Unimpressed With Milwaukee Gen 4 Hammer Drill

[kngelv]

I recently picked up a new brushless Milwaukee Gen 4 hammer drill/driver combo kit to replace my brushed DeWalt. A few days ago I added an outlet for a sump pump at my ex's house. I had to drill six 3/16 holes with a new Tapcon bit to mount a box and some EMT straps. The block wall was about fifty years old so fully cured. It took quite a bit of effort and time to drill a hole in the block. Am I expecting too much from these so-called hammer drills? Are they only good for fresh block or cement? I guess I'm just not seeing the point of the lame hammer effect and am wondering what these type of drills are good for? I only did three holes with it before I grabbed my 1 1/8 Bosch rotary hammer drill for the other three holes. I guess I'm feeling like maybe I should just get a regular drill because I'm not seeing any value in the hammer aspect of this drill and others like it. Thoughts?

James

 

[dnschmidt]

Hammer drills from any manufacturer ****. Once you use an SDS rotary hammer hammer drills are reduced to toy status. I never buy a hammer drill even though they push the **** out of them as your example illustrates. Milwaukee gives you a two tool kit with a hammer drill where is the two tool kit with just a plain drill? Everybody thinks that they are getting two tools for the price of one. NO YOU ARE NOT. Just buy a plane drill and if you need to screw with concrete it's SDS all the way.

 

[1982fxr]

Dnschmidt, I saw ASTRO tools are on Amazon and looks like other places.

Could you tell us what being a distributor means? What do you do exactly and how do you get into something like that?

I remember reading about your bad experience with that other company, can't remember the name and don't want to get it wrong.

 

[Rabid Badger]

It annoys me that they push the hammer drills so hard that when you can find a regular drill/driver they usually cost more.

 

[NFH2740]

I don't have any complaints with my Gen 2 or 3 hammer drills. I have bored up to 5/8" in concrete.

3/16" pilot holes for tap cons take a few seconds.

 

[Snapped-off]

Gotta ask, did you put it in hammer mode?

 

[KnurledNut]

Something is wrong if its struggling to drill a 3/16 hole in hollow concrete block.
I can punch those with a regular drill or impact without percussion.

 

[pbon]

Was it solid concrete? Some of that 50 year old solid concrete is really good stuff. If it was hollow cinderblock that is different.

 

[mepstein]

I tried a m18 hammer drill and a Dewalt. Neither did much. Got a Bosch and drilled holes like the 40 year old concrete was foam board. Just no comparison.

 

[reader2580]

Most drill bits for Tapcon concrete screws specifically state not to use them with hammer drills.

 

[sparky 1971]

Most drill bits for Tapcon concrete screws specifically state not to use them with hammer drills.

I'm assuming the bits you are referring to are the bits that come with the Tap-cons. I've never read the packaging, so what are the bits supposed to be used in? They aren't SDS.

I don't know what generation my M18 is, it's probably six or seven years old. It's nothing compared to my M12 SDS or the 1-1/8 M18 SDS, but it is nice to grab it when I only have to set a couple of anchors. I will use it to both drill the hole and put the screw in. It's a whole lot faster than getting an SDS out of the case, finding the right bit, getting an impact driver, finding the right bit, carrying everything into someone's house or business, carrying everything back oUt to the truck and putting it away. It works ok in concrete, but not worth a **** in anything hard, especially brick.

 

[Firebrick43]

I recently picked up a new brushless Milwaukee Gen 4 hammer drill/driver combo kit to replace my brushed DeWalt. A few days ago I added an outlet for a sump pump at my ex's house. I had to drill six 3/16 holes with a new Tapcon bit to mount a box and some EMT straps. The block wall was about fifty years old so fully cured. It took quite a bit of effort and time to drill a hole in the block. Am I expecting too much from these so-called hammer drills? Are they only good for fresh block or cement? I guess I'm just not seeing the point of the lame hammer effect and am wondering what these type of drills are good for? I only did three holes with it before I grabbed my 1 1/8 Bosch rotary hammer drill for the other three holes. I guess I'm feeling like maybe I should just get a regular drill because I'm not seeing any value in the hammer aspect of this drill and others like it. Thoughts?

