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Unpermitted work - it was there when i bought the place.

bobg03

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I feel sorry for you guys that live in places where this over reach occupies your thoughts and has you living in a state of almost paranoia.
I agree, over reach ***** but no concrete rules are even worse...

I have seen cars that were not roadworthy parked in Ct, Mass and RI on a regular basis usually with a Maine Plate..lol

When I was younger I looked at some Motorcycles that were built over the winter in a Maine home, nope no thanx I'd never be able to register it...I'd be scared now to ever buy a house there.
 
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p00p

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WRT homeowning & related permits; creating regs to a point is usually fine, but creating a bunch of red tape, vague/hard to understand language in those regs is the problem I often see.
 

JunkBonds

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WRT homeowning & related permits; creating regs to a point is usually fine, but creating a bunch of red tape, vague/hard to understand language in those regs is the problem I often see.
Bingo!

The problem is the bureaucrats going Putin. I have seen it almost every time I pull a permit. Stupid for stupids sake.
 

jack stand

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I agree, over reach ***** but no concrete rules are even worse...

I have seen cars that were not roadworthy parked in Ct, Mass and RI on a regular basis usually with a Maine Plate..lol

When I was younger I looked at some Motorcycles that were built over the winter in a Maine home, nope no thanx I'd never be able to register it...I'd be scared now to ever buy a house there.
The plan is working! 😆
 

CJM8515

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just wanted to touch base on this. my parents sold their home of 20 years 2 years ago now. not sure if it was a realtor or a potential buyer, but someone called the town and either reported possible unpermitted work or wanted to ask about if the work was permitted for the basement. one day building inspector shows up and asks to inspect and boom hes looking over an unpermitted finished basement and telling my dad he has to fix a few things. thankfully they didnt have to tear it all down, ive seen a few times where they find out and its game over.
 

PCustoms

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I agree, over reach ***** but no concrete rules are even worse...

I have seen cars that were not roadworthy parked in Ct, Mass and RI on a regular basis usually with a Maine Plate..lol

When I was younger I looked at some Motorcycles that were built over the winter in a Maine home, nope no thanx I'd never be able to register it...I'd be scared now to ever buy a house there.
That's fine, we probably don't want you here anyway.

No clue what you are referring to with cars and motorcycle that aren't roadworthy. Maine has annual inspections and clear guidelines.
 

Wiz02

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Southeastern PA
While I am generally in favor of construction codes, what do you guys think of this silliness?

I bought my home that has an attached 2 car garage, because the property was well suited to add a detached garage.

Years passed and I now had the money to build the detached garage. I stop into the township to ask about permits and plans. The woman in the code compliance department tells me, the township doesn't allow detached garages if you have an attached garage. When I asked her to show me the pertinent regulation, she gets all huffy and calls for reinforcements. The head of the code department swagger out of his office, pulls out the township regulations and points to a sentence that used the word "an" when referring to garage construction. Using "an" he said, is singular and so that means if you have an attached garage you could not add a detached garage.

I smiled, asked for a copy of the regulation, said thank you very much and planned on getting a lawyer as that inference was ridiculous IMHO. Luckily for me, an election got rid of the old township guard, and while I probably shouldn't say which party won, let's just say that the township's demographics have changed.

The new homeowner friendly administration had absolutely no problem with the plans that I drew up, and were friendly, helpful and easy to work with, once I assured them that I wasn't building an auto repair shop on a dead end street.
 

Dig Doug

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What’s wrong with that! Think of the nice sunset views….

LoL

That guy should be locked up !
I hope that got caught on a home inspection and didn’t get sold like that! That is a huge accident just waiting for an insurance claim.




Some places are less on top of things than others. This was a active house listing in Pittsburgh from a flipper. Inside was just as bad. It just gets worse as you look.
2612A43A-F675-44A0-81B9-2956988D4819.jpeg3487CF8C-FCD7-4590-8007-E64A7C608725.jpeg70423D6D-6AB1-4D99-ABAC-9E71259304B0.jpegB3BFCF24-D5C9-4538-9400-B8650453C7BA.jpeg


Rittman brings up a good point, the inspector only sees inside the house (or around the house depending) if they are asked to inspect. You can violate every code imaginable inside and no one will know.
 

