Two Way Lighted Switch Wiring

[billrigsby]

Three Way Lighted Switch Wiring

While this is not in the garage, I am registered on this site and have found it helpful in the past.

Basically doing a remodel and took a photo (or I thought I did) of the upper switch wiring.

This is what I have, power comes from breaker to the upstairs switch (2 wire with ground).
3 wire with ground to fan / light, the red is used for a fan, black for light, white neutral.
Same 3 wires going down to lower switch (black to common screw, red and white to traveler screws.
I have it to this point, if the upper switch turns the light on with the lower in one position the upper will turn it off,
in the other position, the upper will not turn it off?

I am frustrated and baffled?

 

[AntonLargiader]

It sounds like you are mixing up 3-way switches and 3-wire fan/lights. What functionality are you looking for? What do you want to be able to do from the lower switch? If you want to independently control the fan and the light, you need two switches.

 

[billrigsby]

Sorry that should be a THREE WAY switch, we have one at the top and bottom of hall stairs.

 

[AntonLargiader]

OK, but how do you want it to work? Fan, light, switches...

 

[Milton Shaw]

Before going much more into this, look at the two three way switches and make sure that the travelers are on the same location on the switch. I have seen three ways with the travelers on the end and others with them on one side... It makes it hard to figure out what is wrong when the switches look the same until you study the hard to read diagram on the back.. You can mix the two types of switches by having the travelers in the right places on each switch.

 

[Rbreddin]

wiring a set of 3 way switches requires 4 wires (incl gnd), you can either use those 4 wires to set up the 3 way switches to power the fan/light together, or you can have the fan and light wired independently using the red wire as the light switch leg.

if you're using the red wire at the fan to operate the light independent of the fan.. you can't use the red wire to also allow control of the fan from the second switch location.

it sounds like in order to do what you want to do, you need at least one more wire (ccc) to be pulled from both switch locations to the fan.

 

[billrigsby]

I think I need to start over, Sorry

First off, this all worked fine before I removed the upper (livingroom) switch to remove a wall,
THINKING I had a photo of how to reconnect it all, but the photo does not exist.

• The fan is run off the red wire of the 3 plus ground that goes to the fan / light
• That red wire goes from the fan to a fan controller
• The black brings power to the lights
• The white is neutral
• A two wire with ground brings power from the breaker box to the upper box
• From the upper box that black also feeds two outlets
• From the lower switch (hall) there is a 3 plus ground that goes to the upper switch
• Lower switch (black to common screw, red and white to traveler screws, no power, except from the upper switch

I was hoping by my description of what was happening would be a dead give away to a more "knowledgeable "person.

I hope that clears up what is what, and what I want to accomplish
Sorry for the confusion.

 

[AntonLargiader]

So I guess the downstairs switch is only supposed to control the light? There’s a fan controller and a light switch upstairs, and a light switch downstairs? If the downstairs was wired as a switch loop (not to code any more I think) then I’d expect to see something like:
- black from panel to upstairs switch common, fan controller and receps
- red and white travelers to downstairs switch
- black from downstairs common to fan light

Or the blacks could be the other way, straight to downstairs common and then from upstairs common to fan light.

 

[billrigsby]

So I guess the downstairs switch is only supposed to control the light?
CORRECT

There’s a fan controller and a light switch upstairs, and a light switch downstairs?
CORRECT

If the downstairs was wired as a switch loop
Not sure what that means? but probably

(not to code any more I think) No surprise there! or was it in the 80s?
then I’d expect to see something like:
- black from panel to upstairs switch common, fan controller and receps
- red and white travelers to downstairs switch
- black from downstairs common to fan light
I think that is what is happening

Or the blacks could be the other way, straight to downstairs common and then from upstairs common to fan light.

So the question remains, what is messed up?
I could not find a drawing like what I have online.

Last time I rely on a cell phone pic, drawings from now on!

 

[AntonLargiader]

It would be easiest if you took a photo of each switch’s wiring. The travelers just go between the traveler terminals on the switches and don’t go to anything else. The commons are your in and out (line and load, however you want to think of it) so one will be power from the breaker and the other goes to your fan light.

 

[billrigsby]

It would be easiest if you took a photo of each switch’s wiring.

I hope this helps.....

 

[AntonLargiader]

OK, you have the black supplying power to the upper switch. Red and white travelers go to the lower switch. All good. But the lower black (which you should think of as being FROM the lower switch) should go directly to the light without touching anything at the upper switch. It looks like it’s tied to the upper white so it will add power when not expected.

 

[billrigsby]

OK, you have the black supplying power to the upper switch. Red and white travelers go to the lower switch. All good. But the lower black (which you should think of as being FROM the lower switch) should go directly to the light without touching anything at the upper switch. It looks like it’s tied to the upper white so it will add power when not expected.

So should Black to lower hall switch and Black to light be connected together without being connected to a switch?
How would they get power?
or
Should Black to lower hall switch and Black to light both be connected to the upper switch and if so which screw?

 

[AntonLargiader]

Black FROM lower switch gets power through a traveler if the switches are set in a position to do that. That power goes straight to the light. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

Power starts at the upper black and goes through one of the travelers to the bottom switch. That switch may or may not pass that power on to the black, which goes to the light.

 

[billrigsby]

Okay, time to get out a meter, first figure out what each switch position does.

Thanks, I'll check it out and report back.

 

[AntonLargiader]

OK, you'll end up with something like:

Upstairs UP - red is hot
Upstairs DOWN - white is hot
Downstairs UP - selects red
Downstairs DOWN - selects white

In that case UP-UP and DOWN-DOWN would illuminate the light and UP-DOWN and DOWN-UP won't. If you have the travelers mixed up then you'll get the opposite but it will still work right.

If you have the black from the downstairs tied to the upper white, then it will obviously be hot whenever the upstairs white is hot, no matter what the downstairs switch is doing. I think that's what you are describing that you have happening now. You will want to disconnect that before you do your voltage measurements because it will confuse the issue. But when you do that (disconnect it from the upstairs switch) just tie it to the fan light and try the switches. You will probably find that everything works the way it's supposed to.

 

[billrigsby]

If you have the black from the downstairs tied to the upper white, then it will obviously be hot whenever the upstairs white is hot, no matter what the downstairs switch is doing. But when you do that (disconnect it from the upstairs switch) just tie it to the fan light and try the switches. You will probably find that everything works the way it's supposed to.

Thanks, thats exactly where I was wrong, all is right, at least in my world.