Underground short

[theoldwizard1]

When my son bought his house in '08 we found out the 10-3 UF to the garage was buried about 4" below the grade. Re-grading exposed it.

So I dug up about 20' of it, from the garage back toward the house, but stopped where it came up under a deck. Drop it down to about 18" below grade. I spliced in about 10' of new UF using an underground splice kit I bought from HD.

Well, yesterday, that line has come up with a dead short.

• Sparkies, what is your experience with that splice kit or do you have a different recommendation (and don't say dig the whole thing up ! It took me like 3 days to dig, patch and refill and I will be 10 years older next year !!)
• There may be another splice NOT done with an "approved" splice kit somewhere
• Even though I know approximately where the splice is, is there a tool that can locate that short so that we can keep the hole as small as possible ?​

 

[OH_Varmntr]

First off, I have no experience with underground splice kits, so no comment there that you would appreciate.

Yes, there are tracers for locating shorts and open wiring conditions. It may be in your best interest to contact a local contractor to have them locate it for you. A quick search yielded a few tracers in the $100 range.

You may even consider abandoning the current cable and having said contractor bury a new cable using a vibratory plow.

 

[TractorJeff]

When you retrenched it, did you lay it in sand?
I would guess a stone poked it?
I agree on the abandon and run a new one.

 

[Bolson32]

I agree on the abandon and run a new one.

Same, run it through Conduit this time.

And rent a trencher

 

[Bert_]

Shorts in UF are a pain to find, I would suspect the splice.

My usual fault locator ( a "pulser" made by progressive electronics) relies on the fault leaking to the ground (dirt), it is very reliable on urd but will not work if the short has not blown though the outer jacket on the UF.

I've tried a couple tools that are supposed to find the distance to the short but haven't found anything that worked reliably.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I love pvc pipe myself.

 

[ard]

"your sons house"

and YOU are digging?!?!?!? thats nuts, IMO

 

[ddawg16]

"your sons house"

and YOU are digging?!?!?!? thats nuts, IMO

That is kinda what parents do. That, and fix their cars....

Well...I'll fix my daughters cars....I'm teaching my boys how to change oil on Sunday.....I'll be damned if they are going out into the world ignorant of basic skills.

 

[CNGsaves]

First thing to do . . . DIG up the SPLICE location. Hope you at least marked or measured that location so you know how to find.

Sprinkler installation companies are DEAD now since winter . . . they might make you deal to use Vibratory Plow and put in conduit for a new run ?? That's what I'd do if messing with spliced up old buried line that's now dead.

 

[bobbyjean]

dunno-i found a trenching spade at lowes for about 25 bucks-works great to take grass layer off ...then just grab your pick and Gently work at it....think if you are careful you can reuse that grass--i... was not to cafeful

 

[TractorJeff]

LOL!
Trenching Spade and someone else "operating" it!
(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

 

[matt_i]

I would rent a trencher and cut in a new conduit(s). I am curious on whether the vibratory plow can cut-in a segmented line like a glued conduit (?) as I thought they had a big continuous roll of black irrigation tube. I saw a guy on youtube do a conduit run with a tractor and a "middlebuster" single tooth plow-point he did some minor mods to allow it to get the pipe down in the bottom of the trench. I believe he had previously glued it all up and laying next to the run.

With the extra conduit one could have TV, additional WiFi access point, or security system...

 

[klassenl]

Before you start digging make sure it is underground. Isolate the wire at the far end and then turn it on.

In our shop we have a good locator/fault finder. Its probably not the best money can buy but it's in the top 5. Even so it can be a little like black magic finding faults underground.

 

[theoldwizard1]

"your sons house"

and YOU are digging?!?!?!? thats nuts, IMO

Actually, I agree !

Lately it has been "Come over and be my go-fer and make sure I am not making any big mistakes !" Experience does help. (I recommend and in wall splice for a remodel that saved a lot of electrical rework.)

 

[theoldwizard1]

I'm teaching my boys how to change oil on Sunday.....

I started handing wrenches to my Dad at about 10 or 12. By the time I was 15 we had 4 cars (3 older sisters) and I was busy doing maintenance on one of them almost every weekend. I don't think Dad changed oil or did a tune up (points and plugs) after that.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Before you start digging make sure it is underground. Isolate the wire at the far end and then turn it on.

Give me a little credit ! That was the first thing we did !

 

[rlitman]

That kit you linked looks fine to me. I can't picture something with a plastic separator like that failing to a dead short, unless it were under salt water perhaps. If that wasn't double wall heat shrink (though it probably is), I'd have probably coated the wire in hot melt glue before shrinking, or coated the ends of the tube with liquid electrical tape, but barring a huge installation error (which I wouldn't expect from you), my guess is that the problem is somewhere else along the line, unless maybe frost heaving pulled the splice apart?

With both sides of the line disconnected, do you get any resistance to ground?

 

[Bert_]

That kit you linked looks fine to me. I can't picture something with a plastic separator like that failing to a dead short, unless it were under salt water perhaps. If that wasn't double wall heat shrink (though it probably is), I'd have probably coated the wire in hot melt glue before shrinking, or coated the ends of the tube with liquid electrical tape, but barring a huge installation error (which I wouldn't expect from you), my guess is that the problem is somewhere else along the line, unless maybe frost heaving pulled the splice apart?

With both sides of the line disconnected, do you get any resistance to ground?

Those splice kits are pretty reliable, but you do need to make sure the wire is very clean otherwise it won't seal. I wouldn't use hot glue or anything else, that heatshrink has a adhesive that melts when you heat it.

If the heatshrink didn't seal properly it lets water into the connection. It starts out with a small amount of current flowing between the wires but it will quickly degrade and turn into a short. I haven't seen it happen much with a splice kit, but a have seen it a bunch of times when someone just makes a splice and wraps it in tape.

 

[Stuff]

I used that same splice kit last year after wire nut and electrical tape splice failed (gas line installers did it - cut it twice in a week).
Six months later the circuit started tripping the GFCI. I haven't fixed it yet but assume I didn't get it clean enough and water got in.

 

[dscheidt]

That is kinda what parents do. That, and fix their cars....

Well...I'll fix my daughters cars....I'm teaching my boys how to change oil on Sunday.....I'll be damned if they are going out into the world ignorant of basic skills.

Teach your daughters, too.

 

[ard]

That is kinda what parents do. That, and fix their cars....

Well...I'll fix my daughters cars....I'm teaching my boys how to change oil on Sunday.....I'll be damned if they are going out into the world ignorant of basic skills.

Oh, I get it. Work on their houses, fix their cars.

But part of our 'deal' is that THEY have the strength and I have the brains. We work it out from there.

For some reason, my offspring werent too interested in cars nor house stuff- UNTIL they had to pay for an oil change or an electrician. Then they got awfully interested....

Teach your daughter how to change a tire. Just in case.

 

[klassenl]

Give me a little credit ! That was the first thing we did !

You would be surprised.