Two Post vs. Four Post Lift
- Thread starter Richard D
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Crusty Nut
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2008
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- 475
Plus, I like my 4 post for a long adjustable work bench. Also, mine is the extra tall lifting HD9XW and when raised all the way up I have essentially a clear floor. A couple times I've had a car torn apart on it, just raise it all the way up, (which is too high for working on it) and do whatever needs doing on the floor under it. Another plus is it serves as a nice painting rack for small parts. I keep a small army of hooks made out of welding rod. Hook it on the rolling jack track, hang the part and paint away. With 2 18 foot runways you can do a large batch at a time.
I've had my lift for about 4 months so far. I'm sure I will find more uses for it. Can you tell I really like and use my lift a lot? Some of this stuff wouldn't work as well on a 2 post.
I've had my lift for about 4 months so far. I'm sure I will find more uses for it. Can you tell I really like and use my lift a lot? Some of this stuff wouldn't work as well on a 2 post.
saabman
Well-known member
In my home shop, I have a 2 post and a 4 post (both Bendpak). I Tend to use the 4 post for simple jobs (it is faster to get the car loaded) but I do have a rolling jack so on occasion I get in to something more involved. 2 Post is where my more serious work takes place. NB a rolling jack has lift pads similar to a 2 post lift, but you can raise the 4 post lift to a comfortable height before adjusting the pads.
In winter, I store vehicles raised on both lifts. More risk flat spotting tires on the 4 than on the 2, but the suspension is at full droop on the 2 post.
4 post is more in the way. I store it lowered and the ramps are big and obstruct the floor. I now have the HD-9XW so I could store it raised, but without the extra height elevated ramps are at the perfect height to hit my head. Keep in mind the cross beams (fore and aft) are lower than the ramps.
In winter, I store vehicles raised on both lifts. More risk flat spotting tires on the 4 than on the 2, but the suspension is at full droop on the 2 post.
4 post is more in the way. I store it lowered and the ramps are big and obstruct the floor. I now have the HD-9XW so I could store it raised, but without the extra height elevated ramps are at the perfect height to hit my head. Keep in mind the cross beams (fore and aft) are lower than the ramps.
This is what I'm planning for my garage. How close are your two lifts and how wide is your garage? Do you think it would be comfortable, or too crowded, with the 2 lifts side by side in a 24 foot wide garage? Any pictures?
torquepower85
Well-known member
To sum it up: A 4-Post can do anything a 2-Post can do AND MORE... (If you fork over an EXTRA 1000$+ for bridge jacks)
When stock, both have their pros and cons.
When stock, both have their pros and cons.
saabman
Well-known member
Sublimate, my shop is 36 feet wide, and I have about 7 feet between the two. I think you will be very tight in 24 feet and you should not plan on any storage on the outside of either lift.
In this thread you can see one shot of my shop in winter storage mode.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155575&highlight=integrated+dyno
In this thread you can see one shot of my shop in winter storage mode.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155575&highlight=integrated+dyno
dirttracker18
Well-known member
Actually for anything other than a small car tire I find it much easier to pull tires on a four post. Simply lift the vehicle slightly off the ramp and slip the wheel off, the roll to the side ( on the runway ) the lay it under the vehicle.
On a two post you have to lift and lower the wheels yourself. With any modern truck tire that is damn heavy and hard on the back.
boosteddsm92
Well-known member
That doesn't make sense, you know you can stop a 2 post's upward motion at any time, right?
Any reason why you can't "Simply lift the vehicle slightly off the ramp and slip the wheel off, the roll to the side" on a 2 post? Are you telling me all this time I've gotten a vehicle a few inches off the ground and taken the wheels off that I've been doing it wrong?dirttracker18
Well-known member
That doesn't make sense, you know you can stop a 2 post's upward motion at any time, right?
Now you are either hunched over or kneeling. Not to mention you have to run your lift up and down to make your version work. Still way easier on a four post.
