Unique Garage Problem - Ideas Wanted!

[cramar]

Here is my dilemma. I have a double- car garage with a single 9' door so I can only get one car in it! Before I start on garage improvements next Spring, I wanted to explore an idea. My garage is 24' deep and 21' 3" wide, so it will fit two cars. (The garage interior goes to the house wall on the left.)



I've explored the possibility of putting a double door on, but that would involve extensive renovations to the front including building permits, involving an engineer, an addition of steel I-beam for structural support, and more. Plus the cost of a new door, track, motor, etc. The cost would be considerable. In addition I would lose the entry door (and window). The 2nd entrance to the house is through the garage, so we always use this garage entry door. Entering by opening and closing the garage door is not acceptable. So… I thought of an alternative, and maybe much cheaper!

Since there is space for two cars, what if I had a horizontal track system where I could drive one car in, it would move horizontally to the left to make room for the second car. Then I would just drive in the 2nd vehicle. Surely I thought there must be someone somewhere making such a system. The closest I could find was this European system:

http://www.parkandslide.eu/index.html

It is the right idea, but the vehicle only moves sideways a few feet. I need it to move over a whole parking spot.

Does anyone know of such a system (for residential use)? The alternative is to design my own, but so far I've having trouble with some form of rollers. I've thought of steel casters, but to hold the weight they have to be larger and of course this raises the height. I need something that is only a couple of inches high for obvious reasons.

Any ideas?

 

[hard12catch33]

Just an idea....

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VNFYXO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[gungatim]

go to HF and get 4 of those cheap vehicle dolly casters you drive on and then push the car over. make sure you leave first in the morning so your wife has to be the one pushing her car out : ) They sell better ones that you slide under and hydraulically jack up the car too if you are serious.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001W1UFV0/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[JMURiz]

You wont need an I beam, just an LVL header is all that's needed for a garage door header.

It looks like it was made to have two doors, but was later changed to have a single, hard to tell from only an outside photo.

 

[zTimbo]

Here is my dilemma. I have a double- car garage with a single 9' door so I can only get one car in it! Before I start on garage improvements next Spring, I wanted to explore an idea. My garage is 24' deep and 21' 3" wide, so it will fit two cars. (The garage interior goes to the house wall on the left.)



I've explored the possibility of putting a double door on, but that would involve extensive renovations to the front including building permits, involving an engineer, an addition of steel I-beam for structural support, and more. Plus the cost of a new door, track, motor, etc. The cost would be considerable. In addition I would lose the entry door (and window). The 2nd entrance to the house is through the garage, so we always use this garage entry door. Entering by opening and closing the garage door is not acceptable. So… I thought of an alternative, and maybe much cheaper!

Since there is space for two cars, what if I had a horizontal track system where I could drive one car in, it would move horizontally to the left to make room for the second car. Then I would just drive in the 2nd vehicle. Surely I thought there must be someone somewhere making such a system. The closest I could find was this European system:

http://www.parkandslide.eu/index.html

It is the right idea, but the vehicle only moves sideways a few feet. I need it to move over a whole parking spot.

Does anyone know of such a system (for residential use)? The alternative is to design my own, but so far I've having trouble with some form of rollers. I've thought of steel casters, but to hold the weight they have to be larger and of course this raises the height. I need something that is only a couple of inches high for obvious reasons.

Any ideas?

Looks like it could be modified to slide further, or maybe contact them to see if they could custom build something for your specific needs.

 

[Gary S]

If you are just storing one car, then it would work to move it sideways. If you plan to use both cars regularly, the only solution is to put in a double door, or another single one if the existing one is positioned to allow that.

We pulled a 9' single door out of my Son's shop and replaced it with a 16' double door. It took me and my two Sons a day to remove the old door, move eledtrical wiring that was in the way, pull out the single wide header, install a new wider header, reframe for the larger door, and install the new door. We also had to remove two windows to make room for the door, and redo the framing and siding where the door and window changes were done. None of us had ever done this before, but it just takes common sense and hard work.
He didn't need a permit or engineer, so one day's work, a new door, and some additional lumber fixed his situation.

 

[woodrail]

Sure the heck looks like that was built for a double door. I'm betting with the height available, you could easily frame in an LVL and put in a new door.

