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Underground Building Techniques..

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IdahoMan

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Hi all.

I don't know how OT this might be considered, but I have seen several threads on this forum that deal with digging and concrete.

Thought I'd share this. Not mine, I found it on YouTube.


I ask the question:

What kind of underground building techniques have you seen/know of?
How would you build a shelter without resorting to full excavation? (Say you wanted to put something under an existing structure, or don't want to disturb large trees)


Sincerely,
IM
 
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the gypsy

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Instead of using a pick axe, why don't they use an electric breaker to break off the clay/earth off the walls? They would probably get more work done and be less tired.
 
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theoldwizard1

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The biggest issue with underground building is moisture/water.

In soil that is self-supporting (NOT sand) you can install drainage around the perimeter going to a pit and a sump pump. Of course that assumes you have electricity.

You could coat the walls with gunite or pour a floor and build 2x4 PT walls with plastic vapor barrier on the outside and insulation and green drywall.


The fastest way to build an underground room is "cut and cover". Dig the hole, build your structure, cover it up.
 
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metal1313

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judging by the masks, they may not have been doing this 100% legal. it looks like a well constructed opening to a drug tunnel. its cool work but something makes me feel like this isnt a "shelter"
 
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73RR

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..shelter...?:headscrat

That is a bunch of work that could have been done from the outside but apparently 'they' did not want 'someone' to know what they were up to.
Under those conditions a cave-in would be difficult to recover bodies from.
 
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rburke65

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What kind of a shelter? Just get a track hoe, dig out the dirt and bury a shipping container and recover! Done.
 
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jives

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Watch the movie "The Great Escape". At least it was the good guys tunneling in this movie.
 
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IdahoMan

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theoldwizard1 said:
The biggest issue with underground building is moisture/water.

In soil that is self-supporting (NOT sand) you can install drainage around the perimeter going to a pit and a sump pump. Of course that assumes you have electricity.

You could coat the walls with gunite or pour a floor and build 2x4 PT walls with plastic vapor barrier on the outside and insulation and green drywall.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the helpful response.

I agree. Especially true if the structure will be used to store delicate valuables, it would have to be cool and humidity-free (uninsulated and at a depth of around 8ft sound right?). If no electricity is present, a desiccant system could be used to rid any humidity that enters during the times the entrance is open. I assume this would mean a form of waterproofing on all sides (bottom included).

Is there a tried-and-true method of waterproofing that will last several generations? A thick coating of some kind of flexible goop, followed by a thick tarp of some kind I assume? (The big tunnels have what looks like seamless "tarp", but it's on the inside. PIC)

What about steel-reinforced concrete? Steel+water=bad, and concrete is porous.

theoldwizard1 said:
The fastest way to build an underground room is "cut and cover". Dig the hole, build your structure, cover it up.
Click to expand...

Yes, though sometimes you have to go under an existing structure, don't want to disturb 100+yr old trees, or need to be covert.
 
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Firebrick43

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bgarrett said:
Ferro-cement has been used for hundreds of years for containers to hold water and to make boats. It makes sense that if it will hold water, it will also keep water out. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrocement
Click to expand...

There is no way to keep water out for good except by natural gravity drainage. Hydraulic pressure under ground ensures water will find away in. That means an electric pump or digging trenches for a tile if you have enough elevation to bring the end to daylight.
 
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red61cj5

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I once read an article about using big septic tanks (preferably new) as underground shelters. waterproof, strong, the manufacturer will place it in the ground for you no questions asked. I think it was intended as a root cellar, but still...
 
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IdahoMan

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theoldwizard1 said:
"You could coat the walls with gunite or pour a floor and build 2x4 PT walls with plastic vapor barrier on the outside and insulation and green drywall."
Click to expand...

How does a good, strong concrete hold up if direcrtly burried with no waterproofing? I mean, it shouldn't dissolve or corrode very much over several generations should it? Should there be steel in it, or no?

Because maybe waterproofing on the inside would be easier when you can't cut-and-cover. That way you could use ShotCrete (gunite?) or cylinder-shaped structure made of a smaller version of this. Or just pre-cast.

I imagine inside waterproofing would be easier to replace in case of a mishap too.
 
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IdahoMan

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Firebrick43 said:
There is no way to keep water out for good except by natural gravity drainage. Hydraulic pressure under ground ensures water will find away in. That means an electric pump or digging trenches for a tile if you have enough elevation to bring the end to daylight.
Click to expand...

Tile?
 
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Firebrick43

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tacostand said:
This reminds me of when Blue Lou Morini says, 'Chicken wire?' in The Blues Brothers. :D

The tile in this case is drain tile.

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=drain+tile&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Click to expand...

Tacostand said it right, drain tile. Concrete is hydroscopic, mean water is readily attracted to it and transported through it. Maybe not of garden hose proportions but still enough to make it damp and if any cracks form, sand all concrete crack, then possibly of garden hose proportions. Waterproofing has never been sufficient alone either. Ferrocement tanks and boat do leak, even fiberglass and plastic tanks will transport small amounts of water vapor. Most of the time these vessels it's inconvenient to inconsequential. Tanks holding liquids in, any minimal osmosis of water is taken care of by evaporation and boats have bailing pumps.

If you want a dry underground structure you have to have drainage or a dump and pumps. In fact some soils hold enough water if you bury a tank or have a pool and it's not filled, it will float right out of the ground due to buoyancy. You have to drain the soil somehow. If you have ever been in underground tunnels, they are damp wet places and very few don't have pumps going constantly to keep them dewatered.

By cutting the soil back, building the structure, placing tile, waterproofing/using a drain plane or dimple board, then back filling with gravel makes for a good dry structure if you have gravity drainage and you don't build on a natural spring.

https://www.google.com/search?q=floating+septic+tank&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=sinv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjw9pLSmbfSAhVK_IMKHVwWDtEQ_AUICSgC&biw=320&bih=460


https://www.google.com/search?q=pool+floating+out+of+ground&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiClr_QmrfSAhXKx4MKHSGzD3YQ_AUICSgC&biw=320&bih=460
 
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