James

Yea, no hammer drill, corded or not is worth much in concrete. I placed all my boxes in my house with icf walls with 4 tapcons requiring 3/16 inch holes. I thought I would do it with a hammer drill as its lighter/cordless and was supprised it took 45 seconds per hole vs 5-8 seconds with my bosch bulldog. Only have hammer drills at work and they such putting 3/8 studs into the floor.

 

[sparky 1971]

I tried a m18 hammer drill and a Dewalt. Neither did much. Got a Bosch and drilled holes like the 40 year old concrete was foam board. Just no comparison.

Comparing that to a hammer drill is like comparing a sling shot to a howitzer.

 

[mepstein]

Comparing that to a hammer drill is like comparing a sling shot to a howitzer.

Yes. My point is you have to use the right tool for the job. The little drills aren’t concrete and stone drills, even though their advertising makes it appear they are.

 

[sparky 1971]

Yes. My point is you have to use the right tool for the job. The little drills aren’t concrete and stone drills, even though their advertising makes it appear they are.

True, but SDS Max isn't necessary for 3/16 holes. I doubt a bit that small is even available for Max. I have a spline drive, but wouldn't even consider it for anything smaller than 3/4.

 

[dnschmidt]

Dnschmidt, I saw ASTRO tools are on Amazon and looks like other places.

Could you tell us what being a distributor means? What do you do exactly and how do you get into something like that?

I remember reading about your bad experience with that other company, can't remember the name and don't want to get it wrong.

In my case it was pretty simple. I am friends with Steve Fisher who owns the company and I asked him to make me a distributor. Few others have that inside track. The relationship between ASTRO and myself was built up over many years. I was sort of the "official" spray gun tester for ASTRO and whenever they were considering introducing new spray guns they would send them to me for my evaluation as I'm pretty much an expert on spray guns. I'd give them my feedback and they, at times, would adjust accordingly. You just don't call them up and ask to become a distributor if that's what you're asking unless your name is Summit Racing or Amazon.

 

[kngelv]

I guess I was just venting because these are not really usable as hammer drills even though they are marketed as such. I bought the Bosch SDS Plus back when my ex had a house with 70 year old poured walls. My 18V and 20V DeWalt struggled as did my 28V Milwaukee. Her newer house has 60 year old block walls. To answer some questions. Yes I had the Milwaukee Gen 4 on the hammer setting. The literature with the anchors said to use the drill bit in a hammer drill. I'm sure old block is a lot more solid than the modern stuff but still..... I do have a 3/16 bit for the Bosch. If the only thing they do well is brand new block then they are sort of pointless for my needs and I will be returning it. On a side note I picked up the Milwaukee Packout portable vacuum and used it on this job sucking up concrete dust. It was serviceable but the similar sized Hilti I have at work is much better so it's on its way back too.

James

 

[pbon]

I tried a m18 hammer drill and a Dewalt. Neither did much. Got a Bosch and drilled holes like the 40 year old concrete was foam board. Just no comparison.

The Milwaukee hammer drill cannot be fairly compared to the heavier duty bosch in the picture in your post. Milwaukee makes heavier duty D handle drills also.

 

[engineer2]

Earlier this year I used my 18V Makita XPH07 drill in hammer mode for a half a dozen 3/4" x 5" deep holes. I drilled through my 30year old concrete foundation like nothing. Took maybe 30 seconds per hole. Make sure the drill bit is sharp.

 

[GrantCee]

Earlier this year I used my 18V Makita XPH07 drill in hammer mode for a half a dozen 3/4" x 5" deep holes. I drilled through my 30year old concrete foundation like nothing. Took maybe 30 seconds per hole. Make sure the drill bit is sharp.

Same experience here. A couple of years ago I had to put about a dozen 1/2"x6" Tapcon bolts into a concrete slab that was poured in the 1970s. I actually went out and bought the XPH07 just to do that job, because the low-end "kit" hammer-drill I had wouldn't cut it. The XPH07 went through the slab easily.

If the drill is sharp, and you're applying enough down pressure so the hammer engages properly, it's a quick job — but will always pale in comparison to any SDS.

 

[engineer2]

Yes, SDS if you are doing a day's worth of holes or > 1" diameter holes.
Hammer drills are fine for DIY use, but try to buy the high-end version, not the homeowner version.
Every tool company makes good-better-best.