I bet this is the best long term solution both for you and for resale.

 

[AndyL]

As above - Your house appears to have originally had a double door. Likely its framed for that - just a matter of knocking out that filler panel (and with brick, that'll be some fun - but save the brick; looks like an awesome source for matching if you ever need brick repairs in the future).

Its not uncommon for a single to be removed to allow for a single parking spot & garage space.

 

[Kevro]

Have you considered moving the car up instead of sideways, i.e., a four-post lift?

 

[bravvo]

My guess is any solution you come up with will cost you more money and frustration in the long run. Even if you need permits and an engineer it will be a one time cost. Any slide system you do find will be expensive and still will make you remove both cars if you need to pull out the one away from the door. The simplest solution is usually the best. Put in a double door. Just my opinion.

FYI - I have similar setup with the front door and entry from the garage to the house being the only options. My lifestyle means if I am coming home I am in my car which I park in the garage. Opening the big garage door to get into the house isnt a big deal for me since I will be doing it anyway.

 

[-Brent-]

Can you take an inside pic of the header above the door when the door is closed?

 

[Fizbin]

Entering by opening and closing the garage door is not acceptable.

The above sentence says it all... good luck with that.

 

[Jack Olsen]

I don't mean to be flip, but turn a negative into a positive. Four-post lift on the accessible side, if it's important to park two cars. Nice workshop area on the other side.

One of my best-ever decisions was to put only one car into a two-car garage.

(My apologies to everyone who's seen the picture 10,000 times.)

Now, if you DO decide that it's most important to come up with a sliding system, I would think in terms of multiple inexpensive casters -- even something like skateboard/rollerblade wheels would do the job pretty easily. A 4,000-lb car is only 100 pounds per wheel if you've got 40 wheels down there. And people easily move cars around on 4-caster wheel dollies.

 

[Perrorojo]

I'm betting the garage was framed for a two car door and the PO framed it in. Post some pics of the inside. Like others have said, it may be as simple as knocking out the small wall and window and buying/installing a larger door.

 

[kazlx]

If you plan on using both cars regularly, any sort of park and move situation is going to get old really fast. I agree with those saying knock it out and put in a full double door. It looks like it's already framed for that. The setup you have now is not very common at all. It would definitely help your home value and re-sale to have a double garage door.

 

[cramar]

Thanks everyone for the valuable ideas. They are much appreciated. I need to address several issues that have come up. We have three vehicles, and the two that would be garaged are not used very often.

hard12catch33:
Thanks for the idea. Didn't know these existed. It's a $1,000 solution that could work, even though some reviews say that these units are hard to jack and move the car unless you over 200 lbs. and strong.

All:
To those who have suggested that it looks like the garage was converted from a double to single door, I can assure you that it was not! It is possible the original house plans called for a double and the original owner wanted an entrance door and window, so it was built as a single. The part of the wall between the window and the garage door is load bearing. That is why there needs to be a beam (whether LVL or other), to support the roof.

To Kevro & Jack Olsen:
Yes, I thought of a lift before and rejected it because of cost. Now I'm reconsidering. The beauty is that I have the interior height. But it would involve a reno and a new door. I took a picture that shows the issues. It is exactly 10' to the centre beam (just visible in the the upper-left corner) & 10'-7" to the rest of the ceiling! There is a 3' dropped storage area above the door that supports the door track as seen in the picture. This would have to be removed for a lift and a new track, door, & hardware installed. Doable, but a $5k-$6k solution I figure (including lift). The whole garage, walls and ceiling, have been panelled with surplus fake wood paneling with no insulation, hiding the studs. Ugly mess! Planning to paint it white as the cheapest solution.



Jack Olsen:
Great garage, and great car! You're right—a double with single car and workshop is nice. Ironically, the day of your post I was reading a garage book and a large multi-car garage had a 1972 converted RSR also. Must have been a good vintage year.

 

[the gypsy]

Why don't you install the second garage door but put a regular door in the garage door. This way if you need to walk in you don't have to open the whole garage door.

 

[AffableCurmudgeon]

I thought of a lift before and rejected it because of cost. Now I'm reconsidering. The beauty is that I have the interior height. But it would involve a reno and a new door. I took a picture that shows the issues. It is exactly 10' to the centre beam (just visible in the the upper-left corner) & 10'-7" to the rest of the ceiling! There is a 3' dropped storage area above the door that supports the door track as seen in the picture. This would have to be removed for a lift and a new track, door, & hardware installed. Doable, but a $5k-$6k solution I figure (including lift).

