Unit heater install question

[mrramsey]

Looking to add heat in the garage. I am getting a couple of quotes to have it done. I was thinking of going DIY on it if the quotes come back too high. Installing the unit I am good with. Electrical... No problem. I don't like messing with gas.

How many have done this? Looking at a 30 - 45k BTU sealed combustion unit with a side wall vent.

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[boo coo tracks]

Propane or natural gas??
Tracks

 

[dave67fd]

I did the Install and electrical myself and even though I could have done the gas line no problem my town requires a licensed installer to do the gas. The homeowners can't even pull the permit. It is then inspected by the fire chief.
This way your covered insurance wise. Find out what your local codes require. In absence of them follow the manufactures recommendations for the install.

The FHA heaters (per NFPA) don't require a "dedicated" electrical circuit. Regardless it's a good idea if you have one available and they draw minimal current. Just don't use on a switched (i.e.lighting) circuit.

The heater want's to blow/heat towards the area that has the coldest air intake (i.e..overhead doors).

Make sure your heater isn't undersized or too oversized for the area your planning to heat.
If your garage is not currently insulated or properly done so, spend the money on insulating it first as the heater will be nearly useless and run constantly.
I put a burner shut-off switch at the unit (for servicing) and one at lower level for emergency shut-off.
Installing a ceiling fan of some sorts helps distribute the heat and gets it off the ceiling.

 

[mrramsey]

Propane or natural gas??
Tracks

Natural gas.

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[mrramsey]

The only problem with the install is the location. It would have to go I the corner by the overhead door. I have a side entry garage and the only two exterior walls are the side and the front of the house.

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[JCByrd24]

I did my propane modine. Pretty easy. I'd never done gas before but it was pretty straight forward and a buddy of mine works for a distributor and is a former tech so had the equipment for doing the final hookup on gas and signed off on the install for me. I'd bet if you do most of the install you can get the gas guys to come out and do the pressure check of the gas line and save some money. Mounting the thing and doing the vent was a much bigger pain than the gas and electrical.

 

[csp]

Have installed lots of them. How does that help you?

 

[James-W]

The gas company ran my gas line from the street to the garage. They dug the trench and installed the piping and the meter. I had run a dedicated electrical circuit to the place where I wanted the Hot Dawg heater to go and it was inspected when the wiring inspector came by to do his thing and sign off on the work. I had the HVAC people install the heater and run the gas line from the meter to the heater. While I am pretty sure I could have done the gas line myself, as well as installed the heater, the city doesn't allow that. Well, the city would allow me to install the heater, but not connect the gas. They want a licensed person to do that. So I figured I would just let the HVAC people where I bought the heater from do it and then I know it is done right and I will have no problems from the city inspector. Everything passed inspection without a problem and since the job was done everything has worked perfectly.

 

[mrramsey]

Thanks for the insights guys. I got a quote from my local HVAC contractor. The guy must think that this require Einstein to do it.

Don't get me wrong, I am all about a fair wage and profit. This is about as simple of an install as it gets. There is a 1/2" gas line 5' inside of the house that is currently capped. It just needs to turn 90 degrees to go to the garage the up 10' to the ceiling. Electrical is there already. He quoted me an enerco HS25ng radiant heater. Just requires a cheesy fresh air vent with no ducting as far as I can tell. Yes this is the unit that sells online for $250-300.

He would do it for $2175.00. Are you kidding me. I have been in the trades all of my life as well as being an estimator. This is what I call a "your job is too small for me to mess with" quote.

The way I see it it is 15' of gas pipe, the heater, labor and a permit.
$300 for the unit, I'll be generous and say $125 for pipe and gas click, 6 hours for labor say $600 mark it up 25% call it $1300.

It got worse with the Reznor UDAS-30 init. Again you can find it online for $800. His quote $3870.00..

I will be calling the county tomorrow to get the permit requirements to self perform.

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[ky-mike]

I agree that it is difficult to find someone to do a relatively small job at a reasonable price. One plumber that I contacted (HVAC guys won't or can't run gas line) wanted about $750 to run gas piping from the stub-out just outside of my detached garage through the wall and up 12' to where I will hang my unit heater. Still looking for an independent plumber to run the gas for me.