 

[redm18]

I have used both Milwaukee and Dewalt regular come with a kit hammer drills to drill in for tapcons pretty successfully in the past. Do they go it like butter no but they certainly get the job done. Are you sure to go for a little bit then blow out the swarf and then drill again and go like that? It helps quite a bit.

 

[CJM8515]

sure it was the right bit and said to use in hammer mode? also how large a battery, the bigger the battery the better sustained power Ive found.

I will say a cordless drill isnt really meant to bore into concrete even if its a hammer drill. i drilled 30+ holes into my parents block foundation for the bolts to hold the deck on the house. we tried the old black and metal craftsman my grandfather had and it wasnt up to snuff. sds made quick work of it.

 

[M635_Guy]

sure it was the right bit and said to use in hammer mode? also how large a battery, the bigger the battery the better sustained power I've found.

Would like to hear the answers to these too.

I always want to know a bit more detail on the other factors and whether the guy has RTFM. (not intended as a swipe at the OP)

 

[kngelv]

I already answered these questions. It was in hammer mode. It was a tapcon bit that came with the anchors and the package said to use it in a hammer drill. The bit was 3/16. It was a fully charged 5.0 Ah battery. It was a block wall that was about 60 years old. It worked but it was slow and you had to give it too much of a push in my opinion. My whole point was that these are marketed in a way that makes people assume these are far more capable than they are. I’m not some first timer here. I drill into concrete frequently at work. I’ve drilled into concrete grades anywhere from M10 to M80. I work at a place that has concrete poured from the 1920’s all the way to yesterday. It is a continually evolving complex with some of the hardest concrete you’ll ever see. I wanted to upgrade my home stuff from brushed to brushless and have generally been happy with any of the big three. Chose the new Milwaukee Gen 4 and feel like it’s a joke of a hammer drill. That is all.

James

 

[CJM8515]

5.0 battery...

well thats part of the issue. need at least 8 or 12ah battery for that sustained sorta drilling.

 

[kngelv]

5.0 battery...

well thats part of the issue. need at least 8 or 12ah battery for that sustained sorta drilling.

Dude you don't know what you are talking about. Sustained drilling? It was six 3/16" holes in a block wall. It was the exact same on all three holes I drilled with it. Plus if that was true - which it's not - then they need to include a larger battery with the kit. Stop being an apologist for Milwaukee. Do you even understand how the battery works. Amp hour is how many sustained amps it can give in specific time period. If Milwaukee has a decent battery management system then there should be little difference except run time and slightly lower resistance. The benefit for larger batteries is the amount of cells which will help if you are doing a lot of holes. It was THREE holes.

James

 

[ArcReactorKC]

I don't see any call for an 8ah battery for some tapcons. My old as dirt non-fuel M18 will drill a bunch of 3/16" holes in concrete on a small 2ah battery. The idea that you need one of the big monsters is ridiculous.

 

[M635_Guy]

I'd guess you got a bad copy then. Three holes shouldn't be that big a deal if everything else is proper.

 

[Dznutz]

I've used a gen 2 Milwaukee hammer drill to do 24- 3/8" anchors, 4" deep in slab concrete. You clearly were doing something wrong, imo.. dull bit, inexperienced operator or combination.

 

[CJM8515]

Dude you don't know what you are talking about. Sustained drilling? It was six 3/16" holes in a block wall. It was the exact same on all three holes I drilled with it. Plus if that was true - which it's not - then they need to include a larger battery with the kit. Stop being an apologist for Milwaukee. Do you even understand how the battery works. Amp hour is how many sustained amps it can give in specific time period. If Milwaukee has a decent battery management system then there should be little difference except run time and slightly lower resistance. The benefit for larger batteries is the amount of cells which will help if you are doing a lot of holes. It was THREE holes.

James

sounds like operator error or a dull drill bit then.

 

[tarbellb]

So nobody was able to drill holes like this before the 8ah battery was introduced, gtfo here

 

[sparky 1971]

5.0 battery...

well thats part of the issue. need at least 8 or 12ah battery for that sustained sorta drilling.

No. I use 5.0 batteries exclusively except for my Hole Hawg, Super Hawg, bandsaw, and vacuum. Those get 8.0 or 9.0 just for the extended run time. There is no noticeable power difference between 5.0, 6.0, 8.0, or 9.0. I've never used a 12.0, but am willing to bet it's the same. I even use 5.0 in the 1-1/8 SDS drill with a 2-1/2" core bit.