Dig Doug

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a lot of times you can change the wording or name it something else like - Work out room and once passed you use it how you want!

glad that worked out for you! That old Building dept rule was stupid crazy!



While I am generally in favor of construction codes, what do you guys think of this silliness?

I bought my home that has an attached 2 car garage, because the property was well suited to add a detached garage.

Years passed and I now had the money to build the detached garage. I stop into the township to ask about permits and plans. The woman in the code compliance department tells me, the township doesn't allow detached garages if you have an attached garage. When I asked her to show me the pertinent regulation, she gets all huffy and calls for reinforcements. The head of the code department swagger out of his office, pulls out the township regulations and points to a sentence that used the word "an" when referring to garage construction. Using "an" he said, is singular and so that means if you have an attached garage you could not add a detached garage.

I smiled, asked for a copy of the regulation, said thank you very much and planned on getting a lawyer as that inference was ridiculous IMHO. Luckily for me, an election got rid of the old township guard, and while I probably shouldn't say which party won, let's just say that the township's demographics have changed.

The new homeowner friendly administration had absolutely no problem with the plans that I drew up, and were friendly, helpful and easy to work with, once I assured them that I wasn't building an auto repair shop on a dead end street.
 

Dig Doug

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Boy, would ya look at the workmanship on that gem.
If the goof had spent just 5minutes at the "How to build a deck" book at Home Depot, and used any sense at all...........

This is why inspections have to exist.
Yes what a waste of time and materials!
 

Dig Doug

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You can insist on anything you want. I know getting our (large) municipal government to do that won't happen around here. And your lawyer will argue it is not worth paying him his $400 an hour to try to get it.
Another way around that would be to get all the permits pulled for a property, typically that would include sign offs.
 

Wiz02

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a lot of times you can change the wording or name it something else like - Work out room and once passed you use it how you want!

glad that worked out for you! That old Building dept rule was stupid crazy!
It sure was, I was very glad that I could spend the money on the garage instead of a lawyer, although anyone with a pulse could have beaten that silliness about an "indefinite article" - dictionary definition of the word "an". At least if we were arguing about intended usage that would have made sense, this was just somebody with an out of date agenda that thankfully got the boot.
 

Jsf721

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Since I don’t have code knowledge or even knowledge to know if my contractor did his build, load calculations or plumbing or electrical correctly. Therefore, I hire a reputable contractor and get permits pulled. That ensures there is a person (inspector) lookig out for me so things are done correctly and safely (I hope)
 
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Hobby_Man22

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Thats what i did. Didnt have money for the GC to do anything but the structure. Building and electrical are 2 different authorities here.
Well the permit is only good for so long. You'll just have to pay for it again if the work doesn't start within a certain time
 

acer66

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Well the permit is only good for so long. You'll just have to pay for it again if the work doesn't start within a certain time
Around here that is a year, for the last one I just called in for inspection on the last day before the permit would expire knowing it would fail just to keep the permit alive.

I apologized to the inspector but fortunately he was very understanding of my situation.
 

Garcky

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See it however you want, but any kind of restrictions to what I do on my property short of something that will likely cause me to damage my neighbors property is none of the local governments business. They are just like HR and job safety people, a bunch of people overpaid and desperate to justify there existence and exercise the tiny bit of power they feel like they have.
Well some people feel the way you do. In some places, that might work with the local building authorities. In others, though, that won't fly at all. Often, it comes back to bite you when you go to sell the property.
 
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Hobby_Man22

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I get a kick out of guys like the one you quoted, "my property, I'll do what I want to"

What happens when I do what I want to on my property and his family member is injured or killed because my half *** electrical work?

I don't think he means do dangerous work. Lots of places say you're only basically only allowed to sit inside your house and watch TV and twittle your thumbs, but keep that volume down!
 
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Hobby_Man22

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"You can violate every code imaginable inside and no one will know."

In NYC unless you have evidence of someone in danger within a home you need a search warrant to enter....unless your a building inspector working for the dept of buildings.
You have to read between the lines I guess.
Well some people feel the way you do. In some places, that might work with the local building authorities. In others, though, that won't fly at all. Often, it comes back to bite you when you go to sell the property.

