Un-Attended Battery Charging - - Caution

[mobiledynamics]

Can't recall if there was ever a thread on GJF about this but does anyone have any concern about leaving their batteries charging unattended.

We're not talking about the Hoverboard Fiasco but I was reading something awhile back, dudes garage caught on fire. Fire Dept. determined the root cause was his, ahem, Milwaukee batteries that were left unattended charging.

Myself, it's not really on my radar of -concern- about un-attended charging.
With that said, which is still -new- to me, is I keep the kids LIPO stuff in a metal box when not in use.

Ha, I do recall a thread I started on LIPO safety on GJF after I just posted the last sentence.

 

[Lucid Moments]

Not a concern of mine at all. I have a couple of DeWalt 20V batteries out on the charger right now and I am nowhere close to it, and I routinely leave my truck that I don't drive daily hooked up to a battery maintainer.

 

[Packard V8]

does anyone have any concern about leaving their batteries charging unattended. . . . . Ha, I do recall a thread I started on LIPO safety on GJF after I just posted the last sentence.

Like to stir up shite, do you?

Yes, put enough unattended appliances plugged in and eventually one will combust. Happens to coffee pots, toasters, hair curlers and several makes of electric vehicles.

Yes, put enough piles of dirty rags in corners and eventually one will combust.

Yes, put enough rats chewing through insulation and eventually there'll be combustion.

Yes, enough harried parents trying to get kids to school and themselves to work and eventually one will leave a pot of oatmeal on a gas burner and the fire department will be there.

Yes, there are meteor strikes on the earth every day. If I keeping the kids LIPO stuff in a metal box when not in use give one piece of mind, no harm in so doing.

jack vines, who lives dangerously and leaves all manner of chargers plugged in every day.

 

[Terra Nova]

Is it an issue for power tool batteries? Probably not, but they charge so fast why leave them on the charger? I don't leave anything charging overnight/unattended.

Been to far too many house fires that started from battery maintainers. 12v lead acid batteries are cheap, certainly cheaper than burning your house down, just buy a new one when needed.

 

[CoogarXR]

I have been doing electronics repair for years, and I don't trust anything, lol.

I never leave anything charge overnight (not even my phone). My cordless batteries only take about 40 minutes to charge. When I kill one, it's usually mid-project, and I just swap in a fresh battery, put the dead one on charge, and keep working. 99% of the time it's done charging before the project is done.

Somebody (on here) told me to stop using a battery maintainer and just disconnect my car battery while storing the car and it will keep all winter. I didn't believe it, but I gave it a shot. And it worked! So I don't bother with battery maintainers anymore either.

 

[cmandp]

I try not to leave my power tool batteries on the charger mostly because I don't want them to be constantly charging, reducing their life. But also because of the chance of fire.

That said I leave our nice weather car hooked up to the battery maintainer for weeks. Probably a little more risky for many reasons, one of which is the questionable wiring in the garage .

Do what makes you comfortable but knowing that there is always a risk somewhere.

 

[Ton ton]

I thought this was about car batteries.

 

[mobiledynamics]

I stopped leaving the Garage Queens on trickle (ctek) as well these days too. Not due to hazard concern though
All of mine have dedicated pigtails to plug into trickle, and would sit connected on them indefinitely.

One $$$ AGM went toast and the only thing I could attribute was due to the trickle charger.
I've since just connected them -whenever it comes to mind- just to keep the 12V in the cars topped off.

 

[zendriver]

Troll thread

Actually, my wife is home so I have her watch them 24 x 7

 

[1cargarage]

I shut off my main breaker and all the breakers in the sub-panel, and all the switches to everything, and discharge all batteries before going to bed each night.

The fish, the dogs, and I all sleep with ESD grounding tethers too. I can't sleep without one at this point.

I even disconnect and discharge the 9V batteries in the smoke alarms. Those are critical safety devices in the home - wouldn't want one to burn up when left unattended.

