Underground PEX water supply?

[stick004]

I am in the procress of my detached 50' X 30' build and will be running a water line from my house to the garage (roughly 350'). My plan was to run a 3/4" PEX line in the same trench as my electric. I would put the water down first at 36" deep, cover with dirt to 24", then run my 100amp service line in conduit at the required 24" depth.

My question is, Do I NEED to put the PEX in it's own conduit. Obviously it would be better if it was, but with cost in mind, I'd rather not. I plan to put a little water meter in at main tee in the house so I can tell if the thing as sprung a leak and draining into my lawn.

There is currently a sleeve in my foundation that is has a 10' PEX stub and 3" drain running through it to get into and up through the floor to be poured possibly this week.

Code says no, But I thought I would get a bigger "user experience" opinion here a GJ.

Thanks! Nic

 

[ishiboo]

I am in the procress of my detached 50' X 30' build and will be running a water line from my house to the garage (roughly 350'). My plan was to run a 3/4" PEX line in the same trench as my electric. I would put the water down first at 36" deep, cover with dirt to 24", then run my 100amp service line in conduit at the required 24" depth.

My question is, Do I NEED to put the PEX in it's own conduit. Obviously it would be better if it was, but with cost in mind, I'd rather not. I plan to put a little water meter in at main tee in the house so I can tell if the thing as sprung a leak and draining into my lawn.

There is currently a sleeve in my foundation that is has a 10' PEX stub and 3" drain running through it to get into and up through the floor to be poured possibly this week.

Code says no, But I thought I would get a bigger "user experience" opinion here a GJ.

Thanks! Nic

Pex is okay for direct burial, but most people around here sleeve it in some CPVC for ease of maintenance if the need ever arises. It needs to be buried in soft dirt or sand, no rocks in direct contact/etc.

Where are you located? 36" is fine in parts of the US, but in the north the frost line in many areas is 48" and so water lines are typically buried about 6' down. You could very well be in an area with 36", just not sure

 

[Will67]

Maybe sleeve with class 125 PVC, that is probably cheapest pipe I can think of.

 

[pstnbly]

160 psi polyethelene pipe is rated for direct burial

 

[stick004]

Pex is okay for direct burial, but most people around here sleeve it in some CPVC for ease of maintenance if the need ever arises. It needs to be buried in soft dirt or sand, no rocks in direct contact/etc.

Where are you located? 36" is fine in parts of the US, but in the north the frost line in many areas is 48" and so water lines are typically buried about 6' down. You could very well be in an area with 36", just not sure

I'm 20mins west of St. Louis MO. frost line here is 36". I plan to winterize the garage lines in the coldest months anyways because I don't like the size of the heating bill in the winter to keep the garage above freezing 24/7. That way nothing blows up while I'm at work.

160 psi polyethelene pipe is rated for direct burial

That's what I bought!

 

[Highbeam]

The proper pipe is black poly, I like 200 psi poly. It might be called HDPE in your area but not PEX, that's house plumbing pipe.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

I am in the procress of my detached 50' X 30' build and will be running a water line from my house to the garage (roughly 350'). My plan was to run a 3/4" PEX line in the same trench as my electric. I would put the water down first at 36" deep, cover with dirt to 24", then run my 100amp service line in conduit at the required 24" depth.

My question is, Do I NEED to put the PEX in it's own conduit. Obviously it would be better if it was, but with cost in mind, I'd rather not. I plan to put a little water meter in at main tee in the house so I can tell if the thing as sprung a leak and draining into my lawn.

There is currently a sleeve in my foundation that is has a 10' PEX stub and 3" drain running through it to get into and up through the floor to be poured possibly this week.

Code says no, But I thought I would get a bigger "user experience" opinion here a GJ.

Thanks! Nic

CODE SAYS NO

So you would ask the forum members what their experience is versus the laws that your community has adopted as part of it's uniform building code and connect your drinking water lines to what ever type of material that the forum users might guide you towards using.

WHAT!?

Seeing as how you already know that you can not use this material to run your water lines you must already know exactly what would be allowed by code. I am correct.

So what are you doing? Are you hoping to save a little money? Are you considering that the CODE which you are ignoring is just a bunch of BS that does not apply to you?

The code is in place to keep the water supply safe for you and all other people. Safe as in not poisoning you.

The only answer here is for you to put in what is code required.

 

[stick004]

CODE SAYS NO

So you would ask the forum members what their experience is versus the laws that your community has adopted as part of it's uniform building code and connect your drinking water lines to what ever type of material that the forum users might guide you towards using.

WHAT!?

Seeing as how you already know that you can not use this material to run your water lines you must already know exactly what would be allowed by code. I am correct.

So what are you doing? Are you hoping to save a little money? Are you considering that the CODE which you are ignoring is just a bunch of BS that does not apply to you?

The code is in place to keep the water supply safe for you and all other people. Safe as in not poisoning you.

The only answer here is for you to put in what is code required.

