Two Stage Propane Regulator Problem in Cold?

[IONH]

So yesterday my Mr Heater wouldn't fire. It was in the upper 20's *F outside. I brought the tank to be filled and it only took 8 gallons, so I was happy it wasn't empty though unhappy I went to the trouble of bringing it to the fill station. Still would not fire when I got it home and hooked back up.

Today, before pulling apart a line at the disconnect coupler to see if the regualtor was flowing, I thought I'd try it again. Fired right up.

It is just over 50 *F today, do you think the cold impacted the regulator yesterday? Are regulators usually good for colder temperatures? If so, is this a sign my regulator is failing?

 

[Milton Shaw]

Regulators outside can freeze up. There is a small bleed hole on the outside of the regulator that water can collect in and then freeze with the fuel shut off. Thawing out with warmer weather is why its working now. You need to dry the regulator out and then keep it out of the rain. I have one on a gas grill that has done that several times.

 

[nehog]

What size tank?

 

[IONH]

Regulators outside can freeze up. There is a small bleed hole on the outside of the regulator that water can collect in and then freeze with the fuel shut off. Thawing out with warmer weather is why its working now. You need to dry the regulator out and then keep it out of the rain. I have one on a gas grill that has done that several times.

Is that the screen I see on the very end of the regulator?

Could I just put something over it so water can't get in the end?

As a short term solution if this happens again, could I use a heat gun to thaw it out and what is the maximum temperature you would suggest so nothing explodes?

It is a 100# tank.

 

[red dogs]

I couldn't read the capacity of your regulator in the pic,maybe not enough flow. Regulator should be mounted so the vent ( screen ) is down so any moisture will drain out. also could be your tank is too small, not enough wetted surface, or in other words not enough vaporization.

 

[IONH]

I couldn't read the capacity of your regulator in the pic,maybe not enough flow. Regulator should be mounted so the vent ( screen ) is down so any moisture will drain out. also could be your tank is too small, not enough wetted surface, or in other words not enough vaporization.

I don't know the flow rating unfortunately. That blurry picture is the only one I have.

As you can see in the hooked up tank picture, the regulator is mounted horizontally. Do you think I should put some pipe out of the tank so it can face downward?

I'm thinking about taking a small tupaware and cutting it so it can sit over the regulator to at least keep the direct rain off it. I don't think enough snow would accumulate to be concerned about its weight.

 

[philjafo]

The regulator has a safety feature that shuts down flow in case of accidental disconnection, maybe 75 kbtu is more flow then its rated for and its occasionally tripping the safety feature. Try giving the manufacturer a call, they should be able to tell you how many btus that regulator can support.

 

[IONH]

The regulator has a safety feature that shuts down flow in case of accidental disconnection, maybe 75 kbtu is more flow then its rated for and its occasionally tripping the safety feature. Try giving the manufacturer a call, they should be able to tell you how many btus that regulator can support.

I remember when I bought the regulator, it was rated for something like 100k BTU. I know I verified that.

I think the freezing issue is the likely culprit here so I will have to do something to shelter it from the weather to minimize that.

 

[Jackfre]

"You brought the tank to be filled". Just a guess but at 75kbtu you likely overdrew the tank/regulator combo and it froze up, possibly damaging the regulator. LP tanks are sized to the load as well as the regulator. As temps decrease so to does the vaporization rate, meaning you may need a bigger tank to support the necessary btu load.

 

[IONH]

"You brought the tank to be filled". Just a guess but at 75kbtu you likely overdrew the tank/regulator combo and it froze up, possibly damaging the regulator. LP tanks are sized to the load as well as the regulator. As temps decrease so to does the vaporization rate, meaning you may need a bigger tank to support the necessary btu load.

Don't think that's the case. The heater did not work at all on the day I posted this thread so I don't think it froze up due to use at the time.

I'm adding a picture of the weather cover I put over it to try and keep some of the moisture out of the screen area.

 

[Cowboy69]

My heater acted up too, but mine wasn`t starting due to having too much back pressure in my vent. It would kick in but when asked for fuel it just wasnt there.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I used grill last night. Temp was below 40F and I had to wait about 5 minutes until there was adequate pressure at the burner to light. After lit, no problems.

 

[D KRAGER]

Just moisture in the regulator that froze, I've had it happen. I just took a bucket of hot water out and poured it over the regulator and that fixed the problem. Take a piece of old innertube or something to make a flap to cover it, should help.

 

[IONH]

Was upper 20's today and the heater fired right up. I guess the cover I made helped.

 

[darcyh]

We had this happen once, somehow the regular was full of dead insects.

 

[IONH]

Frozen again tonight. 10*F out.

If I was going to be out there for more than the expected about 90 minutes, I'd have tried a heat gun to see if I could free things up. Instead, I went back inside.

 

[ishiboo]

Waitaminute... how large of a tank is this connected to?

Tanks themselves can easily freeze up in winter if undersized. IE, the very minimum you could run that heater on would probably be 100lb, and that's probably too small for cold temps.

