Ultrasonic carb cleaning problems

[atikovi]

This has happened on the last two carbs I've done. The pot metal has gotten a black coating of something, all over it. I can rub it off with a finger, but I assume it's also on the internal passages. This is a Nikki generator carburetor and I'm using Meguiars Super Degreaser for the fluid.

For reference, a carb I did a few years ago came out great.

What's going on and how to prevent it?

 

[dodge610]

Is your solvent new or used.

 

[atikovi]

Like new.

 

[tncatadjuster]

I know new solvent is not efficient, but there must be a reaction for that to happen. The solvent works better when it has been used for a while.

 

[four.cycle]

^ your Q-Jet had a gold anodized finish. the little small-engine carbs are generally bare aluminum alloy, which will blacken when exposed to some chemicals.
sorry I cannot make a recommendation, as those products I've purchased thus far have been next to useless. I just wash them out in gasoline now.

 

[Zewnten]

We cleaned carbs using simple green. Always worked great for us, next place I worked used solvent and it didn't seem to work as well.

 

[Skin]

Use to see that every once in awhile with the really filthy carbs since they got left in the tank so long. Cast aluminum and zinc will both oxidize in a lot of carburetor cleaners given enough time. You can try to remove it with a soak in white vinegar or some evaporust or just run it. Other than being an annoyance on your hands it shouldn't hurt anything.

 

[atikovi]

Trying a cycle with plain water.

 

[Wamsutta]

It's the acid in the cleaner that's turning it black. I suggest that you switch over to a non-acid cleaner like Mean Green Orange Champ from Lowes.

 

[mikegt4]

I would change your fluid type. I had the same problem with Simple Green (green) blackening carb bodies, changed to Simple Green HD Pro (purple) and the problem went away.

Meguiars Super Degreaser uses Potassium Hydroxide as a cleaning agent, Simple Green HD Pro does not. I am not a chemist so I don't know if attacks aluminum or the various zinc based pot metal often used in carbs.

https://www.meguiars.com/ingredients/1817
https://simplegreen.com/data-sheets/

 

[justme-]

We use an ultrasonic in both our shops daily. This happens with either the solution you chose (degreaser is not the right thing for this) or when too much scum builds up in the tank.

If you don't want to spend for or find real ultrasonic carburetor solution (go to your local small engine repair shop and ask them what they use and to order you some- we use solution from Rotary).
Try simple green very diluted.

I'm not on here as much as I used to be, but I'm a power equipment tech for a living.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[Ohmthis]

I’ve always just used a few drops of dawn dish soap and hot water. Mine has a heater I set it to the highest setting (heat wise) and 10-15 min on the ultrasound. I’ve always had good luck with that.

 

[kctyphoon]

What else could it possibly be besides the cleaner reacting to what’s inside.. try something else.

 

[Air21]

I used green antifreeze, ethylene glycol in an old Crock-Pot with great success on aluminum parts. It doesn't react but it will strip everything! Just set it somewhere any vapors won't be a problem and leave it until you remember it's there.

 

[sberry]

I don't fuss with them, I get a can of spray carb cleaner, juice them and air blast and get it right back together and pull the cord.

 

[atikovi]

I don't fuss with them, I get a can of spray carb cleaner, juice them and air blast and get it right back together and pull the cord.

I shouda done that but when you got a $700 machine sitting in the corner haven't been used in a year or two, you figure, might as well.

 

[sberry]

Good small engine/life skill, remove, clean reinstall a carb. I got a snowmobile, first time it took me an hour fussing around, wasn't in a hurry but can do it in 10 minutes now, most engines, old tractors, just a few minutes. Having air pressure is a key, **** sits, both steel and alum gets fuzz built up in the ports and like a clogged artery just quit.

 

[rlitman]

Cleaning chemicals that contain lye are not safe on aluminum, as it will dissolve the oxide layer that protects aluminum keeping it bright. This chemical attack is particularly pronounced in unreasoning cleaners, where heat and agitation speed up the process. But you see it too on bare aluminum in a dishwasher.

FYI, Simple Green is on the list of products containing lye that is NOT safe on aluminum.

 

[Bogie1632]

I used green antifreeze, ethylene glycol in an old Crock-Pot with great success on aluminum parts. It doesn't react but it will strip everything! Just set it somewhere any vapors won't be a problem and leave it until you remember it's there.