 

[vavet]

I've read similar experiences. I usually leave my ipad plugged in overnight. I make a point now to remove my power tool batteries from the chargers when they are done. I have 3D printed holders for them on the same wall caddy that has the chargers, so they go on those holders when they are charged. I don't wake up in a cold sweat and have to walk out in 20 degree weather to make sure I took it off the charger, but if I see when I'm in the shop, I remove it.
I also leave my 3d printer to run overnight and when we're not home. I run the clothes dryer and the dishwasher when we're all asleep. I'm a bad boy like that...the kind of guy you'd never want your daughter to talk to.

 

[jonshonda]

Guy I work with was a fire fighter, and currently does inspections for the local department. He has his chargers on the same switch his lights are on, if that makes a difference to anyone. Said there have been enough cases of tool and car battery chargers catching fire to warrant concern.

 

[southernfriedcj]

Lance from Pirate 4x4 had a charging LI(iirc) battery explode while it was charging in his RV while driving down the road.
Burned the RV down and he had leg burns.

It was several years ago and my memory may be off.

Since then I don't leave tool batteries charging unattended.

 

[sz0k30]

As far as car batteries, I have had several car batteries on "Battery Tenders" for about 8 months a year for many years now. Never an issue and never any worries.

 

[Blind1]

Dozens of people were trapped in their bunks on a dive boat because of this issue. Burning alive trapped in a cramped bunk room doesn’t seem like a good way to go.

Batteries get removed from the charger and stored in a dry place.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I only charge my Li-ion phone while I sleep.

 

[zendriver]

What do the owners manual of these products state?

This is actually a real problem, they could be setting themselves up for some serious liability claims, if they don’t tell the user to remove a charged battery promptly

Personally I’ve never worried about it, but I guess I’ll start now

 

[Copymutt]

BIL lost his garage and decades of hunting,fishing,tools. Including two boats and 4 wheeler. Cause was a charger plugged into his fish finder. Three yrs. latter he’s still dealing w/ being made whole by insurance and lawyer fees trying to recover. His new garage is pretty sweet. Guess what he no longer leaves plugged in when not there?

 

[u3b3rg33k]

What do the owners manual of these products state?

This is actually a real problem, they could be setting themselves up for some serious liability claims, if they don’t tell the user to remove a charged battery promptly

Personally I’ve never worried about it, but I guess I’ll start now

li-ion chargers stop charging when the battery is full. you know, when the light turns green? if it didn't, then it would light EVERY BATTERY ON FIRE, EVERY TIME. because that's what happens when you actually overcharge Li-ion.

 

[slodat]

This is totally a thing. My chargers are in my lighting controls. Chargers are only powered up when lights are on, which means I’m in the shop. I also installed several smoke detectors to alert me. My shop is big with a lot of rooms.

I had an electrical fire in a rental property two weeks ago. First hand experience- you don’t want a fire. Even with really good insurance.

Cordless tool charging station?

So I have a lot of cordless tools at my shop. I have chargers scattered on top of my toolbox locker, stainless top of my other toolbox, etc.. I'm looking for ideas on how to get them all on a rack maybe or something where I can run them to a power strip and charge everything same area so I'm not...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[ace10]

I stand, motionless, at full attention while charging a battery or battery-powered device.

 

[tdkkart]

And yet, how many of you have a SamSung TV plugged in 24-7 whether it's on or not?? Most don't worry about it, but in my experience
I've never personally seen a battery charger start a fire, but a friend/former neighbor's house burnt due to the SamSung TV catching fire while they were out one evening, thing wasn't even on when it lit up.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I stand, motionless, at full attention while charging a battery or battery-powered device.

My computer is on a UPS. I make sure to unplug it and let it run down to empty every night before bed.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Yes, there are meteor strikes on the earth every day. If I keeping the kids LIPO stuff in a metal box when not in use give one piece of mind, no harm in so doing.

