Unpickable dead bolt? any locksmiths ?

[Gregster]

Well nothing is "Un" anything but I was looking at either at a Medeco Maxum but something tells me anything from Abloy is the way to go since it uses "Plates" making picking virtually impossible even by a pro or even drilling the cylinder.

This lock is going on a windowless steel shop door with a steel frame set in filled cinder block. I'm just on the fence of what dead bolt to buy...

Any ideas?

 

[nehog]

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link... If the deadbolt is too strong, a thief will simply find another way in.

Personally I'd say any reasonably quality lock should be sufficient. No thief will 'pick a lock' to get in. They will take a sledge hammer and bash in the door, a wall, or roof first. Thieves are not sophisticated, they don't pick locks. They do use brute force.

IMHO invest in a (good) video camera and recording system with hotspot detection to trip an alarm.

 

[MoToys]

Mul-t-lock interactive.

 

[Gregster]

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link... If the deadbolt is too strong, a thief will simply find another way in.

Personally I'd say any reasonably quality lock should be sufficient. No thief will 'pick a lock' to get in. They will take a sledge hammer and bash in the door, a wall, or roof first. Thieves are not sophisticated, they don't pick locks. They do use brute force.

IMHO invest in a (good) video camera and recording system with hotspot detection to trip an alarm.

We already have a video camera system with DVR setup at all access points. While the common thief might use a sledgehammer, I don't think that they'll get in with that. There are those who would try to pick a lock without making much noise...

 

[jeffmoss26]

oooh MTL

 

[Richard Cranium]

Medeco is a very good lock and I would say it is about as good as you can get. Google bump key and read about it. I think that the medeco is one that they can't bump.. Good luck... Rich

 

[Pate]

Nothing is "pick proof", but the better stuff on the market is the Medeco commercial, Schlage Primus, ASSA V-10/Twin. The Sargent Signature and Keymark stuff isn't too bad either. You should be way more concerned with the strength of the door and frame than a high security cyls. I have been in the lock industry for many years and have never heard about a house broken in by lock picking. It's easier to kick in the door...


http://toool.nl/

 

[coffeebean]

having tried to master picking locks ill go ahead and say that task is very difficult, and time consuming.

the bump keys aren't all that easy either. the people on you-tube must have a lot of time on their hand and be very driven. or they're gifted.

look up SchuylerTowne on you tube. he gives a basic rundown of how to pick and makes it look super easy. he also covers the locks that are resistant to picking.

no mater how much you improve your structure someone will always be able to get in. its just how much effort and time they have to expend. get a large dog.
good luck
dave

 

[G_P]

Recently thieves have taken to simply stealing a car and smashing it right through a wall.

Filled block will be tough but a car will smash right through it.

Good lighting and good cameras are a must. Hopefully the thieves will move on and find a shop with a flimsy door or windows that is easier to break into.

Do you have a roll up door on the shop? if so that would be where the thieves would most likely try to gain entry. Just about any rollup door will come right off its tracks even with a mild hit from a vehicle.

 

[1948]

what im doing with my shop since its in a pretty residential area is have the very loud bell hooked up as well as a motion sensor light WAY up on the ceiling. they arent going to want to sit there very long on a major road with that bell going off and bright lights! esp take the time to break into another door on the inside.

 

[rlitman]

Nobody is going to pick the Medeco, or an Abloy, or a Mul-t-lock or a Schlage Primus "in the field". They've all been picked, on a bench, with many hours dedicated to the work.

If you're worried about someone sneaking in "silently", with no traces left behind, these lock cylinders will certainly suit your needs, but I'm sure someone can come up with another way in.

The Abloy is very drill resistant, but so is the Medeco. Both have hardened parts inside, and while I don't know enough about the internals of the other two mentioned, I can safely assume they have some drill resistance too.

At my home, I chose Medeco over Abloy, because Medeco is a key I can hand to the wife (or others, etc.), and it works in the way that everyone expects a key to work.
Insert key, turn to unlock.
I have a number of Abloy padlocks, and while I'm happy with them, the mechanism requires inserting the key, and then turning to align the mechanism, followed by turning further to unlock. This is simple enough, when the key is retracted straight out, but if someone wiggles the key out, you'll need to wiggle the key in, to get the plates aligned enough to allow the key all the way in, before you can unlock. It's fine, if you know how it works, but it isn't intuitive for someone whose never used one before.

