Uh-oh (Toptul)

[dede2897234]

babzog and cwlo,

Was their a phone number listed on the invoice or packaging slip received with your Toptul order from "The Tool Chest"? I would like to call them and check on the availability of a metric combination wrench set. Unfortunately, you can only contact them using their website's online form.


Thanks,

Dave

 

[Old Donn]

Just got an email from Mike, he is still in business and plans to be for a while. Just a technical glitch. Hes working on it

FYI, mike will warranty tools.

You beat me to it V-K. Just got off the phone with Mike. Besides the website glitch, he's hand his hands full lately.

 

[vette-kid]

You beat me to it V-K. Just got off the phone with Mike. Besides the website glitch, he's hand his hands full lately.

Any word from him on getting his next shipment in?

Love your Vette BTW (avatar)

 

[mrholeshot]

Why doesn't this Mike sit down for 2 minutes and post whats going on. If it were me I would at least be telling people whats going on. I can't beleive someone is so busy they can't contact their customer base. I would like to try some TopTul tools but with such a lack of communication it would scare me.

I'm thinking about becoming a TopTul dealer but may be really turned off if the order time is extreme. If someone wants something and I don't have it in stock I don't want that person waiting more than 3-4 weeks on a special order.

 

[3 at 8]

I'm thinking about becoming a TopTul dealer but may be really turned off if the order time is extreme. If someone wants something and I don't have it in stock I don't want that person waiting more than 3-4 weeks on a special order.

Don't mean to be a buzzkill; but I have a feeling that this may very well be a serious reality to overcome. I'm not a proffesional nut twister so the wait for me; while very inconvienent, and frustrating did'nt affect my employment or any home projects either for that matter. I quess I had the impression that the inconvienece was the trade off for getting a product that in my opinion had alot of value relevent to the cost. If your target market is proffesionals who are used to having fast warrenty turnaround from the trucks, that might be a hard sell, who knows. I hope you succeed if the numbers are practical for you to pursue this, and while I have most everything I want for now with the exception of some sockets, I hope to be a customer as well. I'm sure I can find something else I wan...I mean need. Good luck in your quest.

 

[Vinko]

yes, I don't get it all either. With so many quite decent offshore brands with much better distribution, service and established presence I simply never got even the slightest idea why anyone would buy toptul. Seemed like typical higher quality offshore stuff like Titan, blackhawk, better stanley and so on. Now I know there are some guys who just have to have "new" stuff. But if you have to buy new, buy something you can handle and get support on. Prices did not seem all that great either.

I thought the aesthetics of the tools looked a hell of a lot better than the stuff I've seen from Blackhawk, at least. Good looking stuff, some of it. How long term quality is, I haven't a clue.

I'm sorry to hear about Wren's site closing down, if it's true.

I sympathize greatly. I've shared some of the same problems (if our assumptions are correct) as he has in the past.

 

[beelsr]

gee, all the drama...

i called and spoke to mike tonight. i asked him the same question and he said he's been busy with his "day job".

I certainly don't want to put words in his mouth and i'm not his spokesman but the vibe i get is he does the toptul stuff more because he's a tool guy and he likes the product than as a job he needs to do to put food on the table. he recognizes the lack of communication has been disconcerting but said he's not going anywhere, is fully committed to the brand and supplying product, etc... He just prioritized his time - and as an investments guy he's been busy putting food on the table and after that - it's been existing customers getting his attention.

He did tell me that his existing customers will be getting some emails soon with some nice offers.

If anyone else wants to now anything, feel free to drop him a line or call him up. He answers the phone and is a great guy to talk to...

Why doesn't this Mike sit down for 2 minutes and post whats going on. If it were me I would at least be telling people whats going on. I can't beleive someone is so busy they can't contact their customer base. I would like to try some TopTul tools but with such a lack of communication it would scare me.

I'm thinking about becoming a TopTul dealer but may be really turned off if the order time is extreme. If someone wants something and I don't have it in stock I don't want that person waiting more than 3-4 weeks on a special order.

 

[Vinko]

gee, all the drama...

I don't see it as drama. Just speculation. Further speculation: I wonder if he got shafted by his website developer. I read recently that over 75% of web projects aren't delivered in time or on budget. I'm trying to finish up my site, and even though the company is good, it's a full-time job just coordinating everything, keeping everyone on task, reminding them of agreements, etc.