There are a few things here that could have caused the issue, bad drill, bad bit, concrete too hard. Too small of a battery is not the problem.

 

[CJM8515]

No. I use 5.0 batteries exclusively except for my Hole Hawg, Super Hawg, bandsaw, and vacuum. Those get 8.0 or 9.0 just for the extended run time. There is no noticeable power difference between 5.0, 6.0, 8.0, or 9.0. I've never used a 12.0, but am willing to bet it's the same. I even use 5.0 in the 1-1/8 SDS drill with a 2-1/2" core bit.

There are a few things here that could have caused the issue, bad drill, bad bit, concrete too hard. Too small of a battery is not the problem.

ive found the larger battery gives it a bit more umph overall-but better sustained power. specially in the power hungry yard tools. but maybe im just crazy lol

 

[sparky 1971]

ive found the larger battery gives it a bit more umph overall-but better sustained power. specially in the power hungry yard tools. but maybe im just crazy lol

I have a $h!t ton of Milwaukee tools, both M12 and M18 to the point that I'm not even interested in looking at what they have to offer. The only time I have ever noticed a power difference by changing batteries was the M12 Hackzall. Going from the compact battery to an XC, which I think at the time the only available XC was a 3.0, made a world of a difference. In this case, the 5.0 battery should be more than enough to drill a 3/16 hole in concrete block. I do use 6.0 M12's in my SDS drill. Again, no power difference, but significant run time advantage vs. the 4.0.

I will admit to not having any cordless yard tools, so maybe you're on to something there. I like two stroke gas.

 

[CJM8515]

^ yea it was a vast difference in power and sustained overall run time from a 4/5ah to 8ah i have only one of (came with the yard tools). the smaller batteries were fully charged and seemed to not give the tool the same power it had vs the 8ah. in my case were talking about an m18 blower.

i still say its likely the bit was no good or something done wrong on the user end. ive drilled holes in solid poured concrete with a masonry bit and an old bakelite black plastic craftsman drill. like 100 holes..course the drill quit but it did it rather decently. but it was corded.

 

[kngelv]

Here is a link where a guy does an in depth test of a typical hammer drill and compares it to a rotary hammer. His time roughly jibes with mine. 30 seconds for a two inch deep 3/16” hole. Which I think is pretty bad. My whole point is that these are kind of a joke as a hammer drill and are only for very light use. As to the guys questioning the operator I’ve probably drilled somewhere between ten and twenty thousand holes in concrete during my current career.

James

Hammer Drill vs. Rotary Hammer – The Real Difference – workshoppist.com

 

[kngelv]

I've used a gen 2 Milwaukee hammer drill to do 24- 3/8" anchors, 4" deep in slab concrete. You clearly were doing something wrong, imo.. dull bit, inexperienced operator or combination.

Calling BS on this. Based on the link below it would take you eight minutes a 3/8” hole with a typical hammer drill. So you spent over three hours drilling holes. Unlikely.

James

Hammer Drill vs. Rotary Hammer – The Real Difference – workshoppist.com

 

[sparky 1971]

Here is a link where a guy does an in depth test of a typical hammer drill and compares it to a rotary hammer. His time roughly jibes with mine. 30 seconds for a two inch deep 3/16” hole. Which I think is pretty bad. My whole point is that these are kind of a joke as a hammer drill and are only for very light use. As to the guys questioning the operator I’ve probably drilled somewhere between ten and twenty thousand holes in concrete during my current career.

James

Hammer Drill vs. Rotary Hammer – The Real Difference – workshoppist.com

In the first post, you make it seem like the drill wouldn't do it at all. 30 seconds to 2" deep is probably about what mine would be and probably not much slower than the 1/2" corded Milwaukee I was issued 25 years ago. If they made a hammer drill that worked anywhere near as well as a SDS, sales would go down on rotary hammers.

 

[engineer2]

Here is a link where a guy does an in depth test of a typical hammer drill and compares it to a rotary hammer.

He is using a 2" diameter bit! Not the right tool for that size hole!
An XPH07 (or similar competitor's drills) is fine for anything 1" or less, which is likely 99% of the market.