 

[DynoDave81]

The only protection against brute force is a camera. Just make sure the video is stored somewhere unreachable and is backed up.

The best protection against a silent intrusion is multiple (as in two or three) deadbolts. Each is pickable, but it becomes a considerable time commitment that most criminals won't mess with.

 

[rlitman]

The best protection against a silent intrusion is multiple (as in two or three) deadbolts. Each is pickable, but it becomes a considerable time commitment that most criminals won't mess with.

Or just install 5 deadbolts, but only leave three locked. By the time the thief has picked all of them, he'll be real frustrated to find out he locked two.

 

[RECox286]

Locks are for the honest people. There is no system that can't be gotten into or around. Get a Big Dog with a bear sized voice box.

Uncle Bob

 

[2manytoyz]

Unfortunately, a lock alone won't do much.

Even the best dead bolt isn't any match for a cordless angle grinder with a cut-off wheel. Turn it vertical, slide it in the gap between the door and door frame, slice through the bolt.

I had the locks cut off a storage unit a few years ago. Dozens had been hit that night. They used bolt cutters on those. I did some testing of my own, and was surprised how easy it is to get past hardened locks even with the tools I have.

Take a look at a hardened padlock vs. a cut-off wheel. This is my own lock, which had sand it in. Had to be cut off. I notified the front office, but NOBODY at the huge storage facility stopped to see what the noise was. Took maybe 15 seconds...

When I worked at an alarm company years ago, the manager told me the best deterrant was a alarm decals. I've plastered my home with these, and installed an alarm system. I've also modified the alarm with the loudest sirens (plural) that I could find. When mine goes off, the last thing anyone would want to do is take the time to shop.

Here's the source for the sirens: http://www.smarthome.com/72762/Elk-Outdoor-120dB-Horn-Siren-SS30/p.aspx 120dB.

Keep the sirens hidden (in soffits works well) so they can't be defeated.

The quiet way to get past a doorway is to put a jack sideways in the door jam near the dead bolt. The frame is pushed apart, and the door simply swings open with the dead bolt still extended.

 

[55dude]

the alarm decals work great and one of my buddies has a speaker wireless hooked to his computer that simulates a test horn to make folks think he has a alarm but he really uses a big dog backed by a big gun!

 

[nehog]

...
Even the best dead bolt isn't any match for a cordless angle grinder with a cut-off wheel. Turn it vertical, slide it in the gap between the door and door frame, slice through the bolt.
...

Good dead bolts do have a 'rolling' pin in them to prevent this type of cutting. The pin simply spins inside the bolt and that stops both cut-off wheels and hacksaws.

But again, thieves are generally not sophisticated enough to pick a lock--they are looking for easy pickings, don't care about your door, wall, window, roof or anything else that is yours (that they can't steal and sell, that is) and they will get in. Show me a shop and I'll show you how to be inside in under a minute or two!

 

[jhelrey]

I'll just go though your window or if you have fiber sheathing, I will just kick in your crappy vinyl siding, sheathing, and sheet-rock if any and I am in.

 

[Northstar]

That cordless cut off tool could also cut AROUND the lock and right through the door. Myself, I'm partial to making my own door with det-cord and earplugs or a chainsaw through the wall itself, but those aren't really gonna happen in most cases.

 

[fredybender]

Geez Greg, I don't know, what area your from, or even better, I wouldn't want to live in your neighbourhood...
I didn't think we were that bad
I know there a dirtbags everywhere, but it just seems your not messing around with security ;nothing wrong with that, but I guess I'm not as focused as you on this

 

[Steves32]

A little paranoid arent ya?

Get a big dog & an alarm on doors & motion detectors Then insure everything.
If someone wants in- they will get in.
Maybe it's time to move to a better area.

 

[2manytoyz]

That cordless cut off tool could also cut AROUND the lock and right through the door. Myself, I'm partial to making my own door with det-cord and earplugs or a chainsaw through the wall itself, but those aren't really gonna happen in most cases.

For sure. The same storage facility, where I had a break-in, later had a fire on another row of units. Someone left a dehumidifier running on a skinny extension cord, set his bay on fire. The smoke billowed out of all the units on that row since they all share the same roof, and are not air tight.

The fire dept showed up, and rather than cut the locks, they sliced up each door in seconds.

If someone wants in, it's not difficult with the right tools. On a house, could cut through the roof with a cordless circular saw in about a minute.

A LOUD alarm system will limit their shopping time, security cameras will show you who to "pay a visit", and insurance will cover the rest.

