spent over a year researching NFPA and my town/state codes. I also have plenty of experience with cutting/threading hanging pipe as i had plans to do it myself. I found out (last but not least) that my town requires a licensed facility to pull my permit.

well there are times you can save a buck or two but doing this really inst the time, I got over 150K in hot rods in this garage and there is no need to cut corners, Its going to be be real easy for the plumber so it shouldn't hurt that bad.

Thanks again for convincing me to do it this way, Im sure my way would of worked but the insurance thing scared the hell out of me, that's all i need is to have a fire or something bad like that and my Insurance guy tell me Ron I am sorry but you forgot to pull a permit on that heater and looks like you did it yourself so sorry.