The Code says NO, I DON'T have to put it in conduit if it is rated for direct burial. I was merely asking the forum what their opinion was reguarding this. If it was worth the extra protection or have some other thought about putting it in conduit anyways. Thanks for your insight though... Glad you read my post clearly.

 

[stick004]

The proper pipe is black poly, I like 200 psi poly. It might be called HDPE in your area but not PEX, that's house plumbing pipe.

See page 22 of this. Along with code, this is my go-by.
http://www.vanguard.ca/guides/VG_PEX_install_Guide.pdf

Black poly is not rated for potable water. It is used primarily for lawn sprinkler systems.

 

[chickenhauler]

I always run lines in some type of conduit, PEX especially since it doesn't take much to make a pin hole in PEX. I usually use 3 or 4" pvc. Plus, it's nice to be able to snake something else through down the road.

 

[csp]

Seeing as how you already know that you can not use this material to run your water lines you must already know exactly what would be allowed by code. I am correct.

Instead of blasting people why don't you get some clarification of what the user is asking. Duh!

It seemed quite obvious to me that the OP was asking about pex in a conduit vs. not using a conduit.

He wasn't asking if he could use PEX.

Just because you're a freaking plumber doesn't mean you have to be on a high-horse all the time.

 

[ishiboo]

Just because you're a freaking plumber doesn't mean you have to be on a high-horse all the time.

He's a union plumber, and he's entitled to be on that high horse.

 

[ishiboo]

See page 22 of this. Along with code, this is my go-by.
http://www.vanguard.ca/guides/VG_PEX_install_Guide.pdf

Black poly is not rated for potable water. It is used primarily for lawn sprinkler systems.

Black poly is sold in both NSF (potable) and non-NSF (sprinkler/etc) forms for only a very minor price difference. If you have a long run, it's far cheaper than PEX, though the wall thickness is less and I think it'd be more susceptible to leaks/etc.

 

[GTO]

Instead of blasting people why don't you get some clarification of what the user is asking. Duh!

It seemed quite obvious to me that the OP was asking about pex in a conduit vs. not using a conduit.

He wasn't asking if he could use PEX.

Just because you're a freaking plumber doesn't mean you have to be on a high-horse all the time.

 

[waterman28]

Black polly, 200 psi is NSF, fairly thick wall, AWWA compliant and about .39 per foot. Used by many water departments for service lines in my area.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

I fully read and understood the question as posed by the OP.

The sleeve element may be regulated by code as well. And the PEX in a conduit may be regulated in his area by code as well. You should ask your plumbing inspector about what type of sleeving to use if this is possible.

If you use the wrong type of sleeving on your piping under ground the vibrations from the fluid motions will cause an area of wear and a leak. Yes, even on that thick piping.

All of this would be best addressed by your local plumbing inspector who has the knowledge and experience to help you make the best choices.
His opinions would and should supercede those of the forum. Although I'm sure some on here would disagree.

I find it rather comical that the guys who are suggesting all types of differing materials without knowledge of your location, soils types, water minerals content, water pressures or terrain structure are accusing me of being on a high horse for insisting that you contact the plumbing inspector.

I would not give that type of advice sight unseen, location unknown, parameters unknown. That would be irresponsible, but I guess I only realize that because of my Licensed Training in Public Safety concerning water for human consumption. Maybe my time as an inspector, or maybe my 30 years of real time experience in the field or my 20 years of holding a cross connection license or having dug up so many similar situations of under ground chaffe line wear on water services. Giddyyup.

I'm certain that the OP would rather not have a line leak on his sub service feeding his garage and have possible bacterial infestation of his water by a bacterium or virus being drawn into his water lines.

Perhaps my answer was a bit rough sounding, that may be in some part a response to the inspections topic not being properly addressed.
I'd really rather not see people poison themselves to save a couple of bucks but find that it is sadly a constant battle to prevent them from doing so.

Many a person has called me a filthy vulgar name for locking out their water service and preventing them from drinking their own feces drawn back into their drinking water. Most thank me a few days after they stop having intestinal cramps.

 

[stick004]

I fully read and understood the question as posed by the OP.

The sleeve element may be regulated by code as well. And the PEX in a conduit may be regulated in his area by code as well. You should ask your plumbing inspector about what type of sleeving to use if this is possible.

If you use the wrong type of sleeving on your piping under ground the vibrations from the fluid motions will cause an area of wear and a leak. Yes, even on that thick piping.

All of this would be best addressed by your local plumbing inspector who has the knowledge and experience to help you make the best choices.
His opinions would and should supercede those of the forum. Although I'm sure some on here would disagree.

I find it rather comical that the guys who are suggesting all types of differing materials without knowledge of your location, soils types, water minerals content, water pressures or terrain structure are accusing me of being on a high horse for insisting that you contact the plumbing inspector.