 

[wes73]

I hung My Hot Dawg and ran the electric myself. I hired out the propane connection. He ran a total of 20' of black pipe from the 100 gal tank out side. Through the outside wall, up into the attic and then a drop at the heater. This was a separate combustion unit, so an exhaust and fresh air were needed total run for these is 12 ft each. Again up into the ceiling and across the attic and out the side wall. I had already had the concentric piece, but all other was supplied (black pipe and all venting) One guy that has his own business, 7 hours install. $775.00.

 

[mrramsey]

I contacted the county this morning. I can indeed self perform all electrical, HVAC, and plumbing myself with a signed and notarized affidavit stating that I am the home owner. Obviously all of the code compliance and inspections still apply. Realistically I will still probably hire a plumber to run the gas line but the rest I am more than capable of doing.

It will cost me around $150 for the electrical and mechanical permits.

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[smalltown]

Sounds like what I did with my gas (propane ) install.
I hung it from the ceiling, ran the electrical (like Dave67fd installed a emergency shut off on the rear of the heater, and a second by my entrance door)

Had the my local oil/propane dealer come out and pipe in the gas using black iron piping.

My install is on here somewhere.

 

[mrramsey]

Sounds like what I did with my gas (propane ) install.
I hung it from the ceiling, ran the electrical (like Dave67fd installed a emergency shut off on the rear of the heater, and a second by my entrance door)

Had the my local oil/propane dealer come out and pipe in the gas using black iron piping.

My install is on here somewhere.

Nice install. How do you like that sterling unit?

 

[mrramsey]

Got another quote today to have a Modine HD45 installed. Closer but still on the high side in my opinion at $2674

If I price that out to do it my self here is what I get:

HD45 online $615 shipped
Gas piping $60
Venting $150
Electrical $50
Permit $65

Estimated total cost - $890

That leaves $1784. Lets say you have a jorneyman and a helper for 6 hours of install time. Cost for those two will be around $70 per hour, so $420

That leaves $1364 and I am certain they are paying less for the unit than I can get it for but hey there will be a little overhead involved. I feel that the $1300 that is left is a bit extreme for a profit. It was even worse with the first guy.

 

[rlitman]

$60 might be what it costs the plumber for the gas piping, if they get their parts wholesale and cut and thread their own iron pipe. If you're buying threaded pieces, I'd expect the gas pipe portion to start at twice that cost and go up from there for longer runs.
You're also forgetting that the plumber will need to bring in an electrician (probably with a helper) for that part. Two trades, and two permits.

Still, that quote seems to leave a lot of meat on the bone.

 

[mrramsey]

Heh that was with me promisingly the electric. This guy at least added a line for the gas piping at $125 which is reasonable. But yeah a lot of meat left for sure.


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[ky-mike]

I would guess $70 per hour each for 6 hours each, but that still leaves about $900 of pure profit.

 

[smalltown]

Nice install. How do you like that sterling unit?

I like it very much. It's my first garage heater so I don't have anything to personally compare it with.

 

[mrramsey]

Ok so just a brief update on this. I confirmed with the HVAC contractor that the unit he quoted was the HDS45 and not the HD45. So that $2674 number is a little easier to swallow. That being said I'll pay just for the convenience of not having to mess with it or worry about screwing something up.

 

[D45]

$2674 to install or $2674 for the heater and install?

Either which way, that's insane

 

[mrramsey]

$2674 to install or $2674 for the heater and install?

Either which way, that's insane

No, Insane was the $3850 the first guy wanted for a 30k Reznor. The price is turnkey.

I have one more fella coming out this week. I am ok with the $2600 I think it would be better at $2200-$2300.

I am more than capable of doing it but I'd rather use my expertise doing what I do best and not messing around with the heater install. I'd have to get the permits and have the inspection which are time and a hassle on my part. By the time I do the extra running around to get the 2 items that were forgotten or some issue with the heater arises just makes less worth my time.

If they were all coming in at 3800 that would be a different story all together.

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