Underground water line – Copper or Poly?

[Beercan321]

I have a well that is going bad so I plan on tapping into public water. While I’m tearing up the yard I plan to also run water to my detached garage. I’ve been getting quotes from plumbers and I’m getting various opinions about what type of tubing to use. A few plumbers told me to run copper from the road to the house. A few others said I should use poly or PVC. The line from the road to my house will be about 300 feet. The guys who told me to use poly said it’s far cheaper than copper and you can run a continuous piece from the road to the house. I guess with copper you need to use couplers or unions to join 100 foot pieces together.

I’m curious what people here think. Which is better for an underground water line, copper or poly? Are there advantages to use one over the other?

Thanks!

 

[Big Bad Dad]

I would go with the plastic underground. We had to dig up a yard a couple years ago at work. One of our houses had a copper line from the meter to the house, and when it was buried and backfilled, a rock got up against it. It either wore, or corroded, about a 1/16" hole in the copper. The water bill was very high for several months until we got it figured out. (The house was about 10 years old.) I still have the cut out section in my office for reference.....

 

[RivennHewn]

The price of copper is way to high these days.

Years ago, it was cost affective to use copper.

I'd go with the poly.

 

[djkeev]

Depends....
There is of course the price of materials to consider.

What is your water like? High mineral content? Acidic? Neutral?

Also your soil, how aggressive is it to various metals?

Copper isn't the perfect material and in certain situations will be eaten away by aggressive water or soils and leak after a Decade or so.

For my money, I'd go with a thick walled high pressure rated poly. If you've got rocks, put a layer of sand below and above the pipe thus heading off punctures. Or / and, put it into a schedule 40 PVC conduit as well.

PVC as the water line is too brittle in my opinion and can easily be cracked by rocks, poor handling, earth movement, etc and leak.

My vote is Black Poly.

Dave

 

[BD1]

Definitely poly. So, you are responsible to run from house to road ? Don't know where you are but by me they have equipment that will knife it in down 4' or more. No need to dig ditch the entire length.

 

[Beercan321]

What is your water like? High mineral content? Acidic? Neutral?

Also your soil, how aggressive is it to various metals?

The well water is very high mineral (rust) content. I have a whole house water filter that is supposed to last 3 to 4 months. I have change the filter once a week.

The soil is a mixture of dirt, clay and rock.

Definitely poly. So, you are responsible to run from house to road ?

The water authority will handle the tap-in to the main line. I am responsible for the rest of the line. I'm hiring someone to do the job.

 

[nanofrog]

Another vote for poly.

 

[DHS]

I vote first 1st PVC 2nd poly, but put either in a sleeve maybe 1 1/4". It would make replacement in the future easy and would also protect the line from damage. I like PVC because repairs are simple and most people keep fittings on hand for repairs.

 

[RECox286]

Poly is the way to go. I have been drinking "plastic" water for 35 years. Never has had

to be dug up for any reason. Even had it frozen tight one really bad winter, and when

it thawed, resumed operation with no casualties. In fact, that winter, any water line

that was less than 4.5 feet deep froze solid for over a week. Copper is good, but

would never have stood up to that kind of abuse. Price of copper is becoming more

prohibitive, so plastic is starting to be the pipe of choice for doing potable

water systems in homes too. Hands down, do the poly pipe.

Uncle Bob

 

[Lippyp]

Over here its HDPE (High Density PolyEthylene) all the way, I've just put some in to take water from the house to the garden and my house is supplied by about 500 foot of it from the mains at the road to the house. No one puts copper underground anymore. Definitely DON'T do PVC, in fact as we speak the water company is replacing the 25 year old PVC mains along my road as they've gone brittle and keep bursting so don't use PVC as it doesn't last. I bedded the new line on sand and put a layer over the top too although its pretty damn tough stuff, my main water line is buried up the edge of a field and has taken large tractors driving over it with no problems.

 

[Long haul]

Local code in my area made me use copper up to the water meter base with stone dust in the trench. You mite want to ccheck your local codes to see what they want you to use. I had to go 900' but the local plumbing supply got me 500' spools to save on any connections, little more money that way but its a nice piece of mind only having one splice.

 

[MrMark]

1 inch soft copper? How much was the 900 feet?

 

[Long haul]

1 inch soft copper? How much was the 900 feet?

Yeah 1" soft copper. I'm not sure exactly but it was close to $1.75 a foot 9 years ago. I did put 1.5" poly in the trench before they back filled it in so if any thing happens to the copper I can just put ends on the poly and plumb it in (i think the poly was $.25 a foot or cheaper at the time)

 

[TennesseeZ]

Schd 80 grey PVC

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I’m curious what people here think. Which is better for an underground water line, copper or poly? Are there advantages to use one over the other?

Thanks!

My experience is in the natural gas business, not water or plumbing, so take this with a grain of salt.