I would not give that type of advice sight unseen, location unknown, parameters unknown. That would be irresponsible, but I guess I only realize that because of my Licensed Training in Public Safety concerning water for human consumption. Maybe my time as an inspector, or maybe my 30 years of real time experience in the field or my 20 years of holding a cross connection license or having dug up so many similar situations of under ground chaffe line wear on water services. Giddyyup.

I'm certain that the OP would rather not have a line leak on his sub service feeding his garage and have possible bacterial infestation of his water by a bacterium or virus being drawn into his water lines.

Perhaps my answer was a bit rough sounding, that may be in some part a response to the inspections topic not being properly addressed.
I'd really rather not see people poison themselves to save a couple of bucks but find that it is sadly a constant battle to prevent them from doing so.

Many a person has called me a filthy vulgar name for locking out their water service and preventing them from drinking their own feces drawn back into their drinking water. Most thank me a few days after they stop having intestinal cramps.

Don't you think I have already consulated not only the licensed plumber that signed off on my rough-in, but also the local authorities to review the code I have already stated doesn't require it?

Your attitude is a prime example I have yet let a union member step on my property. They all cost 3X as much, are NEVER wrong, and leave the job site a disaster because for some reason they all believe it's the next crews job to clean up their mess before they get to work...

And yes... I have and will always support right-to-work.

Thank you to everyone else, the opinions are greatly appreciated and well taken. Since my run is well over 300' with mutiple turns, the practicality of just pulling a new line through is low.

And, after considering the advice of soil type and risk of puncture, I have decided not to run it in conduit due to the very good/clean soil it will be layed in.

Thanks guys!

 

[Tman]

He's a union plumber, and he's entitled to be on that high horse.

Screw Unions.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

How many of the guys on here that answered you are licensed plumbers?

How many guys answered your question with consult the inspector?

When a licensed qualified professional directs you to consult your regional inspectional services you should consider that good and respectful free advice.

I would if I came to your home and were presented the same situation consult the code book, if the answer were not evident I would consult the plumbing inspector.

If you have a plumbing contractor there assuming the responsibilty for the installation, I think it would be his concern as to how your water service is being protected.

You should understand: The water line it's installation, it's backfill, it's sleeving, the concrete penetration are all set to a certain standard of code. The system should be installed per your local code. No one including myself should offer any other advice other than to consult your inspector or since you have a plumbing contractor assuming the liability, him.

Whether you can realize it, appreciate it or respect it, my only reason for posting on this thread was to keep you and yours safe from harm in your drinking water supply. Your health, your family's health.

As far as all of the other dramatics, I have no concerns with that.

 

[csp]

I fully read and understood the question as posed by the OP.

Did you? I have my doubts.

How many of the guys on here that answered you are licensed plumbers?

How many guys answered your question with consult the inspector?

The OP already had done his homework in regard to code, as clearly stated. He wanted opinions if he should go beyond code and reasons why or why not.

He didn't ask your "professional opinion" about details he already knew.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Did you? I have my doubts.



The OP already had done his homework in regard to code, as clearly stated. He wanted opinions if he should go beyond code and reasons why or why not.

He didn't ask your "professional opinion" about details he already knew.

Enjoy yourself.

 

[plumbstupid]

I do not know the OP's location. In my neck of the woods pex is not acceptable to use as a service line to any structure. Sleeve or not. It can be used in the slab and to supply all fixtures, but not service the building or home.

 

[Virgil Cain]

CODE SAYS NO

So you would ask the forum members what their experience is versus the laws that your community has adopted as part of it's uniform building code and connect your drinking water lines to what ever type of material that the forum users might guide you towards using.

WHAT!?

Seeing as how you already know that you can not use this material to run your water lines you must already know exactly what would be allowed by code. I am correct.

So what are you doing? Are you hoping to save a little money? Are you considering that the CODE which you are ignoring is just a bunch of BS that does not apply to you?

The code is in place to keep the water supply safe for you and all other people. Safe as in not poisoning you.

The only answer here is for you to put in what is code required.

Frank - I'm pretty sure you've violated about a dozen union rules by what you've posted here. I'm be needing to know what local you belong to, the name of your shop steward, and your union card number. Forget about the code baby, you've violated da Union!

I sure hope your dues are up to date!

 

[tim9lives]

I know this an old thread...But..In case someone refers to it, I thought I would comment.

I'm not a licensed plumber...but from reading the code I have noticed that its a big NO-NO to run water supply line in close vicinity to a waste lane.

In La...they tend to require that the supply line is located a number of inches away and above the waste line to prevent cross contamination if leaks occur.

FWIW...I think we all tend to take for granted 'Potable Water." Clean fresh drinking water is the number one requirement for a healthy society. It is what differentiates us and 3rd world nations. And those "codes" are in place to prevent all of us from decease and harm.

There are some real nasty water born parasites which would wreak havoc on and to us and that is why its important to protect the PUBLIC'S water supply.

So even though this is an old thread...I think Frank is dead on correct and gave very good advice. Those codes are in place to protect all of us.