Makes total sense. Having worked as a tech I speak from experience. I am not saying a two post did not have its place but I worked on the four post about 90% of the time, and I had a choice.
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boosteddsm92
Well-known member
I should take a step back as I'm only a DIY'er. To each their own, I have both and my go to is the 2 post. Granted, I don't have bridge jacks but I do have the trays, I may get a few bottle jacks to see what the hype is about (although I'm sure messing with a few bottle jacks is more of a PITA than using bridge jacks). I will only really work on my 4 post if I'm doing an oil change and the vehicle is already sitting on it. What it really comes down to is personal preference and cost (a 4 post w/bridge jacks is WAY more expensive than a 2 post). Another factor is if speed is a consideration. I'm sure I care way less about how long it takes to get a vehicle on/off lifts compared to a pro/business environment.
dirttracker18
Well-known member
A good air over hydraulic bridge jack will change your opinion of a four post.
For certain this changes the game not only for use but cost. This is where the four post falls short, cost for a good setup.
Downfall of the four post is cost for a full setup, space,dropping engines and lifting cabs/bodies. Other than those there is nothing a two post is better for.
Many pros and cons and one really needs to think all considerations through.
I have both a two post and 4 post in a commercial setting.
We use the 2 post a lot for brakes/suspension, but the 4 post is very valuable for under body work. We did a transmission recently on a 4x4 Blazer on the 2 post, very unstable.
A 4 post even with bridge jacks you can't remove the engine/transmssion/cradle like you can with a 2 post, but over all a 4 post is much much safer. THey are also nice if you need to drive the car alot to test something then look underneath. Some vehicles you will spend quite a while on a 2 post trying to safely lift (a lot of trucks, cars with rusted under bodies). Exhaust on a 4 post is also easier as the suspension is already loaded so you don't have to worry about how your exhaust will sit when everything is compressed like you do on a 2 post.
We use the 2 post a lot for brakes/suspension, but the 4 post is very valuable for under body work. We did a transmission recently on a 4x4 Blazer on the 2 post, very unstable.
A 4 post even with bridge jacks you can't remove the engine/transmssion/cradle like you can with a 2 post, but over all a 4 post is much much safer. THey are also nice if you need to drive the car alot to test something then look underneath. Some vehicles you will spend quite a while on a 2 post trying to safely lift (a lot of trucks, cars with rusted under bodies). Exhaust on a 4 post is also easier as the suspension is already loaded so you don't have to worry about how your exhaust will sit when everything is compressed like you do on a 2 post.
Bad Hammer
Well-known member
......................................
This is one of those subjects that can, and probably will, be debated forever.
I have never been a mechanic, but I do have some experience with lifts....to a degree.
My ex's father owned and ran two shops for more than 35 years.
Each shop had a 4 post lift, while one had three 2 posts and the other had two 2 posts.
I spent a fair amount of time at one shop or the other, and had liberty to use the lifts whenever they were available.
As best that I can recall none of the regular mechanics used the 4 post lifts much, other than for alignment and front end stuff, and oil changes.
But the 2 post lifts were in use regularly.
Now this may have totally been due to personal preference, or some other reason: but they also had a choice, and they didn't seem to like the 4 post lifts all that much.
They seemed to think that the 4 post was too restrictive.
So I'd wager it's like a lot of other endless debates, and it's simply a matter of preference.
Just my opinion.
dirttracker18
Well-known member
Totally agree, personal preference.
I just hate to see someone pose the question and then have people run down the four post as useless or close to it.
I just hate to see someone pose the question and then have people run down the four post as useless or close to it.
ersatzs2
Well-known member
Then of course there is the single post solution... All the drive-on benefits (and suspension access limitations) of a four post with none of the floor space liabilities. Most people on the list aren't man enough to work under one though. http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91671
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torquepower85
Well-known member
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91671
There's so many types of lifts.
