Type S Mortar Mix
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Leaflessshadetree
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Portland, sand, gravel and water.manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Sakreet or what ever store brand is available?
WNYflyer
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To bond individual concrete masonry block (CMU) together you use mortar.
To fill the cores when block is being vertically reinforced with steel you typically use fine or coarse grout.
http://imiweb.org/masonry-grout/
Open up the .pdf within the site linked
To fill the cores when block is being vertically reinforced with steel you typically use fine or coarse grout.
http://imiweb.org/masonry-grout/
Open up the .pdf within the site linked
I have been core filling what I have been laying In the basement with Quikrete with added Portland cement. I found that locally Menards had their concrete mix made by Quikrete so I started using it as well. However, the last bunch I bought was wrong, like it didn't have any or enough portland cement in it. After opening three bags, I stopped using it, took it back and returned to using actual Quikrete concrete mix.
Yeah I thought the same
but it's real. According to the data sheet it's just Quikcrete with finer gravel. So it's probably a little easier to work with for filling cores.https://www.quikrete.com/productlines/corefillmasonrygrout.asp
WNYflyer
Well-known member
Yeah I thought the same
https://www.quikrete.com/productlines/corefillmasonrygrout.asp
Yep, whether you mix the ingredients yourself or buy some pre-packaged product as linked by MattT it should meet specification ASTM C476. You will note in the product information that the Quikcrete product meets or exceeds that.
Hilltopmasonry
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Type s mortar is fine but i wouldnt spend the Extra money on type s, just use type n that’s good enough
That’s all fill grout is....a wetter mix of mortar
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Hilltopmasonry
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Really? I literally just had the same problem this week with quickcrete that i picked up from home depot pouring a concrete chimney cap for a customer, my labor was like something is wrong with this concrete because it seemed like it didn’t have any cement in it. It was all gravel
I was in a real pinch because I had just enough to do the job and we were in the middle of pouring this cap so I went with it anyhow and it worked out OK..
They Must of made a bad batch of it because I have never had a problem with it in the past
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tncatadjuster
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I got 12 bags quickcrete from HD mixed 6 and returned 6. They did not want to take it back and credit me, but I got full credit in the end. Worker took the returns and put them with existing product. I wonder how many bad bags there were in total.
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pcmeiners
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Supposedly Quikcrete/or sand mix iives up to standards, always seems weak as to portland. I always add Portland to it.
Do you have rebar in your footing? Then rebar across your blocks
If you have or can get it, add concrete bonding agent to mixes
Do you have rebar in your footing? Then rebar across your blocks
If you have or can get it, add concrete bonding agent to mixes
mcbane
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I have had bad luck with sacked concrete on numerous occasions. Frequently what you get is around a 1 sack mix. The safest bet is to add at least 8 lbs of portland to each 80 lb bag, which will bring the 1 sack mix up to a 5 sack mix.
rayra
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JTFC you have to be kidding. It's CONCRETE. Comes in 60- and 90-lb bags just about anywhere.
Or just go to any material supply company and buy materials in a 1-3-3 ratio and mix it yourself. 1 shovel portland cement, 3 shovels sand, 3 shovels gravel.
OR
buy the Type-s and add 3-4 shovels of 1" minus / pea gravel per bag.
Yep. When I shoveled out of the wheelbarrow (from mixer) it was like wet grit. I put it back in the mixer and started adding portland cement.
I add about 48 oz ("fluid ounces. . . using a larger soup can x2) to an 80lb bag of Quikrete.
I have found it really helps when finishing-troweling/floating. The Menard's stuff that was bad, even after adding extra PC, still looks different than the rest of what I core filled with.
OK -- I'm confused. Have built numerous structures w/ block foundations ..... all of them had the block corse filled with. Concrete -- Portland cement with small stones. When I did small walls -- up to 44" -- they wanted them filled with Concrete.
What's the reason for mortar w/o stones ...
What's the reason for mortar w/o stones ...
spudley
Well-known member
Last year I core filled a three coarse knee wall mixed in a wheelbarrow. I quit using portland bought at Menards as it was definitely mixed with sand. Went to the local block/concrete yard and bought real portland, which mixed much easier.
I guess you get what you pay for.
Hilltopmasonry
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Its all the same really
People use the terms interchangeably, they probably just meant to fill it with something to reinforce the wall
Concrete has large rock (gravel) which causes the mixture to get caught up and cause cavities especially if there is wire and rebar reinforcement. If you use concrete you want to at least use a pea gravel mix
It all about the flow of the mixture
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Got it -- yes small stones. And they did always shake it ...
I have built small walls 36" with block and just used the bags. The bags have small stones. I will use the mortar next time just to try ... have to build a small block w/ brick faced wall next year.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
ALL: if we are talking about filling up concrete block wall that is 4 feet or less why not just put dirt in the cavities especially if there is some sort of drainage system behind the wall?
I've heard from several masons in our area that Type S bags the big box stores sell has too much sand in it and it seemed that way when i built a little brick planter a few years ago.
for the last brickwork I bought 94 bag of Portland cement and used the gravely sand out of some sandbags I had laying around (can't buy just a pile of sand with the cats and kids around) and I mix 1 part Portland and 2 parts sand and the 5 brick tall planter's wall is solid as can be.
that said I probably would just mix up 80 pound bags of cement and pour that in my 4 foot block wall, but still think soil is fine especially if you might want to plant something in the top of the wall.
as far as badly mixed bags at HD or Lowe's i've probably bought a few thousand over the years and only had a few with a bad mix.