But hell, a small investment in a good site, and I bet sales would've increased significantly. And calls decreased significantly as well. Because there wouldn't have been all these questions.

I'm sort of in accord with mrholeshot's cited post above, even though I don't think Mike owe's anyone anything, at least not those for which there are no orders pending. But I get the frustration.

 

[Sick Puppy]

I get the frustration too, but the US is in (and soon hopefully coming out of) a recession, how about some support for a one man band who believes in what appears to be a good brand?

If I had the capital and half the ability / balls I'd be doing something similar here in NZ, with the tools that are otherwise hard to find here (solely because of Garage Journal), but pretty much all new / small businesses have some form of limitation... he's out there and doing it, give the guy a chance to get his sh!t together and sell some decent product.

[/ supporting rant]

Just my 2c

 

[scott37300]

I'm all for supporting the small guy, be it the local family owned true value around the corner instead of going to home depot or buying tools from a small business rather than a huge factory. As long as this small business is going to stand behind there products and provide as good customer service as the huge business.

I understand Mike is doing this on the side and I think that it is great and I would love to be in his position to do something like this, who wouldn't want a bunch of shinny new tools in their house! Even as a side business(this is assuming he wants this to be a business) he needs to return calls in a timely manner and keep a good website up. Think if he had a better website it would run itself a lot more. If I am going to support someone in their business I am going to expect them to support me by keeping tools in stock and providing customer service. I understand his day job and don't have a problem waiting a couple days for return phone call or email, but some people say they don't get a return call or it takes weeks which is not acceptable in my book.

Now I have never delt with Mike so I am just going off what others have said, which may be true or may not be. But word of mouth goes a long way in the business world, once you get a bad rap you lose many potential customers. To be in business it's either an all in or all out thing. A hobby business is ok but you need to be able to invest the time needed. If you work on cars on the side and someone needs a water pump replaced I don't think they are going to wait forever for you just because you have a day job that comes first.

I would think to get into the toptul dealer would be a high initial investment. Depending on order lag time from them I would think the best bet would be to stock most items yourself, creating a high overhead.

 

[Old Donn]

Any word from him on getting his next shipment in?

Love your Vette BTW (avatar)

Nothing about any new shipments. Re:the Vette. Thanks. I love it too.

 

[Jack_B]

You guys should definitely purchase from thetoolchest.ca. Great ppl to deal with. One of the other Toptul dealer in Vancouver, BFB handtools constantly supplies thetoolchest with tools. BFB orders a new shipment every few months. They have quite a bit of products in stock.

 

[mrholeshot]

I got an email from TopTul about 5-6 days ago telling me they wanted to open up the US market much larger. I ask them to sell me (at dealer cost) a few odds and ends like a ratchet, a combo wrench in each design and a few other things of if theey had a staarter pack you could buy to get familiar with their tools.( I'm not selling anything I'm not confident in) I also ask about order and delivery time and I haven't heard a thing since. If this is reresentative of how they do business I think I'll pass. I may buy somethings from Mike if he ever shows up here but I don't see how great the tools are if you get no service no matter how cost effective and pretty they are.

 

[vette-kid]

mrholeshot, I hate to hear that. I hope they turn out to be a lot better at this than it appears. Also, keep in mind there was a weekend in there. Im not sure what their weekend is, but it may not be the same as ours, so keep that in mind too.

As someone who really believes in their tools, I hope they turn out to be a good company for you and others to do business with. I get the impression that is part of the problem Mike has had as well. If they really want to break into the US market, they really need to make it easier for you guys to get a hold of them and get the tools. Especially given the turn time for shipments to make it into the states you almost need to get a line of credit and buy a rather large (ok a huge) quantity to offset that turn time. Thats a risky business model of course. But I really believe it would be successful. I would love to switch completely to Toptul if they had the accessibility.

Keep us posted on the progress.

 

[beelsr]

You left the smiley off my quote....

I do IT consulting for a living and I don't remember the exact details but I vaguely remember some details and yeah, I think he got shafted on the website as well. I think there was a change in developer teams partway through and the money expended was lost.

I do know that I have teams that do website dev and it's sad to see a website that could be so cool but is just so... not.