While we can't stop them, we can "usually" limit what they get, and our out of pocket expenses.

 

[smalltruck]

The quiet way to get past a doorway is to put a jack sideways in the door jam near the dead bolt. The frame is pushed apart, and the door simply swings open with the dead bolt still extended.

This is the fast and easy way. A cheap porta power kit and the door opens silently in 10 seconds. To stop this with a steel door frame you have to fill the frame with concrete and have it set into concrete block or walls. Wood framing and the porta power will push the studs out of the way.

If a thief really wants in its easier to hand him the keys because you will have less mess to clean up. But if you have a large dog inside the mess might be smelly...

 

[ptschram]

I have an insurance policy that lists all of my tools and machinery/fixtures/equipment along with pictures of almost all of it.

It is the only way I've been able to sleep at night for the past ten years or so.

Yes, I have two dogs and there might be a gun that survived that tragic boating accident, but insurance lets me sleep.

 

[SuperSocket]

No one picks locks anymore... it's all about smash and grab these days.


Now if you have something like a 1931 Bugatti Royale Kellner Coupe in your garage... then you might get quite a few expert lock pickers trying their hand at it.

 

[taterdog]

Medeco and Primus brand deadbolts cannot be picked.

 

[MoToys]

Medeco and Primus brand deadbolts cannot be picked.

Nope, both can. Primus is a joke and really is not high security.

 

[Kevin54]

No one picks locks anymore... it's all about smash and grab these days.


Now if you have something like a 1931 Bugatti Royale Kellner Coupe in your garage... then you might get quite a few expert lock pickers trying their hand at it.

Exactly. Steal a truck, back it in and load it up. In and out in just a couple of minutes.

 

[taterdog]

Nope, both can. Primus is a joke and really is not high security.

Ok. Just quoting a friend...i dont trust locks...if i was a crook id just bust a window, door or cut a hole in he side of you house and walk in

 

[KPSquared]

Who the hell takes time to pick a lock? Especially a good quality deadbolt? Stop lying to yourself.

Fill the steel door and door frame with 'crete, make sure they are secured to the walls well. Invest in cameras (to prove to insurance you were robbed), an alarm (scares lazy thieves and usually good for insurance premium reduction) and get good insurance.

Just document everything you own on video and then store the video in a few different locations. I've even stored a couple on online file storage places. Every time I purchase something new I shoot a couple pics, take some video, and then upload it to 2 different places. That way I can prove to insurance what I had when the bad people came. . .

There is no way to 100% prevent a B&E. If you had a bunch of crazy expensive tools in that place I'd steal two trucks . . .one to drive through the wall and one to load up the ****. Then if the door shook loose in the impact, I'd see your super nice deadbolt and steal that as well. . .

 

[MoToys]

Ok. Just quoting a friend...i dont trust locks...if i was a crook id just bust a window, door or cut a hole in he side of you house and walk in

I gotcha, just wanted to clarify.
I understand your viewpoint and thats why security is in layers, not just one big deadbolt on a door.
What most don't understand is that the High Security Keyways give key control and that is how I sell it most of the time. You will know how many keys exist for your system, always.

 

[Zeke]

The best protection against a silent intrusion is multiple (as in two or three) deadbolts. Each is pickable, but it becomes a considerable time commitment that most criminals won't mess with.

Of different brands. Most common locks use one of two patterns. Commercial locks will have a different key style. The bump thief will have to spend some time. Time they often don't have.

This Yale rim lock is the bomb.

 

[sirsloop]

A determined thief is nearly unstoppable. If the lock is too stong they will kick in the door. If the door is too strong to kick in they will cut it. If the door is too solid to cut they will cut the wall open. If the entire place is absolutely bombproof they will break into your house and steal your keys. Simply make the place a task to enter without making a god aweful amount of noise. Place video cameras at all ingress points. Use an alarm system with IR, sound, and magnetic sensors, and make sure it is connected to a battery/UPS and serviced via a cellular card. Ya a tricky thief may try to cut your power hoping your alarm system will go off, or cut your telephone line at the pop hoping the cops won't get called.

There are a lot of distributors around the Jamesburg, NJ area. One in particular distributes perfume. A (probably) team climbed up on the roof, removed a skylight, rigged up a climbing harness, lowered a person into the warehouse at a precise location, raised up something stupid like $500,000 worth of designer perfume, and did it at night without setting off an alarm or getting caught. I say inside job, but it still happened! Perfume is a great steal cause its small and easy to move, very valuable, and easy to sell on the black market.