Would have mentioned them all but kind of off-topic.cyamaha2007
Well-known member
Reasons i think four posts are inferior for a working shop
1 Its damn near impossible to pull a motor from the bottom fwd or rwd. I like to drop the entire k member/suspension/engine/trans on F bodys ive found this very easy with a 2 post.
2 I use my 2 post to pull cabs and beds off the frame i dont see how that would be possible/safe with a 4 post.
3 if you ever try to wrestle a rear axle out of a pulling truck on a 4 post how would you get a new one in? On a 2 post remove every thing but the u bolts lower it back down till the wheels are touching remove u bolts, lift the truck up a foot, roll new rear axle in, bolt the u bolts back up, lift to comfortable height and re connect all misc hardware.
1 Its damn near impossible to pull a motor from the bottom fwd or rwd. I like to drop the entire k member/suspension/engine/trans on F bodys ive found this very easy with a 2 post.
2 I use my 2 post to pull cabs and beds off the frame i dont see how that would be possible/safe with a 4 post.
3 if you ever try to wrestle a rear axle out of a pulling truck on a 4 post how would you get a new one in? On a 2 post remove every thing but the u bolts lower it back down till the wheels are touching remove u bolts, lift the truck up a foot, roll new rear axle in, bolt the u bolts back up, lift to comfortable height and re connect all misc hardware.
c39er
Well-known member
Leave the doors open (unlatched) on most all older convertibles if using a 2 post to lift them.The bodies and frames flex quite a lot unpon lifting. The door gap opens at least a 1/4" on most. I work on a lot of old cars for a living and this can be a problem with 2 post lifts. The convertible woodies can have the striker plates torn off the pillar because of this situation. Almost did it once.
I prefer the 4 posters with rolling jacks myself for the antique big 18' long cars.
I prefer the 4 posters with rolling jacks myself for the antique big 18' long cars.
kert
Well-known member
I've watched 2 cars slip, but not fall when an inexperienced user set the pads. Makes me nervous anytime I'm under a 2-post. Also, putting stands under a 2-post or significantly changing the weight distribution (e.g. Dropping an axle or engine) would make me nervous. I'll stick with a 4-post and feel safer.
jdub63
Well-known member
My preference was based on mobility. My 4 post Bend-Pak can be moved from one side of the shop to the other using the caster system. A 2 post is bolted into the floor for life. Given my shop floorplan, I needed it to move.
I worked as a technician for 18 years. I used 2 post lifts for 12 of those years working as a Ford transmission tech. The last 6 years I worked as a Land Rover tech using only 4 post lifts. Here's my opinion.
The 2 post lift is easier for under vehicle, brake and suspension work. But to be honest with you the entire time I did not feel as safe being underneath the 2 post lifts. Over the 12 years I've seen a total of 6 vehicles fall off of 2 post lifts ( luckily nobody was hurt). It's especially dangerous with bigger trucks.
I used to be sceptical of 4 post lifts before using them. After using them you will find you can do anything with a 4 post you can do with a two post. I did everything from transmission and engine replacements, suspension work and I even replace a complete Range Rover frame on a 4 post. You just learn how to do things differently if the 4 post lift has two rolling jacks installed on it.
So my opinion. I prefer the safety of the 4 post and I also like the fact you can set your tools on the rack while working on it. If I was chose I'd definitely buy the four post if you have the room.
The 2 post lift is easier for under vehicle, brake and suspension work. But to be honest with you the entire time I did not feel as safe being underneath the 2 post lifts. Over the 12 years I've seen a total of 6 vehicles fall off of 2 post lifts ( luckily nobody was hurt). It's especially dangerous with bigger trucks.
I used to be sceptical of 4 post lifts before using them. After using them you will find you can do anything with a 4 post you can do with a two post. I did everything from transmission and engine replacements, suspension work and I even replace a complete Range Rover frame on a 4 post. You just learn how to do things differently if the 4 post lift has two rolling jacks installed on it.