I don't see it as drama. Just speculation. Further speculation: I wonder if he got shafted by his website developer. I read recently that over 75% of web projects aren't delivered in time or on budget. I'm trying to finish up my site, and even though the company is good, it's a full-time job just coordinating everything, keeping everyone on task, reminding them of agreements, etc.

But hell, a small investment in a good site, and I bet sales would've increased significantly. And calls decreased significantly as well. Because there wouldn't have been all these questions.

I'm sort of in accord with mrholeshot's cited post above, even though I don't think Mike owe's anyone anything, at least not those for which there are no orders pending. But I get the frustration.

 

[scott37300]

I decided I was going to order a toptul 3/8" ratchet from wrentools to check it out and see how it ranked. I went to the catalog page and picked out the 72 tooth one I wanted, then had to remember the item number while I clicked on the page to price it. When I clicked on the page to price it an error showed up and wouldn't let me see prices or order it. There went one sale due to website problems, wonder how many more sales he loses everyday? Pretty sure if I ran a website based business I would make sure my website was working correctly all the time.

Oh well, guess I just won't buy any toptul tools anytime soon. Was really looking forward to seeing how these ratchets stand up to others.

 

[vette-kid]

Scott, in his defense he does not run a website company. The bulk of his business is local. He was trying to get into the website deal and as a few others have said, he got shafted by the web developer. He tried again with another, but I think he lost the taste for it so he hasn't pushed it much. Im sure he loses a lot of sales from it, but he is a small business and hasnt been around that long. He is still trying to get things to the point he can keep up with higher volume. Until that happens, there isnt much point going for high volume sales. You can email or call him with an order though. They are great tools.

 

[scott37300]

Scott, in his defense he does not run a website company. The bulk of his business is local. He was trying to get into the website deal and as a few others have said, he got shafted by the web developer. He tried again with another, but I think he lost the taste for it so he hasn't pushed it much. Im sure he loses a lot of sales from it, but he is a small business and hasnt been around that long. He is still trying to get things to the point he can keep up with higher volume. Until that happens, there isnt much point going for high volume sales. You can email or call him with an order though. They are great tools.

I'm not trying to put him down personally, have heard lots of great stuff about him. Didn't know he was mostly local. ***** that he got shafted by the website designer. I don't have a lot of time to make phone calls, easier to point and click for me. If I was in this business with some decent quality tools there is an interest in I would spend the money to get a website up, those are the easiest sales. Just have to read an order, fill it, and ship it. You can do that anytime of the day/night you feel like.

 

[ATTappman]

Oh well, guess I just won't buy any toptul tools anytime soon. Was really looking forward to seeing how these ratchets stand up to others.

See if ultimategarage.com has the ratchet you want in stock. If it's not in stock, it won't show up on his web site.

 

[mikebramel]

AFAIK mike doesnt really have any ratchets or SAE sockets left

 

[scott37300]

AFAIK mike doesnt really have any ratchets or SAE sockets left

What's the point of selling tools if you don't have any ratchets or sockets and from posts above don't plan on getting anymore? Sounds to me like he is planning on getting out if his website doesn't work, doesn't have stock, and doesn't return phone calls or emails.

Went to the ultimate garage site and they have limited stock also. I was going to get a 3/8" ratchet which they had one and I wanted some 3/8" locking extensions which they didn't, only 1/2" ones. Went threw the site and was pretty limited.

Since most say nothing but good things about toptul I sure wish someone would sell and stock a good assortment of the tools in the toptul catalog.

 

[mikebramel]

its already been mentioned where you can buy those ratchets http://www.thetoolchest.ca/ $10 usa shipping

its already been mentioned why he doesnt have the stock

 

[Givl Reggin]

I'm all for supporting the small guy... As long as this small business is going to stand behind there products and provide as good customer service as the huge business... I understand Mike is doing this on the side... he needs to return calls in a timely manner and keep a good website up... word of mouth goes a long way in the business world, once you get a bad rap you lose many potential customers... in business it's either an all in or all out thing. A hobby business is ok but you need to be able to invest the time needed.

I totally agree with all of the above - if you're going to do it, do it right - invest the needed money and all the time it takes to run as professional a business as possible. If you need help answering the phone or emails or fulfilling orders then hire someone to help you! When you're in business making excuses is BS - you're in business, it was your choice, now do it right or get out of the business.

I would bet that TopTul would like to hear how one of their dealers is ruining their reputation.