 

[Steves32]

Years ago- my shop was in an industrial strip complex. I had lots of copper in it (plumbing & HVAC shop). Front of shop was glass & I had those steel acordian locking security gates installed to deter theft.
Or so I thought.
Thieves broke into the unit 3 doors down early Sunday morning which was vacant. Then they took a sawzall & cut through the steel stud & drywalled walls separating the units. Next door was a race team that built cars & engines. Stole all his tool boxes & 2- 40k race motors. Then they cut into my wall & stole copper & tools to the tune of about 40k. I had an alarm on mine but didn't matter. They knew right where to look for the alarm box (right in plain view)& cut the battery back-up. Note- phone lines were in the utility room next to electrical room. Both doors had been forced open They cut power & phone lines before they broke in.

 

[sirsloop]

I installed an alarm system at a small office I used to work at. Same thing.. industrial office type place, like 30ft to the roof deck. Well you got plenty of room above the 8ft ceiling to move around, and the walls between suites are just two pieces of drywall, some insulation, and flimsy metal studs. You could EASILY sawzall right through the walls... go through a few offices in minutes.

Anyways, I thought ahead and placed IR sensors above the ceiling facing at key locations in case anyone got the bright idea to come in from the ceiling. We had IR coverage in every room including the exterior walls. We had glass break sensors all over the office. The alarm box was centralized in the office not against any outside wall and was connected to a large Eaton Powerware 9170+ UPS, and it had its own DC battery after the AC/DC converter. We also had a CAT Olympian 200kVa diesel generator in the parking lot which would kick on via an automatic transfer switch in the event of utility power failure. The alarm would go off if it lost connection to any of the sensors while armed. It was connected via cellular to the central office. If utility power failed we were called from the office, and had remote video capabilities. If a card was stolen and used after hours key people would receive a phone call and again video could be checked. I truly believe that place is impossible to break into without setting off the alarm. Even if the alarm is somehow disabled without being triggered, the power goes off, generator disabled, UPS disabled, video disabled, etc etc... the alarm system has a heartbeat going to the CO all the time and police would be dispatched because its not functional! HAHA!

 

[Tjc]

How are your hinges? Those van be taken off eaisly if swings open.

 

[indy500canada]

I wonder when alarm companies will put the alarms on a high speed circuit. That way when the phone line is cut the alarm will go off and the monitor will be notified?

I work for the phone company and a guy I met a few years ago had his alarm like this.

1) If it went off a loud OUTDOOR speaker and strobe light and spotlights around his house would go off.

2) the alarm would call his cell as well as the monitor company.

The neighbors apparently had some access to turn off any false alarm

Better than a passive setup IMHO.

Do not know how he set it up but I thought it was kool

 

[sirsloop]

A siren and strobe area addon's for most alarm systems. Instead of placing the siren inside he mounted it outside. Cell call is a normal feature when you pay for monitoring. Heartbeat which monitors your phone line is also a normal feature for paid monitoring. If you set the alarm up right, it will be extremely difficult to defeat without being caught. The task would be difficult if you knew everything about the alarm. If you know nothing about its capabilities... very easy to be caught.

 

[2manytoyz]

More expensive alarm systems have a built-in cell phone. Takes a SIM card, just like a cell phone. Can use a Go-Phone type contract, with a very minimal expense since you won't use much air time.

www.smarthome.com has a number of these systems. Look for "Alarm GSM Modem".

Also, even the most basic stand-alone alarm systems are tied to the phone line. If the line is cut, THAT will set the alarm off! Heck, even the old 1990s era Radio Shack systems had that feature.

Don't pay for monthly monitoring. You aren't getting anything extra for your money. I used to monitor alarm systems as a part time job when I was in college. Most any alarm system comes with an autodialer, and YOU can pick who it calls.

Alarm companies also don't call the police directly anymore. Did when I was working there in 1983. Now they must contact the owner first. Said to reduce nuisance calls.

 

[Zeke]

How are your hinges? Those van be taken off eaisly if swings open.

And you have done this? I ask because I installed doors for a living for many years and found that the hinge knuckles do not slide past each other all that easily. IOW, if you can muscle that, you might as well just keep working on the latch side. It will give up with a big crow bar every time.

One bolt vs. 3 hinges. You decide.

Oh, and I used NRP hinges most of the time just to placate people who never tried to pry the door from the hinge side.