About that: https://www.space.com/meteorite-near-miss-bedroom-canada

 

[dutchgray]

In my house, at night or when I am out, the only electrical stuff that is left powered is the heating system, fridge freezer, alarm radio and internet router.
Outlets have switches here so its pretty easy and it does save the standby power wastage.

 

[zendriver]

li-ion chargers stop charging when the battery is full. you know, when the light turns green? if it didn't, then it would light EVERY BATTERY ON FIRE, EVERY TIME. because that's what happens when you actually overcharge Li-ion.

Thank you for answering my loaded question.

So this is all pretty much about nothing?

 

[jonshonda]

Thank you for answering my loaded question.

So this is all pretty much about nothing?

Clarify?

 

[zendriver]

Clarify?

Sure, Apparentlythe manufactures don’t see leaving a battery on chargers a problem. Since a lot of the chargers are “maintainers” as well

but when I come to a message board it’s a problem.

Which is it?

 

[Al Borland]

I shut off my main breaker and all the breakers in the sub-panel, and all the switches to everything, and discharge all batteries before going to bed each night.

The fish, the dogs, and I all sleep with ESD grounding tethers too. I can't sleep without one at this point.

I even disconnect and discharge the 9V batteries in the smoke alarms. Those are critical safety devices in the home - wouldn't want one to burn up when left unattended.

Greta:
"I also have an electrician take down my power lines and pull my meter each night, just to be safe. Then we disconnect the gas, vent and purge the gas lines, drain the heating oil, inert the tank and cut it into pieces."

 

[Ign]

If anything I'd be worried about the stupid battery in my MiFi ("jetpack", air card, whatever marketing term you wanna use)

I keep replacing them but they all swell with time

 

[Terra Nova]

Sure, Apparentlythe manufactures don’t see leaving a battery on chargers a problem. Since a lot of the chargers are “maintainers” as well

but when I come to a message board it’s a problem.

Which is it?

These threads come down to a persons comfort with risk, there will not be a black and white answer to the question.

Will a battery left on the charger too long unequivocally catch on fire? Of course not, nor will one left on the charger too long unequivocally NOT catch on fire... Reality is somewhere in the middle. It comes down to how willing is someone to take that risk. That is biased by their own experiences and thought processes. Many here carry handguns daily, and likely have never been assaulted or had their life threatened, but they still carry for that once in a lifetime event.

Look at the thread, those championing not leaving them on the charger have first or second hand experience with fires started by charging batteries. Their tolerance of risk is biased by these events. Those who have not have a different opinion

 

[mrjaw14]

when I was a teenager and didn't know better I bought a Coleman..you read that right...set of 18v tools. first time on the charger the battery started smoking and bubbling. Rushed it outside and when it cooled down I returned it.

 

[Steve_P]

I've read multiple accounts of fires caused from charging cordless tool batteries. Yeah, it's probably one in a million, but if you can put a timer on the charger, or hook it to the light switch, that'd be a good idea IMO. I try and only charge my stuff when I'm in the garage with it. But I've forgotten a few times and left it on overnite.

 

[mobiledynamics]

Somehow I knew the stove, the meter, the shutoff valves on the washer would come into play.

I wouldn't say all li-ion chargers do and stop charging when fully charged...

I've been using a battery operated TENS therapy like unit on my knee. It charges on a wall wart.
Haven't opened it up yet, but a wild guess is a cheap 18650 or 27000 battery in it.
I totally forgot to take it off the charger and came back to it few hrs later (it was fully charged) but the case was still quite warm when I unplugged it
With that said, I am mindful to not leave battery'esque things to be plugged unattended from unknown manuf.


Won't lose sleep if the Milwaukee battery was on the charger, or the iPhones, iPads ,etc. Or the home telco phone that uses AAA Sanyo envelops in them.
But with so many of the responses it this thread, it does seem to infer that there is some risk to it...even with known trusted brands.