I've always wondered about this when it came to electrical work where the permit is still open or never pulled. If it was done correctly who cares?
 
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Hobby_Man22

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The permitting and such can be a real pain and some of the inspectors should be fired. I can give numerous examples. Until you live in an area where no permitting is required and your nice meticulously maintained castle ends up with a carboard and cow dung stuffed used tires structure next to it. I can't believe what people try to get away with in FL.
I have a friend that did that. Went to go visit him one day after not being at his house for like a year. Drove by 3 times and realized it was the place that looked like a junk yard and it's right across from a 800k house. Pros and cons to living in the county
 

Garcky

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You have to read between the lines I guess.

I've always wondered about this when it came to electrical work where the permit is still open or never pulled. If it was done correctly who cares?
Well, before we sold our previous house in 2021, I had a new roof installed. Just before the new owner closed on it, I was informed that the permit for that roofing job hand never been closed, despite the job being completed almost 60 days before that. The sale couldn't close until the permit was closed. I made a call to the building authority in that town, since I had already moved. They had no record of the sign-off on the permit. I checked my phone, though, and found the call from the inspector, who had called me after doing the inspection. I called him and explained that the permit was still open. So, he checked. Someone had typed in the wrong address at the building authority office, so the permit was never closed.

It matters. You have to stay on top of that stuff, and various inspections that happen around a sale can turn up things that were done improperly or without a permit, and the title search shows any open permits. Everything seems to happen just before the closing date, too, so it's often a scramble to get things wrapped up.

Yes, you can do a lot of things without a permit, but if you don't do them correctly, it's likely to be discovered during a property inspection and bollix up the whole deal. If it was done correctly, odds are it won't get discovered, but a major project that should have had a permit isn't going to squeak through. It might, but it might also kill the sale, in the end.
 

u2slow

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Well the permit is only good for so long. You'll just have to pay for it again if the work doesn't start within a certain time
That would be might pricey to renew every 6 months for the last 10 years. No thanks.

I've always wondered about this when it came to electrical work where the permit is still open or never pulled. If it was done correctly who cares?

The AHJs need to make their money. That's more important than a job done correctly.
 

acer66

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Well, before we sold our previous house in 2021, I had a new roof installed. Just before the new owner closed on it, I was informed that the permit for that roofing job hand never been closed, despite the job being completed almost 60 days before that. The sale couldn't close until the permit was closed. I made a call to the building authority in that town, since I had already moved. They had no record of the sign-off on the permit. I checked my phone, though, and found the call from the inspector, who had called me after doing the inspection. I called him and explained that the permit was still open. So, he checked. Someone had typed in the wrong address at the building authority office, so the permit was never closed.

It matters. You have to stay on top of that stuff, and various inspections that happen around a sale can turn up things that were done improperly or without a permit, and the title search shows any open permits. Everything seems to happen just before the closing date, too, so it's often a scramble to get things wrapped up.

Yes, you can do a lot of things without a permit, but if you don't do them correctly, it's likely to be discovered during a property inspection and bollix up the whole deal. If it was done correctly, odds are it won't get discovered, but a major project that should have had a permit isn't going to squeak through. It might, but it might also kill the sale, in the end.
Very true, I was standing one time in the building permit department’s office when next to me was a man trying to find some older building permits for an addition to his house.

When he bought that house with the addition in place no one was asking if the addition was permitted or not but when he wanted to sell the house later times had changed and he needed to locate the permits for the sale.
 

Garcky

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Very true, I was standing one time in the building permit department’s office when next to me was a man trying to find some older building permits for an addition to his house.

When he bought that house with the addition in place no one was asking if the addition was permitted or not but when he wanted to sell the house later times had changed and he needed to locate the permits for the sale.
Yes. It happens. And, if the non-permitted addition isn't up to code, the entire sale can go down the toilet. That happens, too. More often than people realize.
 

pcmeiners

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"I've always wondered about this when it came to electrical work where the permit is still open or never pulled. If it was done correctly who cares?"