Instead of spending $6,000 on this, if this was me I would install a second garage door. To each their own.

 

[ez-duzit]

cramar--Forget the wild schemes and unnecessary drama every time you want to use the trapped car. You are making a huge project out of such a very simple modification for a wide garage door, an improvement that will actually add value to your house. Don't waste your money on some DIY user-unfriendly contraption.

Put the walk-through door anywhere else you'd like, if you insist on avoiding use of the front door.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

How much property do you own?

I'm thinkin...by the time you pull permits, and have to engineer/rework what you got...why not just add a 12' or whatever addition to the length of your garage...slap a new door in there...voila, 2 doors, some workshop space and your entry door. Cost wise wouldn't be that bad...not for what you get in return.

Of course, its a moot point if your neighbors property is 5' away...

 

[boatmark]

I don't mean to pile on, but I think yes you could absolutely building something, and no I don't think you should. Several things come to mind. . . .

The HF wheel dollie thing to me is a non-starter. Who wants to have to lift each individual wheel each time you want to prepare it to move or drive.

To make it useable I can see it done with of floor tracks like they use for movable items in factories. Looks like a flat plate with about a 1" high "teepee" in the center. Take a bunch of Grainger steel (or steel and rubber) wheels that can have a matching groove milled in them to follow the track. Then make up a steel four sided cradle with runners like a lift . . so you can open the door with the opener and drive straight on it, then hop out and start grunting and pushing. Once it is moved over the remaining car drives over the tracks in the remaining space.

But having detailed all that, it still seems like a monumental pain in the ****, and after the novelty wears off that car will probably just sit there because most times you can't be bothered to move it. (maybe that's just me) I know I once had a tandem parking space in a condo parking garage, and for the time I lived there I used my Corvette half as much. Unless I was going somewhere specific to the Vette, I was usually too lazy to move the truck, pull out the car, and put the truck back in . . . knowing I needed to reverse the process when I got home.

One other thing that hasn't been brought up - the OP is seemingly very attached to the walk in door. But with the car slid over there it seems to me that the car would block the door. Not so convenient any more.

Still think a bigger door, a lift, or a garage addition . . . in that order.

 

[6t7gto]

Relocate the man door to the side of the garage.

 

[anthony42hat]

How much property do you own?

I'm thinkin...by the time you pull permits, and have to engineer/rework what you got...why not just add a 12' or whatever addition to the length of your garage...slap a new door in there...voila, 2 doors, some workshop space and your entry door. Cost wise wouldn't be that bad...not for what you get in return.

Of course, its a moot point if your neighbors property is 5' away...

This^^^

 

[cramar]

Spudland_Dave:
Unfortunately, 5' is the case.

6t7gto:
A side door is an idea that I can throw into the mix, but probably not really practical.

Boatmark:
The car will not block the doors (front and rear). There is room, but will be a confined passage. A trade off I figure.

Everyone:
Again thanks for all the ideas. It seems the consensus is that I should modify and install a double door. I should have mentioned at the beginning that cost was a factor, and the Corvette is stored for winter. After buying this house 15 months ago and major renovating since then, I do not want to sink a lot more money into the garage. So the cheapest solution would take precedence. Unfortunately, that would have limited all the good ideas that have come forward.

If money was not an object, thanks to all the responses, I now know EXACTLY what I would do. I would NOT go the double door route. The most desirable for me would be to modify the garage to eliminate the storage above the door to gain the full height of the garage, install a new 9' insulated single door (mine is a 50-year original), and install a 4-post lift. That way I could store two cars, AND have a work area like Jack Olsen, plus keep my entrance door and window. I will consider this for a longer term plan. Compared to this, I lose too much floor space (and entrance door and window) with a true double door. Why not use the height I've got instead of a major conversion to double door?

I checked with the UK manufacturer of the Park & Slide and with extensions to move over one parking space plus shipping they want around $3,200 Cdn! Nuts!! I can buy a 4-post lift far cheaper!