So my opinion. I prefer the safety of the 4 post and I also like the fact you can set your tools on the rack while working on it. If I was chose I'd definitely buy the four post if you have the room.
I worked as a technician for 18 years. I used 2 post lifts for 12 of those years working as a Ford transmission tech. The last 6 years I worked as a Land Rover tech using only 4 post lifts. Here's my opinion.
The 2 post lift is easier for under vehicle, brake and suspension work. But to be honest with you the entire time I did not feel as safe being underneath the 2 post lifts. Over the 12 years I've seen a total of 6 vehicles fall off of 2 post lifts ( luckily nobody was hurt). It's especially dangerous with bigger trucks.
I used to be sceptical of 4 post lifts before using them. After using them you will find you can do anything with a 4 post you can do with a two post. I did everything from transmission and engine replacements, suspension work and I even replace a complete Range Rover frame on a 4 post. You just learn how to do things differently if the 4 post lift has two rolling jacks installed on it.
So my opinion. I prefer the safety of the 4 post and I also like the fact you can set your tools on the rack while working on it. If I was chose I'd definitely buy the four post if you have the room.
The 2 post lift is easier for under vehicle, brake and suspension work. But to be honest with you the entire time I did not feel as safe being underneath the 2 post lifts. Over the 12 years I've seen a total of 6 vehicles fall off of 2 post lifts ( luckily nobody was hurt). It's especially dangerous with bigger trucks.
I used to be sceptical of 4 post lifts before using them. After using them you will find you can do anything with a 4 post you can do with a two post. I did everything from transmission and engine replacements, suspension work and I even replace a complete Range Rover frame on a 4 post. You just learn how to do things differently if the 4 post lift has two rolling jacks installed on it.
So my opinion. I prefer the safety of the 4 post and I also like the fact you can set your tools on the rack while working on it. If I was chose I'd definitely buy the four post if you have the room.
abstamaria
Well-known member
Horses for courses.
Several here have said it's a matter of personal preference, and I agree with that completely. A debate seems almost pointless. I think what we do and the space available to each of us influence the decision greatly. If you're happy with your two-post or four-post, then good for you.
In my case, a two-post lift seems ideal. I have a low ceiling, and there is at least one two-post lift that would fit. Also, the type of work I do and the cars I work on seemed to me better suited to a two-poster. I like the room when the car is hoisted
In the car above, I have to remove a rear wheel and an inner-fender panel to get to the oil filter, so the two-post allows this easily in one simple lift.
I also like the space around the car provided by a two-post when the car is down:
And I like the fact that the lift doesn't intrude into the workspace very much.
Now, imagine what a four-post lift would have looked like in those photos. Not as suitable, I think.
I have a small home garage and a four-post just would not have worked. (I am envious of the large spaces enjoyed by several of you here. Given that, I would probably have both a two- and a four-post.)
So "horses for courses" seems to be a good answer to the original query here!
Best,
Andy
Several here have said it's a matter of personal preference, and I agree with that completely. A debate seems almost pointless. I think what we do and the space available to each of us influence the decision greatly. If you're happy with your two-post or four-post, then good for you.
In my case, a two-post lift seems ideal. I have a low ceiling, and there is at least one two-post lift that would fit. Also, the type of work I do and the cars I work on seemed to me better suited to a two-poster. I like the room when the car is hoisted
In the car above, I have to remove a rear wheel and an inner-fender panel to get to the oil filter, so the two-post allows this easily in one simple lift.
I also like the space around the car provided by a two-post when the car is down:
And I like the fact that the lift doesn't intrude into the workspace very much.
Now, imagine what a four-post lift would have looked like in those photos. Not as suitable, I think.
I have a small home garage and a four-post just would not have worked. (I am envious of the large spaces enjoyed by several of you here. Given that, I would probably have both a two- and a four-post.)