I've heard from several masons in our area that Type S bags the big box stores sell has too much sand in it and it seemed that way when i built a little brick planter a few years ago.
for the last brickwork I bought 94 bag of Portland cement and used the gravely sand out of some sandbags I had laying around (can't buy just a pile of sand with the cats and kids around) and I mix 1 part Portland and 2 parts sand and the 5 brick tall planter's wall is solid as can be.
that said I probably would just mix up 80 pound bags of cement and pour that in my 4 foot block wall, but still think soil is fine especially if you might want to plant something in the top of the wall.
as far as badly mixed bags at HD or Lowe's i've probably bought a few thousand over the years and only had a few with a bad mix.
spudley
Well-known member
Depending on how much wall he has... a 4 foot block wall will eat up a whole lot of 80# bags of premix. I'd borrow a strong trailer and buy portland, sand and pea gravel (which is exactly what I did but I'm a bit out there...)
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Spud: yep, but some members (people) don't want to make their own cement. wouldn't cheaper version be dirt? i've never been known to do things the least expensive way, but now that i'm retired I have more time than money hence me doing things a bit different.
now you have my curiousity cause I'm now making my own mortar and I get access to free gravel quit often so what is the mix ratio. 1 part Portland to 3 parts gravel or do tell?
now you have my curiousity cause I'm now making my own mortar and I get access to free gravel quit often so what is the mix ratio. 1 part Portland to 3 parts gravel or do tell?
spudley
Well-known member
The mortar ratio my farmer buddy told me to use when I did a 12 coarse 26' x 42' basement on a lake home I built years ago, was one part portland to three parts sand but a little more portland will make the mortar more "sticky" if necessary. That was twenty years ago and I can't find any joint cracks so I guess he knew more than farming.
So when I did the garage kneewall last year I used the 1:3 ratio for mortar. When I core filled I just added a few shovels of stone to the same mix which gets pretty close to concrete.
Mixing portland/sand/gravel in a wheelbarrow is a fair amount of work but I found the portland purchased from the concrete block supplier mixed much easier than a bag I bought from a local big box.
I'm not sure if I needed anything in the cores but I'm not mass producing garages so adding a little more cost and time made sense to me.
And I believe the binding action of concrete interlocking the webs formed by alternating coarses makes the wall laterally stronger than without.
Good luck with your projects, I really enjoy your posts.
So when I did the garage kneewall last year I used the 1:3 ratio for mortar. When I core filled I just added a few shovels of stone to the same mix which gets pretty close to concrete.
Mixing portland/sand/gravel in a wheelbarrow is a fair amount of work but I found the portland purchased from the concrete block supplier mixed much easier than a bag I bought from a local big box.
I'm not sure if I needed anything in the cores but I'm not mass producing garages so adding a little more cost and time made sense to me.
And I believe the binding action of concrete interlocking the webs formed by alternating coarses makes the wall laterally stronger than without.
Good luck with your projects, I really enjoy your posts.
strutaeng
Well-known member
Huh? Filling cells with dirt? Cells with reinforcement?Wtf?
I was going to respond to OPs question, but seems like it I already clarified...
Basically, pre-bagged concrete mix likely meet the "grout" specification because of the 3/8 pea gravel....(vs 3/4" for ready-mix concrete ..)
I hope people aren't actually filling CMU cells with dirt, BTW, at least not for basement wall height walls...
I was going to respond to OPs question, but seems like it I already clarified...
Basically, pre-bagged concrete mix likely meet the "grout" specification because of the 3/8 pea gravel....(vs 3/4" for ready-mix concrete ..)
I hope people aren't actually filling CMU cells with dirt, BTW, at least not for basement wall height walls...
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Strut: you are correct cause I saw 4 foot and retaining and forgot about the rebar when i skimmed through the thread. yes DIRT was only if it was a retaining wall for a hill or garden and not structural and it surely wouldn't be my choice.
Spud: good post and when i mixed 1 part Portland and 2 parts sandbag sand which was almost like really small pea gravel it set up really quick so it's really a trial and error type method, but mixing your own you can account for your speed of work and also the climate and part of the world you live in. thanks for the compliment too!!
ALL: I just built a smallish 2.5 foot wall that is a support under a fence on our property line and I filled up the first half with quick drying cement and the top half will be dirt cause the neighbor thought having plants growing down the wall would be nice and they are in their 80's and have been my neighbor for over 30 years.
Spud: good post and when i mixed 1 part Portland and 2 parts sandbag sand which was almost like really small pea gravel it set up really quick so it's really a trial and error type method, but mixing your own you can account for your speed of work and also the climate and part of the world you live in. thanks for the compliment too!!
ALL: I just built a smallish 2.5 foot wall that is a support under a fence on our property line and I filled up the first half with quick drying cement and the top half will be dirt cause the neighbor thought having plants growing down the wall would be nice and they are in their 80's and have been my neighbor for over 30 years.
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BigGarage
Well-known member
Mortar is not the same as Portland cement.
Mortar is an adhesive/ bonding agent and cement is not.
Mortar has ingredients in it that cement does not have.
Dennis
spudley
Well-known member
That's true but a major ingredient is portland. In my wheelbarrow mix, I added a shovel of leftover type N and a bit of lime. When that ran out I bought several bags of type S.
I'm guessing my garage isn't collapsing any time soon.