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UL 1738 pipe for Reznor heaters?

jjscott

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Aug 9, 2014
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114
Has anyone used the double wall UL 1738 compliant vent pipe when installing a Reznor UDAP garage heater? The double wall stuff is insanely expensive. The way I read the Reznor vent instructions, you are supposed to use it for residential applications even if it’s all vertical. The manual states you can use double wall B-vent pipe if it’s a commercial install and 75% of the run is vertical. Not sure why it’s acceptable for commercial, but not residential.

I looked at the manual for the Modine Hot Dawg which is very similar to the Reznor UDAP line. The both are power vented. Same BTU. Vent connection is from the side of the unit. There manual says you can use B-Vent as long as the run is 75% vertical. There is no distinction for residential or commercial. Not sure why it’s OK to use B-vent for Modine, but not Reznor. The only thing I can think of is that Reznor specially states their heater is CAT 3. The Modine manual has references to CAT 1 & 3, but it doesn’t state which category their device falls into. They make it sound like the type of installation (horizontal/vertical) dictates the category and hence the type of vent pipe required.

I’m looking to have a Reznor UDAP-60 heater installed in three car my garage. I have drywall ceiling with open attic above before the roof. There would be about 8ft of pipe in the attic, about a 2 ft in the garage space and probably another 4 feet outside to clear the roof line…so about 14 ft total. This would be a straight vertical install except for the 90 degree elbow at the unit. Based on the pricing I found, I’d be well over $1,500 just for the pipe and accessories. That’s insane!

I have a couple of contractors coming out to bid on the job and will certainly ask them. I also plan on trying to get a straight answer out of my local building inspector. While I wait, can anybody chime in on this? Did you really have to use the double wall UL 1738 pipe? I don’t want to burn my house down or cause other issues, so I will if I have to. Just want to get your thoughts on the matter.
 
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Jackfre

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Your unit(s) are not “power vented”. They are “draft induced”. A PV is an after market device (Tjernlund, Fields) which can be attached to a Cat I appliance and handle the exhaust needs. Cat I appliances have negative pressure vents. III’s are positive pressure. Induced Cat I appliances are frequently thought to use the inducer to force the vent when in fact the fan is only there to get the air and fuel across the heat exchanger. It is then the job of the negative pressure vent system to exhaust the by products. B-vent is a negative pressure vent material and therefore can only be used in CI. Cat III has to have a positive pressure vent system which must also be corrosion resistant.
Be careful of appliances that say they are both I & III. The Category system began in ‘92 when efficiency updates were mandated. A lot of the unitary furnace manuf made a unit that they listed as both I & III. There were all kinds of problems with them and it didn’t take the manuf long to come out with different models by category.
 
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jjscott

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Aug 9, 2014
Messages
114
Your unit(s) are not “power vented”. They are “draft induced”. A PV is an after market device (Tjernlund, Fields) which can be attached to a Cat I appliance and handle the exhaust needs. Cat I appliances have negative pressure vents. III’s are positive pressure. Induced Cat I appliances are frequently thought to use the inducer to force the vent when in fact the fan is only there to get the air and fuel across the heat exchanger. It is then the job of the negative pressure vent system to exhaust the by products. B-vent is a negative pressure vent material and therefore can only be used in CI. Cat III has to have a positive pressure vent system which must also be corrosion resistant.
Be careful of appliances that say they are both I & III. The Category system began in ‘92 when efficiency updates were mandated. A lot of the unitary furnace manuf made a unit that they listed as both I & III. There were all kinds of problems with them and it didn’t take the manuf long to come out with different models by category.

Thanks for the info. If I understand your reply, you are just talking about the terminology differences between "power vent" and "draft induced". I can only state that both the Modine Hot Dawg and Reznor UDAP lines are marketed as Power Vented.

To me, it doesn't make a difference what they market it as. I'm just trying to understand the vent pipe issue I described in my original post. The Reznor manual states the UDAP line is certified as a Category 3.
 

D45

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My heater is power vented......and I have 3" b-vent running vertical through the roof

$65 vent kit
 
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jjscott

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My heater is power vented......and I have 3" b-vent running vertical through the roof

$65 vent kit

Yep. I'm guessing you installed a Modine Hot Dawg 45k based on your previous posts. As I said in my original post...

"The Modine manual has references to CAT 1 & 3, but it doesn’t state which category their device falls into. They make it sound like the type of installation (horizontal/vertical) dictates the category and hence the type of vent pipe required."

It's all very confusing. Both the Modine & Reznor's are power vented, but one states you have to use UL 1738 and the other says B-Vent. At least that's the way I interpret it.

I scheduled an appointment with another contractor this morning and they exclusively install the Reznor UDAP line. I explained the layout of my garage and he say they would use B-Vent pipe as they always do. I told him what I read in the manual...that it calls for UL 1738. He said that he was not aware of that and said they install a bunch of these and it has always passed the building code inspection with B-Vent pipe. He's going to do additional research on the matter before coming out on Wednesday. I have another contractor coming out tomorrow and they also install Reznor's. I'll post their feedback.

Thanks
 

mrramsey

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Last edited:
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jjscott

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FYI -
2013 Residential Code of Ohio https://up.codes/viewer/ohio/ohio_residential_code_2013/chapter/24/fuel-gas#2426.1

and

https://up.codes/viewer/ohio/ohio_residential_code_2013/chapter/24/fuel-gas#2427.7

one more-
https://up.codes/viewer/ohio/ohio_residential_code_2013/chapter/24/fuel-gas#2427.4

If I am reading it correctly essentially the cat II and III seem to defer to the manufacture's instruction. My HVAC guy comes out tomorrow morning. I will pose the question.

How did your install go today? Did you get any clarification on the cat II and III?

The first contractor came out this afternoon to bid my job and said they always use b-vent. I showed him the Reznor manual and he didn't know what to make of it. He also asked his supply house when he was checking on pricing for something. They said the same thing.

Estimate was $2,024. This is for 15ft of b-vent, dedicated electrical circuit and materials, probably 6-8ft of gas pipe and a Reznor 60k heater. The gas line is already available in the garage just below where the heater will be installed.

Two more contractors coming out tomorrow.
 

mrramsey

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Sep 23, 2016
Messages
261
Location
North East Ohio
How did your install go today? Did you get any clarification on the cat II and III?

The first contractor came out this afternoon to bid my job and said they always use b-vent. I showed him the Reznor manual and he didn't know what to make of it. He also asked his supply house when he was checking on pricing for something. They said the same thing.

Estimate was $2,024. This is for 15ft of b-vent, dedicated electrical circuit and materials, probably 6-8ft of gas pipe and a Reznor 60k heater. The gas line is already available in the garage just below where the heater will be installed.

Two more contractors coming out tomorrow.

I just met with them today to finalize the deal. Install is in about a week. He also confirmed that it was b vent in my case up to the concentric box in the wall (I am doing sealed combustion and venting through the sidewall. He said summit county is hit or miss as to weather they will inspect, sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.
 
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