^This works well. Very common in the gas/nitro R/C world. Rinse with clean gas or carb cleaner. Haven't had a carb change color on me yet, though I haven't had to clean one in a couple years (snowmobile is due this summer).

Though discoloring hasn't happened to me, knock on wood, I'm told this will also clean that black build up off. Might be worth a try.

Good luck.

V/R
Bogie

 

[Shehzada]

I wonder if the reaction happened when the degreaser was heated.....if your ultrasonic has a heat function.

Sent from my mobile device

 

[sberry]

What kills them is new gas. They sit a while with old and will start and run on it,,, put new in and tomorrow won't start. The new is so hi in solvent and cleaner loosens everything in them and clog, absolutely won't start.
If they will run on the old I do it. Let's the gunk go thru a little at a time. Have taken the jets out and air blow and had clogs come out with a pop. If they get a little drop of water in them sitting seems to let it grow.

 

[Davefr]

I don't fuss with them, I get a can of spray carb cleaner, juice them and air blast and get it right back together and pull the cord.

^^^I agree with this method. Blasting passage ways with solvent based carb. cleaner seems to be more effective then ultrasonics and a water based bath.

Carb cleaner will dissolve **** before your very eyes. I've never observed this with water based cleaners.

 

[travisn1]

The antifreeze is a good idea, I'll have to try that sometime.

I've used the 'aircraft' version of simple green which is aluminum safe. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VXU7OE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[theoldwizard1]

I don't fuss with them, I get a can of spray carb cleaner, juice them and air blast and get it right back together and pull the cord.

Quick note : If you get too much carb cleaner on the bowl "O-ring" it will swell and make re-assembly almost impossible. Wash the O-ring with soap and water and let air dry for about 30 minutes. It should shrink back.

 

[rlitman]

Quick note : If you get too much carb cleaner on the bowl "O-ring" it will swell and make re-assembly almost impossible. Wash the O-ring with soap and water and let air dry for about 30 minutes. It should shrink back.

Once you stretch out an o-ring, it never goes quite back to where it was.

(looks like I'm going to end up on that thread about quotes out of context again...)

 

[driftpin]

I use my friend's shop ultrasonic cleaner, it heats, I don't know what he uses for solution, it doesn't foam-up like a dishwashing soap might, but it does a great job. I work on motorcycle carbs and the ones I do most-often are a bank of four downdraft Mikuni CV carbs 38 mm & they have a jet block with two brass jets, one is t-i-n-y and frequently clogs from sitting unused. The ultrasonic cleaner will get even these clean, nearly all the time. On the rare occasion where they need a bit of help due-to accretions in that small passageway, I use a pin drill and a single fine strand of stainless wire to clear it. These carbs are pre-cleaning. Usually problems with current gas formulations can be avoided by draining the float bowls as no-gas means no evaporation to leave-behind solids.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

I rebuilt the four Mikunis on my Yamaha bike. The first two turned dark so I called Mikuni. Fellow there said they use 5% Simple Green in distilled water, ultrasonic cleaner with heat.
I tried that and they came out looking new.
I blew out passages, ultrasonic bath again then blew out a second final time.

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

 

[Brand X]

The little passages on small Honda outboards are best suited to be cleaned with a ultrasonic cleaner. Kind of doubt Cary works on many of those down on the farm..

 

[tncatadjuster]

The little passages on small Honda outboards are best suited to be cleaned with a ultrasonic cleaner. Kind of doubt Cary works on many of those down on the farm..

Ultrasonic is a great tool. Once you learn how to operate the machine, mine has a five gallon capacity and works best on one oz of simple green and five drops of dawn. It takes a few hours for the micro bubbles to go away so the fluid can do the work then it's great for almost anything.

Again it takes a while for the fluid work properly, bubbles rob energy. I loaned it to a friend that used too much simple green and kept the fluid fresh for each carb, therefore he was never seeing the potential of the design. It's not a washing machine.

 

[kctyphoon]

Funny, guy at work just me told this happens sometimes with aluminum if you set the heat too high.