I'd run polyethylene hands down and wouldn't even consider copper. Copper will last a long time in the ground, but will eventually rust through. Plastic doesn't rust. The PE gas line that I'm familier with comes in 500-foot rolls. You could buy a whole roll of PE and you'd have a 300-foot piece to go to the new water meter and 200-feet left over to run to your out building.

Besides the pipe, buy a 500-foot roll of tracer wire and put that in the ditch with the PE. Leave one end hanging loose in the meter pit and bring one end up to some sort of terminator at the house. That way anyone with a pipe locator will be able to find your water line in the future, so it won't get cut during fence installation, additional utility work, etc.

You think you're going to remember exactly where the ditchline was forever, but you don't. Been there....done that. 14 gauge tracer wire runs about 8 cents a foot right now...so you're not talking a big expense. It wouldn't be a horrible idea to keep about 5 feet of your new PE pipe and 2 stab couplings back somewhere as your "emergency repair kit" if it would get cut in the future.

I wouldn't sleeve the PE either. The biggest danger to your PE line once it's buried is someone digging into it with a backhoe, trencher, or posthole auger. A PVC sleeve won't protect you from any of those hazards. A tracer wire might if they bother to use it.


Phil

 

[Chevy72pu]

I vote first 1st PVC 2nd poly, but put either in a sleeve maybe 1 1/4". It would make replacement in the future easy and would also protect the line from damage. I like PVC because repairs are simple and most people keep fittings on hand for repairs.

I just curious about the sleeve. I understand it protecting the PVC from minor issues but wouldn't it make replacement in the future more difficult since, you would have to repair both the sleeve and the PVC?

 

[HeelSpur]

Under ground I've always used poly and sleeved it with 4" corregated pipe.
Zero problems.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

My experience is in the natural gas business, not water or plumbing, so take this with a grain of salt.

I'd run polyethylene hands down and wouldn't even consider copper. Copper will last a long time in the ground, but will eventually rust through. Plastic doesn't rust. The PE gas line that I'm familier with comes in 500-foot rolls. You could buy a whole roll of PE and you'd have a 300-foot piece to go to the new water meter and 200-feet left over to run to your out building.

Besides the pipe, buy a 500-foot roll of tracer wire and put that in the ditch with the PE. Leave one end hanging loose in the meter pit and bring one end up to some sort of terminator at the house. That way anyone with a pipe locator will be able to find your water line in the future, so it won't get cut during fence installation, additional utility work, etc.

You think you're going to remember exactly where the ditchline was forever, but you don't. Been there....done that. 14 gauge tracer wire runs about 8 cents a foot right now...so you're not talking a big expense. It wouldn't be a horrible idea to keep about 5 feet of your new PE pipe and 2 stab couplings back somewhere as your "emergency repair kit" if it would get cut in the future.

I wouldn't sleeve the PE either. The biggest danger to your PE line once it's buried is someone digging into it with a backhoe, trencher, or posthole auger. A PVC sleeve won't protect you from any of those hazards. A tracer wire might if they bother to use it.


Phil

GOOD IDEA on the tracer wire. I think it is being incorporated into the building codes to require it on new construction. We just recently broke a 3" PVC water main while digging at work. It had no tracer, so could not be located. The pipe was 40 feet away from where the site plans showed it to be! Talk about a geyser! LOL

 

[Mr onetwo]

Your local water district will tell you what they want at the main connection.Some places up in Maine only accept "K" copper until the property line.After that we use either 160lb IPS poly or 200lb CTS size poly.I typically use copper tube size 200PSI with compression fitting and sleeves.Run a tracer in the trench so you can find it later.Poly is super tough...sleeving isn't necessary.Never use PVC!!!

 

[DHS]

I just curious about the sleeve. I understand it protecting the PVC from minor issues but wouldn't it make replacement in the future more difficult since, you would have to repair both the sleeve and the PVC?

If someone hits it you repair the sleeve and then replace the line inside. It it leaks on its own in the sleeve then you cut both ends out and then push or pull new line in. I work for the local water dept and everything new put in is HDPE tubing for service lines, and pvc for the water mains, HDPE for directional bores. If you go with poly try to keep it straight, sharp bends are prone to have problems. On the PVC service lines we have if they leak its at a fitting and its almost always because of poor gluing.

 

[Kevin54]

All the wells around here run 1" poly. I'd go with that over copper anytime.

 

[Norcal]

The 1" SCH 40 PVC water line from the well to my house has been in place since 1976, & the one who installed it never bothered to use primer on the joints like they should have, the only problem was when the line was hit by a backhoe bucket 18 years ago, otherwise it has performed flawlessly.


Edit: The poly pipe used on the older well supply line has had issues, I hate the ****, the houses were moved here in 1957 so I suspect the pipe dates back to that time.

 

[e30bradley]

how the hell do you transport a 300ft piece of pipe.. and with copper, how do you move even a 100ft piece?!!

 

[Morrisman]

Local code in my area made me use copper up to the water meter base with stone dust in the trench. You mite want to ccheck your local codes to see what they want you to use. I had to go 900' but the local plumbing supply got me 500' spools to save on any connections, little more money that way but its a nice piece of mind only having one splice.