 

[danski0224]

I know someone that almost lost their house to a cordless tool battery charger, charging a battery. Required a gut remodel due to smoke damage.

Was on a job where one started smoldering and set off the fire alarm. The FD came out and said that battery charger issues weren't exactly uncommon. I was nearby when it happened and saw the smoke.

Both were major brands, not HF junk.

Both instances happened before Li-Ion tool batteries.

I wouldn't dismiss the thought that a relatively cheap cordless tool battery charger *might* cause a problem.

Are recent production tool battery chargers any better (say, within the last 10 years), maybe due to Li-Ion batteries? Got me. I don't know.

I don't leave mine charging while unattended.

 

[Badgerstate]

Can't recall if there was ever a thread on GJF about this but does anyone have any concern about leaving their batteries charging unattended.

We're not talking about the Hoverboard Fiasco but I was reading something awhile back, dudes garage caught on fire. Fire Dept. determined the root cause was his, ahem, Milwaukee batteries that were left unattended charging.

Myself, it's not really on my radar of -concern- about un-attended charging.
With that said, which is still -new- to me, is I keep the kids LIPO stuff in a metal box when not in use.

Ha, I do recall a thread I started on LIPO safety on GJF after I just posted the last sentence.

I routinely leave my tool battery chargers charging in the garage unattended. Heck, Ive got a Milwaukee M12 jobsite radio right now out there with a battery charging in it and its left plugged in 24/7.
Of all the things that I worry about, a fire from an unattended battery charger is not something that I worry about. If youre going to worry about that, then you might as well just kill the power to your garage every time your not using it because youre just as likely to get a fire from bad wiring as you are from a faulty battery charger.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

These threads come down to a persons comfort with risk, there will not be a black and white answer to the question.

Will unequivocally a battery left on the charger too long catch on fire? Of course not, nor will unequivocally a battery left on the charger too long NOT catch on fire... Reality is somewhere in the middle. It comes down to how willing is someone to take that risk. That is biased by their own experiences and thought processes. Many here carry handguns daily, and likely have never been assaulted or had their life threatened, but they still carry for that once in a lifetime event.

Look at the thread, those championing not leaving them on the charger have first or second hand experience with fires started by charging batteries. Their tolerance of risk is biased by these events. Those who have not have a different opinion

no, it's very black and white. lithium battery chargers STOP CHARGING at whatever voltage is max SoC for that pack. this MUST happen. exceeding max pack voltage WILL cause the pack to fail catastrophically. On average, 4.0V is peak voltage, but often you manage the battery somewhere under that.

the other side of that are defects. chargers that don't stop (e.g. garbage from the internet for too-good-to-be-true prices). batteries that are defective. aftermarket batteries that are now the wrong voltage for the original charger.

perfect example: the Chevy Bolt.


any pack with batteries in series requires some kind of BMS so the charger can avoid exceeding the voltage of any single cell (or parallel group of cells) - to top up or finish charging an M18 pack (i.e. while it's flashing slow green) requires the use of bleed resistors.

another example is eGO batteries. they actually run them down to 30% on purpose if you leave them unused for a month. even if they're sitting ON THE CHARGER!

simple little things with a single cell don't have this added complexity, it can be done in the charger.

 

[mobiledynamics]

interesting read on the eGo's. Are they using standard 18650/27000 cells. AFAIK, ideal storage conditions is a hair above 2/3 full

 

[jhelrey]

I have had a Dewalt battery pack start to smoke before in the middle of a clinic. Luckily someone saw it. The battery and charger both went into recycling. I try not to leave any batteries plugged in over night.

 

[reader2580]

I unplug my Makita LXT chargers when not in use. Not for safety reasons. They seem to waste power while plugged in so I unplug them.

I have AGM starting batteries in my motorhome that are 11 years old and still working great. They have been kept on a Battery Tender any time the motorhome is at home.