The banks care !!!!!
Had open tickets on plumbing and electric only because no one signed off when the jobs were done 20 years ago, the mortgage lending bank required the sign offs. Took me a couple of weeks running around to architects/contractors and $300 to get the signatures. Then 3 visits to the dept of buildings and and inspection from the DB; building dept first told me it might take a month or more to get the inspection done. Could you imagine if I still needed work done or the inspection failed. All this when the buyer wanted to buy the house before the interest rates increase.
Electrical Inspector comes, he told me he just wanted to see if the electrical plates were in place and he would sign off. :thumbup:
 

nadogail

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I bought a house that had been remodeled, my real estate agent insisted I check to make sure the work had been permitted. The fact that it was allowed me to pull a permit to repair a fence that would not be allowed under the existing codes, the existence of the permit proved the non conforming fence was "Grandfathered" and could be repaired even though replacement would not be allowed.

To repair the fence we could not pull down more than 25% at a time.
 

isb cornbinder

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Someone built a 5000sf two story house about 10 blocks from here. The contractor hauled in hundreds of truck loads of fill to raise the low side up to street level. The dirt fill was never settled or compacted. Shortly after the house was built, without a permit, it began to sink and tilt. The occupants were ordered to vacate and they refused. The occupants were removed and the house was taken down. The service connections are another subject for another time.
Try to remember, NO PERMITS, NO INSURANCE
 

Garcky

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"I've always wondered about this when it came to electrical work where the permit is still open or never pulled. If it was done correctly who cares?"

The banks care !!!!!
Had open tickets on plumbing and electric only because no one signed off when the jobs were done 20 years ago, the mortgage lending bank required the sign offs. Took me a couple of weeks running around to architects/contractors and $300 to get the signatures. Then 3 visits to the dept of buildings and and inspection from the DB; building dept first told me it might take a month or more to get the inspection done. Could you imagine if I still needed work done or the inspection failed. All this when the buyer wanted to buy the house before the interest rates increase.
Electrical Inspector comes, he told me he just wanted to see if the electrical plates were in place and he would sign off. :thumbup:
I learned something from the sale of our previous home. If you hire a contractor to do anything that requires a building permit, don't make the final payment for the work until the work is approved and the permit is closed. The contractor is responsible for scheduling the inspection. If you won't pay unlit the permit is closed, that keeps the contractor's attention on your project. Then, pay promptly. Be sure any mechanic's liens are cleared, too. Stay on top of those things and everything will go smoothly.
 
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Hobby_Man22

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"I've always wondered about this when it came to electrical work where the permit is still open or never pulled. If it was done correctly who cares?"

The banks care !!!!!
Had open tickets on plumbing and electric only because no one signed off when the jobs were done 20 years ago, the mortgage lending bank required the sign offs. Took me a couple of weeks running around to architects/contractors and $300 to get the signatures. Then 3 visits to the dept of buildings and and inspection from the DB; building dept first told me it might take a month or more to get the inspection done. Could you imagine if I still needed work done or the inspection failed. All this when the buyer wanted to buy the house before the interest rates increase.
Electrical Inspector comes, he told me he just wanted to see if the electrical plates were in place and he would sign off. :thumbup:
Wow. What a money grab.
 

mm08822

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While you may be able to claim it was like that when you bought it, you may find it an issue upon resale.

The Home Inspectors (most of them clowns) are looking for inspection stickers on hw heaters, furnaces, electric services, etc. Certain items have readily obvious dates on the nameplates, etc. Even romex and SE cable has manufacturing dates on the jacket. Dates on materials after the date you purchased the property can rat you out in a second.

Unpermitted finished basements are easy to detect.

Towns are doing a much better job of maintaining records now. You may get away with certain improvements for years but will probably be discovered during the CO walk-thru at time of sale. That is the time when money gets spent like water. Just fix the problem ASAP so the sale closes........or do it correctly from the start and it's a non-issue at time of sale.
 

u2slow

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Yes. It happens. And, if the non-permitted addition isn't up to code, the entire sale can go down the toilet. That happens, too. More often than people realize.

Pardon me if this sounds like fear-mongering.

In my experience.... for every person that gets cold feet on some would-be home purchase over permit history, there's 3 more willing to jump on it as-is.
 

mm08822

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Pardon me if this sounds like fear-mongering.