 

[vette-kid]

I'm not trying to put him down personally, have heard lots of great stuff about him. Didn't know he was mostly local. ***** that he got shafted by the website designer. I don't have a lot of time to make phone calls, easier to point and click for me. If I was in this business with some decent quality tools there is an interest in I would spend the money to get a website up, those are the easiest sales. Just have to read an order, fill it, and ship it. You can do that anytime of the day/night you feel like.

I agree with that. I have tried to convince him that he really needs to get something better. But that only goes so far. I really hope he gets it figured out and is successful with it. Not only do I want to see him succeed, but I want to have a dealer that I have a rep with and can get the tools I want! My brother is a business consultant, he helps small businesses get up and running and profitable, maybe I will slip Mike his contact info

 

[mrholeshot]

I would bet that TopTul would like to hear how one of their dealers is ruining their reputation.

Well having been trying to break into the TopTul business myself I can tell you that they seem to being a better job at ruining their reputation than anyone else. It upsets me a little that this Mike Wrenn won't come on himself and explain whats going on but from what I understand from several people is it takes 3 months to get an order in once placed. You can't stock everything and you can't stock a 100 sets of everything that may or may not sell. TopTul claims they want to open up a US market. I'm all for it but I want an order filled within 10 days. For that to happen they need a distubution center in the US in a Central Location that can get to dealers fast such as Atlanta. Despite in not being geographicly located in the center of the US stuff shipping out of Atlanta moves quickly across the US.

 

[scott37300]

Well having been trying to break into the TopTul business myself I can tell you that they seem to being a better job at ruining their reputation than anyone else. It upsets me a little that this Mike Wrenn won't come on himself and explain whats going on but from what I understand from several people is it takes 3 months to get an order in once placed. You can't stock everything and you can't stock a 100 sets of everything that may or may not sell. TopTul claims they want to open up a US market. I'm all for it but I want an order filled within 10 days. For that to happen they need a distubution center in the US in a Central Location that can get to dealers fast such as Atlanta. Despite in not being geographicly located in the center of the US stuff shipping out of Atlanta moves quickly across the US.

I agree, I would think that if they wanted to break into the market they would set up some kind of storage/distribution. Even if it's out of california that's better than over seas. I'm sure they would get more dealers and more sales. That's why in one of my posts I mentioned it would be hard to start a new dealer program without stocking a ton of stuff, which like you state isn't a smart business decision to have so much overhead.

 

[Bull]

In my opinion, if you haven't personally suffered some kind of loss or meaningful frustration due to Mike's business, you shouldn't harshly criticize him or drag his name through the mud.

 

[PistolWhip]

I agree with Bull. While I haven't gotten anything from him recently, I did place a few orders with him in the past and he was an outstanding person to deal with. He was fast, his communication was great and his prices were outstanding. Honestly, if you want to ask him something about his business call him.... I mean really, when did internet discussions or garage forums become the standard for business communication???

 

[kythri]

I mean really, when did internet discussions or garage forums become the standard for business communication???

Typically, when those businesses attempt to build their customer base on said forums, both by posting regularly and sponsoring/buying ad space (there's still an advert on the front page of this website).

It's not surprising people are frustrated by him disappearing.

 

[scott37300]

I have never delt with Mike or any toptul dealer. I am not trying to drag down Mike personally, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts I have heard he is a decent guy to buy from. But have also heard that he can be slow to return phone calls and emails from new customers. I have been reading all this good stuff about toptul tools and am trying to find a place to order some to check them out. I am just posting my struggles in trying to find a stocked dealer that I can trust to order from. So far I have found that the dealers listed in this thread have limited stock of the toptul tools. Have poor websites that take for ever to navigate and almost imposible to order from. Guess i just don't understand some of the business practices of some of the dealers, if they aren't interested in expanding I don't get why they are advertising for new business? Also don't understand that if toptul is really interested in breaking into the US market why they don't open a warehouse/distribution center so dealers can get stock more easily. Maybe it's one of those things that is to good to be true, good tools at a good price but bad customer service and hard to get.

There is lots of reviews/opinions on this site of tools and tool dealers-snap on, harbor freight, tool truck dealers, craftsman, sears, etc. Weather they are good or bad people share their experiences with them. Word of mouth is one of the most important things in a small business.