 

[volaredon]

I just did one in my sonic cleaner for an old 8hp Briggs. Cleaned inside up real nice on first cycle thru, (mine will only do 30 min at a time) 1st carb that I had to dump the water and simple green mix 3 times before I got this carb clean on the outside too.
it had what looked like a mix of old varnish and sawdust caked on outside that I had to scrub with an old toothbrush between cycles thru the sonic cleaner. usually I get a few carbs thru 1 batch of water + simple green....

I have had carbs with the coating as described by the OP before, I think it is the dirt and **** cleaned off of the carb, that is redeposited on the carb. Change fluid and run it thru 1 more time, you should be good.


I have a 3 liter sonic cleaner, an XMAS present from my son a couple of years ago.... only problem I am having? It isn't big enough for a car carb. and though I have not redone a car carb in a few years, now I find myself with 3 to do.... 2, single barrels off of Slant 6s, and a Carter TQ. the 1 bbls I might be able to do in my cleaner one piece at a time (main body, throttle body and airhorn) but I definitely won't even fit one chunk of that 4 bbl in at any one time.
I used to use the carb dip that eats the skin from my hands back when I used to do more car carbs. anymore, most carbs I do are either Kohler, Briggs and Stratton or Stihl. and they fit in my cleaner just fine.

 

[M6erfan]

I've seen this a lot. It's a reaction caused by caustic solution. The more caustic, the darker & quicker it turns black.

I clean carbs really well with a solvent, usually WD40, to get as much crud off as possible, then give them a jacuzzi in the ultrasonic filled with mineral spirits (kerosene works too), heated. Final step is washing in hot water with Dawn washing liquid, rinse, and blow out with air gun. They come out super clean with no darkening.

 

[travisn1]

Pine sol works great for soaking carbs as well. I've never used it in an untrasonic, might bubble a lot.

 

[tncatadjuster]

The less soap the better has been my experience. There should be just enough surfactant to modify the water so it can clean. It takes time for the solution to become ready for cleaning, mine takes an hour of run time to be properly treated.

What is degassing? When and why should it be done?

"Degassing is the initial removal of gases from your cleaning solution. You can't get any cleaning done until you degas, because all the energy is being used to drive the gases out of the water. You should degas every time you put fresh cleaning solution into your tank."

 

[Ohmthis]

The less soap the better has been my experience. There should be just enough surfactant to modify the water so it can clean. It takes time for the solution to become ready for cleaning, mine takes an hour of run time to be properly treated.

What is degassing? When and why should it be done?

"Degassing is the initial removal of gases from your cleaning solution. You can't get any cleaning done until you degas, because all the energy is being used to drive the gases out of the water. You should degas every time you put fresh cleaning solution into your tank."

So you run the machine roughly an hour before trying to clean? Care to offer up your cleaning solution?

 

[M6erfan]

So you run the machine roughly an hour before trying to clean? Care to offer up your cleaning solution?

More on "degassing" from the company he quoted from...

https://www.besttechnologyinc.com/faq/degassing-ultrasonic-cleaning-tanks/

 

[tncatadjuster]

So you run the machine roughly an hour before trying to clean? Care to offer up your cleaning solution?

To a full tank I add about an 1 oz of simple green and five drops of dawn dish soap. Sounds weak but your only modifying the water so it will do it's job, not using the soap to clean.

 

[humpty]

I do as above^

You have to be careful with alkaline degreasers and aluminum. If you use a heavy concentration than do not soak for too long. Or as tncatadjuster said, just use a bit.

You really just need a little bit to emulsify and suspend the ****. The ultrasound will be doing the heavy lifting.

At my last place we used DI water only for aluminum or a small amount of neutral cleaner, DI water is an outstanding and aggressive cleaner.

humpty

 

[humpty]

Some light reading if anyone is interested.

https://www.tovatech.com/blog/25879/ultrasonic-cleaner/selecting-ultrasonic-cleaning-solutions

humpty

 

[InjectorService]

I use a solution called Bio-Clean. $85 CAD / Gallon, so it probably has some gold dust mixed in. But it does work, and it's gentle.

I tried some purple power once, quite strong. It ate the whole carb plate.

EDIT: Keep your temp lower than 30 degrees Celsius or 100 Fahrenheit as well. More than that and they start to turn white. Should only take 15 min to clean as well. Don't leave overnight or something.