So "horses for courses" seems to be a good answer to the original query here!
Best,
Andy
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abstamaria
Well-known member
Thanks, Richard. Yes, they are made to be easily removable - note the rollers behind the post. They might work for you, if, like me, you don't have a large space. They are Danmar MaxJax lifts. There are videos on YouTube on them, and there is a long discussion in this forum, discussing installation, pros and cons, and so forth. Here's one link:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35763
I have no connectuion with them. Good luck with your choice.
Andy
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35763
I have no connectuion with them. Good luck with your choice.
Andy
ryno
Well-known member
i have both, and if you come north for the HAMB drags you can play with both at my open house doughnut feed sat am.
they both have there advantages, but one thing i didn't see anyone mention was the fact you said you it was going out side. 2 things to consider here, first elements, 4 post cylinders are under the ramps, on most newer designs, and will be somewhat protected, while a 2 post is exposed, does this really matter? im not sure. if i where you , id contact jeff at bendpak and ask him his professional thoughts.
2nd, what kind of structural pad do you have to anchor too out side? most exterior pads are not very thick or reinforced, especially if you have an older home.
what do you intend to do this a lift, meaning your work? as mentioned suspension is more difficult on the 4 poster. also what range of cars/trucks do you plan on using it for? i have the extra wide versions of both. x frame cars, such as you Rivera are some times hard to get perfect on the 2 post and will require more set up time.
they both have there advantages, but one thing i didn't see anyone mention was the fact you said you it was going out side. 2 things to consider here, first elements, 4 post cylinders are under the ramps, on most newer designs, and will be somewhat protected, while a 2 post is exposed, does this really matter? im not sure. if i where you , id contact jeff at bendpak and ask him his professional thoughts.
2nd, what kind of structural pad do you have to anchor too out side? most exterior pads are not very thick or reinforced, especially if you have an older home.
what do you intend to do this a lift, meaning your work? as mentioned suspension is more difficult on the 4 poster. also what range of cars/trucks do you plan on using it for? i have the extra wide versions of both. x frame cars, such as you Rivera are some times hard to get perfect on the 2 post and will require more set up time.
I will be pouring new concrete, it will be a covered area with a privacy fence all around, so somewhat protected from the elements. may enclose it in the future. The Riviera is probably thr biggest car I will use it on. I don't have a big dually-type truck and doubt I ever will. I plan to embed some steel plate and drill it with my mag drill, then tap the holes. I want to be able to un-bold and remove it occasionally, maybe embed several plates so I can move the posts around. I am just a hobbiest and don't do a lot of work under cars, would use the lift mostly for pulling wheel/tires, brakes, suspension work, etc, which is why I feel the two post would suit me better.
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abstamaria
Well-known member
MaxJax
Richard,
It seems we do the same type of work, so a two-post I think is ideal for you. Just two points:
1. If you get a MaxJax, you can unbolt the columns and wheel them inside, so they need not be exposed to the elements. If you go through the thread in this forum on MaxJax Installs, you will find several use their MaxJaxs outdoors.
2. I don't think the steel plate is necessary. The MaxJax comes woth mechanical anchors that you set into the concrete. You can use epoxy anchors, too, and that may be better if there is some risk the mechanical anchors will corrode outdoors. You screw the mounting bolts into these threaded anchors, which I think will be more secure than tapped holes.
You can order several sets of anchors to allow you to relocate your lift and vary the distance between the posts. This may be useful if the cars you work on range from very wide to very narrow.
What you do need to do is to ensure you have the correct cincrete depth and strength. On all these points, the thread I referred to above will prove invaluable.
Good luck.
Andy
Richard,
It seems we do the same type of work, so a two-post I think is ideal for you. Just two points:
1. If you get a MaxJax, you can unbolt the columns and wheel them inside, so they need not be exposed to the elements. If you go through the thread in this forum on MaxJax Installs, you will find several use their MaxJaxs outdoors.