 

[ishiboo]

I see you have a 100# tank. This should be large enough. But, have you considered contracting your propane out? If they dropped off a 120 gallon tank, they would provide two separate (high pressure/low pressure) regulators or a better two stage unit than you have, and handle everything.

Propane delivered is almost always MUCH cheaper than if you go have your tank filled somewhere... I paid $1.39 a gallon this summer. The tank rental may be a bit if you don't hit their minimum, but it'd be worth it.

 

[IONH]

I see you have a 100# tank. This should be large enough. But, have you considered contracting your propane out? If they dropped off a 120 gallon tank, they would provide two separate (high pressure/low pressure) regulators or a better two stage unit than you have, and handle everything.

Propane delivered is almost always MUCH cheaper than if you go have your tank filled somewhere... I paid $1.39 a gallon this summer. The tank rental may be a bit if you don't hit their minimum, but it'd be worth it.

Correct, 100# tank.

It is entirely likely I will not go through a 100# tank in a year with this heater.

When I was investigating the use of LP for cooking/heating (decided against it), all companies wanted a fee for 'renting' their tanks when I did not use a specified minimum amount of LP per year. That's where they get you.

Also, they were not *MUCH* cheaper than going down to True Value hardware store about 5 miles away from my house, so the fee for not hitting the minimum usage per year would not make up for it.

Are you suggesting that if I go with high/low pressure separate regulators I would not have this problem?

 

[58Yeoman]

Hmmm... My shop is 24x40 metal, with 1.5" styrofoam in the walls, covered with osb; at least 6" fiberglas in the ceiling covered with osb and two insulated steel doors, two small windows. I've run my 75k Mr. Heater for a couple Sunday's, and find that I'm using 10% each day from my 120 gallon tank, while keeping the temp inside at 60-65*. I'm thinking at this rate, my tank will be good for only about 8 days running. Do you think you'll be able to last all season on a 100# tank? Maybe you have more insulation in the walls than I do?

I'm seriously looking into getting a larger tank for when I retire within the next couple years. BTW, the temp coming out of the front of the heater is 162*. Do I have a problem? Any thoughts?

 

[IONH]

Hmmm... My shop is 24x40 metal, with 1.5" styrofoam in the walls, covered with osb; at least 6" fiberglas in the ceiling covered with osb and two insulated steel doors, two small windows. I've run my 75k Mr. Heater for a couple Sunday's, and find that I'm using 10% each day from my 120 gallon tank, while keeping the temp inside at 60-65*. I'm thinking at this rate, my tank will be good for only about 8 days running. Do you think you'll be able to last all season on a 100# tank? Maybe you have more insulation in the walls than I do?

I'm seriously looking into getting a larger tank for when I retire within the next couple years. BTW, the temp coming out of the front of the heater is 162*. Do I have a problem? Any thoughts?

My garage is about 28x34 or so. 8 foot ceilings. Stick built 2x4 structure with insulation.

I only put the heat up to 52*F because that is plenty for me once I get moving.

 

[Chetter]

My garage is a 24x32 with 10' ft height ceilings and is a pole style. I too have 1.5" of styrofoam glued between the purlins and then it is covered with 1/2" osb. The outside was covered with 1/2" osb wrapped with house wrap and then vinyl sided. The ceiling has a heavy mill plastic sheeting then covered that with 1"x4'x8' styrofoam sheets and in the attic is R38 unfaced insulation. I use a Mr Heater 45,000 btu propane heater that is run off 2-40lb tanks with an auto change over regulator and though my tanks will frost over when bitterly cold as it has been here the past couple of days, the furnace works fine. I checked the heat exchanger tubes with my infared temp gun and heading into the first bend the temps run from 450 to nearly 500*, there is no glowing of the tubes either, just a nice warm heat. I have no windows in my garage and my 2 overhead doors are insulated and I have seals around them as well and I have an insulated walk door with extra seals to keep air out. I keep my propane tanks under cover with a shed type unit I built with some leftover 4x4's and covered with the plastic roof panels and a hinged door that only goes down about half way so it is not air tight and yet it keeps my tanks and regulators clean and dry. My heater does not have any flexible connections other than the hoses on the regulator outside. Sorry for the long post, just thought I would share my experiences with those looking for some ideas.

 

[IONH]

Okay, I had some time to commit to the garage today so with it single digits, I needed the heat to work.

First, I go outside and the thermostat says "LO" where the temperature would normally be. I wasn't sure if that meant the battery was low or if the temp was lower than it wanted to be used at (probably below freezing). I took the gamble and pulled the heat gun out, put it at about 200*F and held it about 8" away from the thermostat... bingo, up to 32 then 35 then 38. Turned the thermostat to "HEAT" and the heater kicked on.

You guessed it, heater didn't fire just like last time. Took the heat gun, turned it up to 300*F and held it under the regulator probably about 4" away. It is quite windy out today and the little bit of snow on top of the shroud I had made was not melting. After a couple minutes though, snow still sitting on top, the heater fired up and it ran fine for the rest of the night when called for.