In my experience.... for every person that gets cold feet on some would-be home purchase over permit history, there's 3 more willing to jump on it as-is.
It's not even the HO or buyer getting cold feet. It's the banks, lawyers and title co's. If the sale can happen w/o a public mortgage then most of this goes away. The CO may be the only holdup.
 

yelchevelle

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A lot of permits where I live in Alabama are only a money grab. They don’t really care except for a handful of safety concerns, such as the porch above. I do outdoor construction. I have pulled countless permits only for the fee and tax implications. They don’t care on most of it, so no inspections. The worst are areas where the inspector doesn’t know what they are inspecting, such as pools. I moved from the country, and it amazes me how many people rely on the government to keep them “safe”. I don’t think that they do any inspections of any kind in the county where I grew up. I was blown away when I moved to the city.
 

LeonardY

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There is a flip side to this. I have a neighbor. Who is a commercial real estate guy.
He decided to shear off an engineered slope that had homes above. Code says if the "retaining wall is less than 3 feet it doesn't need a permit." He measured from the slope up, 24 inches. Then had 16 feet below that removed.
He had gone to a local yard to order the concrete (Not rated for structural.)
On the day that the 4 full concrete trucks showed up. There was a building inspector who just happened to inspecting the neighbor's patio cover.
He saw the trucks pulling in and asked to see a permit. Whoops. None. The trucks were sent away. Costing the neighbor $6000 in wash out fees. That doesn't include the cost of the concrete.
It turns out the yard supplying the concrete called the building department.
While that sounds messed up. I can tell you this neighbor has and will try to take advantage of every situation. He will hire a crew but not a company. He has on three separate occasions showed up with a petition for me to sign. Because he has been stopped by the HOA. I know there are a lot of people that don't like HOAs. I get it but in when you buy here, you sign on the dotted line to follow the rules.
The 3rd time. I told him I would sign but that was the last time. But that gives me the right to tell him what I really thought of his ****.
A day later, my other neighbor who is a Baptist Minister thanked me. He said he was about to talk to him in a way that was unbecoming of a minister.
Sorry for the long winded post. But this neighbor really irks me.
 
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Hobby_Man22

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It's not even the HO or buyer getting cold feet. It's the banks, lawyers and title co's. If the sale can happen w/o a public mortgage then most of this goes away. The CO may be the only holdup.
That's true. I thought the home inspector looked into this kind of thing. I was wrong.
There is a flip side to this. I have a neighbor. Who is a commercial real estate guy.
He decided to shear off an engineered slope that had homes above. Code says if the "retaining wall is less than 3 feet it doesn't need a permit." He measured from the slope up, 24 inches. Then had 16 feet below that removed.
He had gone to a local yard to order the concrete (Not rated for structural.)
On the day that the 4 full concrete trucks showed up. There was a building inspector who just happened to inspecting the neighbor's patio cover.
He saw the trucks pulling in and asked to see a permit. Whoops. None. The trucks were sent away. Costing the neighbor $6000 in wash out fees. That doesn't include the cost of the concrete.
It turns out the yard supplying the concrete called the building department.
While that sounds messed up. I can tell you this neighbor has and will try to take advantage of every situation. He will hire a crew but not a company. He has on three separate occasions showed up with a petition for me to sign. Because he has been stopped by the HOA. I know there are a lot of people that don't like HOAs. I get it but in when you buy here, you sign on the dotted line to follow the rules.
The 3rd time. I told him I would sign but that was the last time. But that gives me the right to tell him what I really thought of his ****.
A day later, my other neighbor who is a Baptist Minister thanked me. He said he was about to talk to him in a way that was unbecoming of a minister.
Sorry for the long winded post. But this neighbor really irks me.
Something tells me the washout fee wasn't paid.
 

Sumboodie

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I have read you can ignore codes in Alaska outside municipal jurisdictions but if not built to code and inspected, banks won't issue loans to you or prospective buyers.

Banks don't care (aside from the VA funded loans) provided it appraises for more than the loan.
 

nadogail

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If you bought it; you own it. You may well find yourself required to bring a property to code if the AHJ finds unpermited work on the property.

This is a Maybe, but still Buyer Beware, "Who knows what evil is concealed inside walls and crawl spaces."
 
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