What sort of archaic code would insist in using copper, where everywhere else in the world has moved on to modern materials?

Maybe copper was the done thing, rather than lead or cast iron, 50 years ago, but nobody uses it nowadays. Unless they just want to be traditional.

 

[Long haul]

What sort of archaic code would insist in using copper, where everywhere else in the world has moved on to modern materials?

Maybe copper was the done thing, rather than lead or cast iron, 50 years ago, but nobody uses it nowadays. Unless they just want to be traditional.

I think a lot of it had to do with the ground being shale the whole length, there wasnt any clay or soil for the most part it was all rock.

The township is messed up, they make private contractors use concrete pipe for storm drains but if the township does the work they use all plastic pipe if that tells you anything.

 

[SARG]

I just replaced my water line. As others have said..... the special plastic is the way to go.

Keep in mind if there was a ground strap associated with metal piping.... then a new ground rod will have to be installed.

 

[Chevy72pu]

If someone hits it you repair the sleeve and then replace the line inside. It it leaks on its own in the sleeve then you cut both ends out and then push or pull new line in. I work for the local water dept and everything new put in is HDPE tubing for service lines, and pvc for the water mains, HDPE for directional bores. If you go with poly try to keep it straight, sharp bends are prone to have problems. On the PVC service lines we have if they leak its at a fitting and its almost always because of poor gluing.

I've got pvc for the supply line to my house, shop, and all of the irrigation system. It is buried in red Georgia clay. When it is dry it's hard as a brick. I agree, the only problems have been in elbows and bends. Just never thought about putting it in a sleeve.

 

[Morrisman]

'Tube in a tube' is standard practice in house plumbing in Norway, or so my buddy here at work tells me. If the inner one leaks, water drains out of the end of the outer one, so you know you have a leak, and it doesn't ruin your house.

 

[Highbeam]

Sleeving a service line is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous than using copper.

Run 200 psi black poly, long lengths come in rolls, and use brass fittings. The only thing I might consider as an alternative is PEX which is what the plumbers really want us to allow underground since they know how to work with it.

Black poly is tough stuff. Not sure if it is even possible to hurt it with a shovel, I've seen it grabbed and yanked with a backhoe but not break.

 

[Falcon67]

Everything used around here is sch. 40 PVC but nobody has a 300' run to the house either. For that run, probably black poly. And best make it big to account for friction pressure loss. The short 40' run to houses here use 3/4" or 1", our little sprinker system runs from the well use 1".

 

[HeelSpur]

Sleeving a service line is ridiculous.

You wouldn't think it was ridiculous if you ever saw what shale does to poly. Every time a pump kicks on theres that little bit of vibration on a sharp piece of shale that eventually cuts right through the poly. So sleeving isn't so ridiculous in certain areas especially shaley areas.

 

[Thorold]

Interesting. I only have to go about 30' and running maybe schedule 40 first sounds like a good idea. Amiright ?

 

[Falcon67]

Interesting. I only have to go about 30' and running maybe schedule 40 first sounds like a good idea. Amiright ?

Our old house that we bought here in 1997 welcomed us the first winter with a nice puddle next to the sidewalk. I replaced the line from the street to the house - about 40' - with sch. 40 PVC. It's still there, still working fine.

 

[ra42mario]

We ran 200 feet of rubber hose for our underground line going to an out building,. It is the same hose you would run for an underground well pump.

It was easy to run, and the most cost effective. Its been installed for 10 years iwth no problems

 

[cj7365]

PVC, this was a 1800' run, I used 20ft sections slipjoint, lube the rubber gasket on one end, hit the other end with a rubber mallet to seat it in


1800ft of 2" PVC was less than $700

 

[lpines]

I'm in Maine and in the Belfast area. I am thinking to use copper from my well to house. (i have a leak now) I was interested in getting any updated info from the Belfast person who gave good specific info in 2011.

 

[Mr onetwo]

PM sent

 

[nadogail]

Here the few newer houses I have purchased were plumbed with poly from the meter to the house.

I have not had to learn about the piping from the main to the meter.

Modern practice seems to favor using Poly, and traditional practice used copper.
I am beginning to accept that many of the new ideas are maybe OK, but I honestly am not convinced all the new stuff is better. Ask anybody who chose to wire their house with Aluminum wire in the fifties.

 

[csp]

Poly has been around and in use for years nadogail. It's far from being a new idea.

 

[dfiler2]

I had to replace mine a couple of years ago, or had the opportunity to because of water main replacements and partially because the length was only about 50 feet, I opted to go with copper. Almost everyone around here goes with plastic, however, I had just come back from a trade show near Toronto where one problem they were encountering more and more was proper grounding issues in places where plastic pipe had become the norm. There was even talk of putting in large steel mats to help solve some problems. I don't know if it really makes any difference or if its even worth considering for that reason but that's why I used copper.