For now, by far the perfect short-term solution for me are the GoJaks (or similar). GoJaks are the best quality, but are insanely expensive for the amount of steel and effort to make them. Canadian Tire here has hydraulic lifts (similar to Harbor Freight) that I'm hoping will go on sale in future. Meanwhile, I might just leave the garage as is and do a Jack Olsen workshop. I'll continue to plan.

 

[Cobra5150]

At least pull the paneling off and see what's up there. A little investigation can go a long way.

 

[K13]

You might try KMS Tools or Princess Auto. KMS is Canadian, have this style of dolly and have them on sale for $120.00 right now. I have a buddy that uses them under a '65 vette and has absolutely no problem pushing the car around by himself. He got them at one of these two places if I see him this weekend I will ask him where he got them. Not sure what shipping would ding you from KMS though as they are only out west.

 

[Kevin54]

cramar....if you are thinking about one of the systems to move a car sideways, you could more than likely save some money and just put a larger garage door in (16' wide)

Take the walk-in door out, move it to the side. Almost 99% of the time, people will either go to your front door on the house, or if it's relation and the weather is nice, they may walk in through the garage. When we are home and during decent weather, our garage door is always open.

If you have reservations about cost, the moveable track to move a car sideways will cost way more than revamping the front to accept a new wider door. First off, you would need some 2x4's to build a brace to support the rafters. Once you do that, rip out the complete front, put in an LVL header, and build the wall to each side of the opening. Your major cost is going to be a 16' wide door, which will be around $1500 installed, and much less if you install an UN-insulated door and do it yourself.

 

[tlmartin84]

I agree with everyone saying take a look under the paneling. It would surprise me if there is not a header already there and just framed up. My guess is someone changed there mind during building and a wall got thrown up.

I am an engineer, and I don't think you even need to get one involved in this. Framing a garage door opening under a load bearing exterior wall is common place. Most contractors can handle this on their own. Perhaps your local building official is requiring it? Even if you would hire an engineer for this I can't see it costing more than $200.00.

I also think I could design something pretty quick for you to slide a car sideways on. C channel on the floor, casters roll in it (reverse railroad track) and then a low platform to drive it up on. and roll it sideways.

LOL my dad used to work for a cemetery. When they had to slide caskets in and out of mausoleums they threw a handful of bb's on the floor slid the casket in and gave it a shove. DONE.

 

[ez-duzit]

...C channel on the floor...

...to trip on.

 

[welder4956]

Google "Hillman rollers". We use these to move heavy equipment into place during construction or retrofits. You should be able to have a ramp/platform fabricated with one set of rollers on each corner. You can use with a track or roll on concrete floor.

 

[Syntax_Error]

Put a post up to hold the roof. Demo the wall and single door save your siding on the outside and remove it to the corners and the corners as well. Get yourself some good straight 2x12's 16ft length and some shims, put the shims between the boards and screw them together and you will have a badass header for your door that will support you're roof. then use your left over materials to side up to your opening and then install your garage door.

 

[tlmartin84]

...to trip on.

If he wants something cheap, he has to make some sacrifices. How's the saying go.. Time, Cost, Quality, pick two?

Anything that moves horizontal is going to have to have some kind of a track system to keep it all lined up. Something on the floor or something like Reese Tubing that slides with the vehicle. I have a set of expensive dollys under my '56 and it is still a bear to roll around the garage. and get it where you want it. I can't imagine having to move it on a daily basis.

I think fixing the door is the best solution period.

 

[yhprum]

What others have said, I would some paneling down on the inside to see if there is a full span header to support a double door.

 

[Kevin54]

Spudland_Dave:
Unfortunately, 5' is the case.

6t7gto:
A side door is an idea that I can throw into the mix, but probably not really practical.

Boatmark:
The car will not block the doors (front and rear). There is room, but will be a confined passage. A trade off I figure.

Everyone:
Again thanks for all the ideas. It seems the consensus is that I should modify and install a double door. I should have mentioned at the beginning that cost was a factor, and the Corvette is stored for winter. After buying this house 15 months ago and major renovating since then, I do not want to sink a lot more money into the garage. So the cheapest solution would take precedence. Unfortunately, that would have limited all the good ideas that have come forward.