 

[Vinko]

@holeshot: I think the TopTul catalog (which Mike was kind enough to send), has some sample kits in them. Have you checked their website for those sample kits?

re: websites in general. I think there's a real market for good book that details everything you need to know before you contract to have a website made. Marketed toward the general public with limited knowledge. If such a book exists, I haven't found it. Though I've found articles here and there, and a few sections of books.

I was reading an IT trade magazine that had some good info. Let me see if I can dig it up. Anyway, as I said earlier, a huge percentage of "IT Projects" aren't on budget, and take forever to complete. I've talked to guys in big organizations who claim that their IT people are so assbackwards they can't seem to "manage" successfully much of anything, incl. what appears to be the necessary subcontracting that a lot of these firms do. I've always seen a lot of IT and "consulting" to be a total con.

 

[Sick Puppy]

re: websites in general. I think there's a real market for good book that details everything you need to know before you contract to have a website made. Marketed toward the general public with limited knowledge. If such a book exists, I haven't found it. Though I've found articles here and there, and a few sections of books.

I was reading an IT trade magazine that had some good info. Let me see if I can dig it up. Anyway, as I said earlier, a huge percentage of "IT Projects" aren't on budget, and take forever to complete. I've talked to guys in big organizations who claim that their IT people are so assbackwards they can't seem to "manage" successfully much of anything, incl. what appears to be the necessary subcontracting that a lot of these firms do. I've always seen a lot of IT and "consulting" to be a total con.

I would like to see the article if you are able to post a link or scan it.

 

[Vinko]

I want to say that several were in a magazine called Technology Inc? Maybe that's not right, but I printed out every one they had about IT and how to deal with that "type".

About a quarter of the way through 50 printed pages. Just short 2 page articles.

 

[mrholeshot]

Well I got a responce from TopTul last night. They sent me the online dealers catalog and told me to pick out what I wanted to try and they would dealer price it for me. I looked through and all but 2 wrench sets skip (for me) critical sizes. Their largest set of wrenches goes from 8-32, one long set of wrenches that goes for 10-19 and a fractionl set. The rest will skip thing like 14-15, 16 and 18, 15 and 17, 9 and 12. You can't get the Fractional in satin Chrome and their new super strong wrench "Super Torque" only comes in mid length and metric with no SAE. I may try one order to see what they have but I'm not real excited so far.

 

[Bo Heck]

Well I got a responce from TopTul last night. They sent me the online dealers catalog and told me to pick out what I wanted to try and they would dealer price it for me. I looked through and all but 2 wrench sets skip (for me) critical sizes. Their largest set of wrenches goes from 8-32, one long set of wrenches that goes for 10-19 and a fractionl set. The rest will skip thing like 14-15, 16 and 18, 15 and 17, 9 and 12. You can't get the Fractional in satin Chrome and their new super strong wrench "Super Torque" only comes in mid length and metric with no SAE. I may try one order to see what they have but I'm not real excited so far.

This is one of my problems with Toptul, their "sets" skip critical sockets and a lot of their line up does not include fractional sizes at all.

 

[vette-kid]

Yeah, the lack of fractional is pretty annoying. Maybe since you have contact with them about breaking into the US market more you can put it in their ear that they need to expand the fractional line. They have NO fractional impact sockets!

 

[Bolster]

Once you guys get all your wishes from TopTul (full inventory, multiple dealers, fast service, state-side distribution hubs, easy web purchasing, fast callbacks, email support, etc. etc. etc.) then TopTul prices will no longer be the bargain they are now.

All the service you guys want, will inevitably raise the price of TopTul. Yep. Worth repeating: All your service demands will push the prices right up. Don't say I didn't warn you.

"There is no free lunch."

 

[Bull]

That's a good point, Bolster.

 

[tonydanzah]

Not nessecarily, it could cause competition

 

[Bo Heck]

Once you guys get all your wishes from TopTul (full inventory, multiple dealers, fast service, state-side distribution hubs, easy web purchasing, fast callbacks, email support, etc. etc. etc.) then TopTul prices will no longer be the bargain they are now.

All the service you guys want, will inevitably raise the price of TopTul. Yep. Worth repeating: All your service demands will push the prices right up. Don't say I didn't warn you.

"There is no free lunch."

This is true, although it would provide another option of professional tools that still would not be expensive as Snap On and others that would introduce some pricing competition for them. It's always good to have more choices in my opinion. If they get big, there will be another reasonably tool company to take their place.