NightSky
Well-known member
I see... ChatGPT pulled me aside and explained that "2 phase" is industry terminology for old technology where the generating plant produced two phases 90 deg apart.
Two circuits on one double receptacle?
- Thread starter OldSchool500
- Start date
Just Puttering
Well-known member
Kitchen outlets are often wired with the top and bottom half on separate breakers. As noted above, the two breakers must be pinned together. Should be just fine for the shop.
Never seen that in any kitchen I've been in
Codyboy
Well-known member
Why would someone do that?
Sounds dumb.
LopezBart
Well-known member
Because kitchen appliances often draw enough power that two cannot be operated on a single circuit - waffle irons, toasters, etc... this sort of design allows kitchens w/ limited space for receptacles to function properly.
Just Puttering
Well-known member
In small apartment galley kitchens it’s great to run the air fryer in the top, and the kettle in the bottom without blowing breaker. Maybe just a British Columbia code thing.
It was required by Canadian code for a long time, I’ve been told here.
I’ve seen it in the us, but that was in a EE’s kitchen, so it’s entirely possible he did it himself. He certainly did the 30a 240 counter top outlet. (For a proper electric kettle.).
Not sure if I've ever been in a Canadian kitchen, maybe that's why
"splits " was the common Canadian term and used in all kitchen outlets that were serving countertops , tables, islands etc (anything other than dedicated fridge, built in microwace etc_) . that changed when we adopted GFCI and the circuits are now 20 amp. but the splits was actually a better set up in my opinion , because you would never blow a circuit by overloading it whereas with a 20 amp, it is easily done
After our kitchen remodel a couple years ago I could no longer use a GFCI outlet in our island as the first receptacle in that circuit was now in the appliance garage for the microwave, and the 2nd outlet on the end of the island. My local box store only had a 15A Eaton type CH GFCI breaker in stock the day I was doing this. The wiring was all #12, I figured it would be fine as there were only two outlets.
Fast forward a couple months, my lady has the electric griddle going on the island cooking up some pancakes, and tosses some sausage in the microwave and click, the breaker trips. Testing with my amp clamp that microwave draws 10A and the griddle draws 8A. So off to the electrical supply house to get the correct 20A GFCI breaker and all is well.
Some appliances are hungry!
Fast forward a couple months, my lady has the electric griddle going on the island cooking up some pancakes, and tosses some sausage in the microwave and click, the breaker trips. Testing with my amp clamp that microwave draws 10A and the griddle draws 8A. So off to the electrical supply house to get the correct 20A GFCI breaker and all is well.
Some appliances are hungry!
micromind
Well-known member
This is why code requires kitchen outlets to be on 20 amp circuits.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
for the dishwasher/garbage disposal yes, but ive never seen that done for the small appliance countertop receptacles...
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
I doubt a 20a breaker wouldve held with a microwave and griddle running at the same time...
sparky 1971
Well-known member
I built a house in 2006 and went overboard in the kitchen: 11 countertop receptacles, each one being it's own 20 amp circuit. Add the dishwasher/disposal, microwave, and fridge and it was up to 14 total. All I ever plugged in was a knife sharpener and occasionally a griddle for pancakes. Fast forward 1-1/2 years and I got married, she came from a farmhouse where it was a **** shoot whether the coffee pot would work without tripping. My dumb *** told her that will no longer be an issue, I had it fool proofed. I came home one night to her apologizing because she'd broken something and "nothing" in the kitchen worked. I walked in and saw the coffee pot and toaster plugged into the same outlet. The other 10 circuits were fine, she just didn't try them. After explaining what happened to her, she called me out on having it foolproofed. I told her it was foolproofed, but to idiot proof it would be next to impossible. I don't remember much of the rest of the evening.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
I would but I don't live there anymore. It took 11 years of nagging before it happened but I finally gave in and bought the house in the country with 10 acres and a pond.Change each to single recepts!Then you can go back and tell of your accomplishment. Dare ya!!!
I did last weekend, also works the electric wok and microwave simultaneously!
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
you have FPE or shitsco (zinsco) breakers?
Metal-Marc
Well-known member
If the load is not equal, it does not add up, it substracts, so the load is never more than 20A.
Short excursions above 20a aren’t going to trip most breakers. So even if his appliances are just over 20a, I doubt he will have nuisance tripping.
A QO or HOM 20a breaker will supply 30a for at least 30 seconds and perhaps as long as 120 seconds before it trips, depending on lots of factors. That’s according to Schneider’s trip curve; the nema standard allows twice the rated current for 6 or 7 minutes. The magnetic trip isn’t hit until about 10 times current. (That’s all from memory, so I may be slightly off on the numbers, but that’s the general shape of the curve)
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
magnetic trip mechanism is for short circuits and ground faults not overcurrents.