2. I don't think the steel plate is necessary. The MaxJax comes woth mechanical anchors that you set into the concrete. You can use epoxy anchors, too, and that may be better if there is some risk the mechanical anchors will corrode outdoors. You screw the mounting bolts into these threaded anchors, which I think will be more secure than tapped holes.
You can order several sets of anchors to allow you to relocate your lift and vary the distance between the posts. This may be useful if the cars you work on range from very wide to very narrow.
What you do need to do is to ensure you have the correct cincrete depth and strength. On all these points, the thread I referred to above will prove invaluable.
Good luck.
Andy
I agree, but I wouldn't think the anchors would be stronger than threaded steel plate. Also, with the mag drill, it's easier than drilling and setting anchors. I will be working on at least one wide car('65 Riviera), as well as narrow cars from the '20s and '30s, and motorcycles.
How high do the Maxjax go?
How high do the Maxjax go?
torquepower85
Well-known member
Max Rise (Clearance under Arm): 40"/1016mm
Max Lifting Height (Pad Only): 45"/1143mm
abstamaria
Well-known member
Yes, it doesn't look like the MaxJax is for you, Richard. You can't stand beneath it. I have some comments:
I understand, probably incorrectly, that the nuts typically used with high-strength bolts are matched so that they develop the strength of the bolt. It was also my impression that tapped holes are rarely used in structural steel connections. Using a tapped plate in lieu of a properly matched nut means that thread stripping in the tapped plate may control the connection design. To preclude thread stripping, the plate would have to be much thicker than the corresponding nut. Or so I think.
I think rolled threads on a bolt are stronger than a cut thread (because the grain of the metal is not cut but simply displaced), and am simply applying that logic to formed rather than tapped internal threads. I am not an engineer and know very little about threaded fasteners, so it would be great to be educated here.
I wonder too whether it will be a good idea to imbed a steel plate with tapped holes in an outdoor location, exposed to the elements. Rust and corrosion will be an issue very quickly, unless it is very dry there. I had a helpful discussion with the specialist who installed my lift’s anchors, and he said they would recommend epoxied anchors, preferably studs, where the anchors would be exposed to rain or get wet. That seemed logical to me.
There are some very good accounts of lift installations here; watching them, I get the impression that the columns for full-size two-post lifts are quite heavy. Attaching rollers and moving them around doesn’t seem to be an easy proposition. Particularly if you have to thread them through the narrow alley you mention.
Anyway, I think you've done your research, so best of luck.
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AETD
Well-known member
Over here most workshops have both.
2 pole and 4 pole (or scissor if space is a problem or you do 3D alignment)
i (no pro) have a 4 pole lift and 2 jacks on it. so i have wheels free in no time.
yes i need to use long ramps for lowered cars, but most 2pole arms are also to high for lowered cars.
if i would renew i sure to go for a solution in the floor like this, pure for the poles are out of the way, and the floor is flat when not in use:
just a quick question to the 2pole users; how is your setup if you do wheel alignment?
2 pole and 4 pole (or scissor if space is a problem or you do 3D alignment)
i (no pro) have a 4 pole lift and 2 jacks on it. so i have wheels free in no time.
yes i need to use long ramps for lowered cars, but most 2pole arms are also to high for lowered cars.
if i would renew i sure to go for a solution in the floor like this, pure for the poles are out of the way, and the floor is flat when not in use:
just a quick question to the 2pole users; how is your setup if you do wheel alignment?
abstamaria
Well-known member
AETD, I used to do wheel alignment, bump steer, and corner weight adjustments on the floor, before I installed a two-post lift. I suppose I will do that work the same way. When we poured the epoxy floor, the contractor was supposed to achieve a perfectly flat floor (for setting camber) so I hope he was somewhat successful. I use Longacre gauges and tools principally.
It's a hobby for me.
Andy
It's a hobby for me.
Andy
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