If money was not an object, thanks to all the responses, I now know EXACTLY what I would do. I would NOT go the double door route. The most desirable for me would be to modify the garage to eliminate the storage above the door to gain the full height of the garage, install a new 9' insulated single door (mine is a 50-year original), and install a 4-post lift. That way I could store two cars, AND have a work area like Jack Olsen, plus keep my entrance door and window. I will consider this for a longer term plan. Compared to this, I lose too much floor space (and entrance door and window) with a true double door. Why not use the height I've got instead of a major conversion to double door?

I checked with the UK manufacturer of the Park & Slide and with extensions to move over one parking space plus shipping they want around $3,200 Cdn! Nuts!! I can buy a 4-post lift far cheaper!

For now, by far the perfect short-term solution for me are the GoJaks (or similar). GoJaks are the best quality, but are insanely expensive for the amount of steel and effort to make them. Canadian Tire here has hydraulic lifts (similar to Harbor Freight) that I'm hoping will go on sale in future. Meanwhile, I might just leave the garage as is and do a Jack Olsen workshop. I'll continue to plan.

There are a few things to consider. No.1....you're storing a 'Vette, and No.2, money is an object and you want to get by with spending the least amount possible.

That is everyone's dilemma. **** in one hand and want in the other then see which fills up the quickest. No matter what, it is going to cost you some money to get to the point that you want to achieve. By far, the simplest solution is to install a 16' wide door and be done with it. Other than that, a set of dollies to put the car on and shove it over is the cheapest.

As one's have stated above, pull some paneling off and make sure that it isn't framed for a wider door. If it isn't, spend $50 or so on 2x4's and build you a support wall to support your rafters or trusses. Tear out the front of the garage, add in an LVL beam, and reframe for a 16' wide door. All in all, probably a good weekend project to get it weathered back in.

But with conveyors or whatever to slide the car over to the side, more money that reframing. You could go with a set of GOJACKS for around $500, but do you want to slide them up, lock them down, then move the car from side to side anytime you want to move the car, or instead, spend a couple of thousand, reframe, and pull the car out at any time you want?

 

[SUNBURNTsnype]

One idea to possibly do the slide over method on the cheap is to build a drive on platform similar to a drive on lift, but out of lumber like 2x8 and 2x10, and then have the dolly wheels attached to the bottom of the platform with the wheels rolling across the garage floor. this would eliminate having a track or wheels on the garage floor that you would be tripping over all the time. the caster wheels would have to be the non swivelling type, spaced evenly and with enough to distribute the weight across the platform. then, you could use a masonry bit to drill into the garage floor and bolt down some 4 x 4 or 6 x6 blocks to the ground that would be your "stoppers" which the whole platform would make contact with once you have pushed it over far enough, so it wouldnt keep sliding into the wall. you could put these stoppers on both sides of the garage so you dont haveto worry about trying to line up the platform with the garage door every time. You could even use the same drill/bolt into the floor method to install some long 4 x4 or 6 x 6 runners in front of and behind the platform that would keep the platform from creeping forward or backward each time it is slid side to side.

just thinking a platform with wheels on it might be cheaper snd easier than dollies on each wheel if you move the car back and forth in the garage with any regularity

 

[spooler41]

You could always go to plan "B", Just build a car port in front of the existing garage.
You will end up with at least two parking spaces outside of your garage, you can leave the existing garage wall,man door and garage door alone.

......................Jack

 

[justin1795]

put in two single doors

 

[atfulldraw]

I'd move.....

 

[Flivver250]

A slide sytem is throwing away good money. Try selling that to a future buyer. Bite the bullet and have an architech draft you some plans and price it out.

 

[gorilla]

If I wanted to slide a car sideways into storage I would build a simple platform out of c channel and square tubing to drive the car on. One side would have V wheels, the other flat wheels. The V wheels would run on a piece of angle welded V side up on a piece of flat bar anchored to the floor that would be the guide for the cart. The flat wheels would run on a piece of flat bar anchored to the floor. Stops would need to be affixed at both ends of travel. A couple of drop pins might be needed to keep the V wheels in place when loading the car onto the cart. This system assures that the car goes to the same spot every time and doesn't head for the low part of the floor. I've built devices like this to move things a lot heavier than a C-5 Corvette and they've work for a lot of years. Is this lipstick on a pig, ie overkill? Yes. Expensive <$2,00.00.