Updating Outlets/Switches

[D45]

My house was built in the late 1970s, and I have all different colors switches and outlets, throughout the house........including wall plates that don't even match

The outlets and switches are dirty and some are covered with paint and even wallpaper

I want to start going room to room, and updating ALL the switches and outlets

I really like the look of the Decoca line of outlets, compared to the standard duplex

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...-Outlet-White-10-Pack-M24-05325-WMP/100357041

My questions are:

1) Quick wire push-in terminals.......are they good or bad? I have always just looped the wire around the screw terminal

2) Is wrapping each switch and each outlet with electrical tape the best method when installing devices?

3) Is Leviton the best "big box store" brand? What about Lutron?

4) I know for safety reasons, the breakers should be turned off when doing electrical work.......I get it. However, for time savings, my friend said to just buy insulated electrician gloves for $20. Do you guys 100% of the time shut off the power when swapping switches/outlets?

 

[pattenp]

1) Don't use push-in connection, buy better quality with screw clamping connections.
2) Wrapping with tape is not standard practice and should not be needed.
3) Either are okay.
4) turn off the power, using gloves is just plain dumb.

Also depending on your code cycle you may need tamper resistant outlets and also may need Arcfault outlets.

 

[American Locomotive]

1) The self-locking "back-stab" push in terminals are junk, and I don't know why they're even legal to use. They always end up having problems 5-10 years down the line. Either just wrap the wire around the screw, or get the more expensive "clamping" outlets. More expensive outlets have "clamp" style terminals, where you turn the screws and a metal plate clamps the wire.

2) This varies by who you ask. Some electricians always wrap, some never wrap. The guys that never wrap say wrapping means you don't trust your connections, the guys that do wrap say they're adding an extra layer of safety. I personally don't wrap with plastic boxes, but I always wrap with metal boxes - especially the small/shallow boxes in industrial locations where 600 pound gorillas may be wrenching plugs right out of the outlet.

3) Leviton, Lutron, Hubbell, etc... are all good brands. However they all have different product ranges are different price points. You can get some pretty chintzy stuff from them, or some really nice stuff. The only outlets I really don't like are Pass & Seymour - at least the ones Lowes sells.

4) Always turn off the power

5) For what it's worth, I don't recommend that style of outlet for hard to reach outlets (such as under tables, behind furniture, behind appliances, etc..) They're a huge hassle when trying to plug something in blind. You basically have to get the plug aligned perfectly before it goes in. Traditional outlets guide the prongs into the slots.

 

[D45]

I don't believe I will have any plastic boxes in my house, all will be metal

 

[pattenp]

5) For what it's worth, I don't recommend that style of outlet for hard to reach outlets (such as under tables, behind furniture, behind appliances, etc..) They're a huge hassle when trying to plug something in blind. You basically have to get the plug aligned perfectly before it goes in. Traditional outlets guide the prongs into the slots.

Under the NEC There are only a couple of exceptions where tamper resistant receptacles are not required and your recommendations in most part don't meet the exceptions. See NEC 406.12

 

[American Locomotive]

Under the NEC There are only a couple of exceptions where tamper resistant receptacles are not required and your recommendations in most part don't meet the exceptions. See NEC 406.12

Okay, and your point is what exactly? You can get recessed slot TR outlets.

 

[pattenp]

Okay, and your point is what exactly? You can get recessed slot TR outlets.

May be I misunderstood what you were recommending, but I read it as you are suggesting not to use that style (tamper resistant receptacles) in areas that are required by NEC to have tamper resistant receptacles.

Edit: I see now you are referring to the Decora style. My mistake.

 

[mdog892001]

Your in a house you shouldn’t need TR outlets.
Always turn off power.
Wrapping is up to you.
Arch fault is only for bathroom and kitchen or where water may be present close to electric.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pattenp]

Your in a house you shouldn’t need TR outlets.
Always turn off power.
Wrapping is up to you.
Arch fault is only for bathroom and kitchen or where water may be present close to electric.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You need to catch up on the NEC. TR has been required and Arcfault also is required as of 2014. GFCI is kit & bath. NEC 210.12 & 406.12

 

[ard]

"Rubber gloves'?!?

YOU getting shocked is only a small part of what can go wrong- touching two wires, getting a screwdriver in contact with a ground - all can cause actual damage.

You would need to be EXCEEDINGLY careful, even with gloves. It will take you 2-3 times longer to finish each one.

I cannot fathom a valid rationale for not turning a breaker off- faster, easier, safer. the singular downside is that you might lose info (clock, station) that is stored on something. BUT, that something will need to be unplugged anyway, when you get to that outlet.

And this is from someone that works on live circuits and boxes....

 

[850xpeps]

Put em in and pretend they were swapped prior to 2014. The tr plugs are the biggest pitta.

Are you legally required to get a permit to replace faulty plugs? Say his plugs are bad one by one. I don’t think you are. Can they not be replaced with what they were?

 

[pattenp]

Put em in and pretend they were swapped prior to 2014. The tr plugs are the biggest pita.

For the TR requirement you need to go back further than 2014, I believe 2008 or 2011. Arcfault is as of 2014.

 

[yeldogt]

I'm not fond of the tamper resistant. That said -- don't buy the cheap line from the big box stores. Get a better line from a real supplier -- you can sill buy them by the case.

Personally I always use pigtails w/ nuts -- only have one set of wires to the outlet.

The back wire w/screw is fine in the better line. I also like the pigtails with the wire nut attached if the box is large enough since the wire comes out the top.

Lutron makes a fine product -- typically a bit more money but they come is more colors.

 

[rlitman]

Put em in and pretend they were swapped prior to 2014. The tr plugs are the biggest pitta.

Are you legally required to get a permit to replace faulty plugs? Say his plugs are bad one by one. I don’t think you are. Can they not be replaced with what they were?

Current code does not generally expire items installed to previous code, just as the previous generation of bills in your wallet are still valid at the bank. You are allowed to fix what you have, to the standard that it was built to. That's why you can still buy ungrounded outlets and 48 star flags are still in production.

> 1) Quick wire push-in terminals.......are they good or bad?

Bad.

> 2) Is wrapping each switch and each outlet with electrical tape

Covering the screws with tape is not required, however, it offers two advantages. First, if you're coming back with a spackle knife to touch up plaster around the box with the cover off, it's safer to have the screws tapes, and second, its safer to push the outlet into the box, and pull it out, if you've decided to work on it live (more on that below).

3) Is Leviton the best "big box store" brand? What about Lutron?

Lutron makes some very good stuff. ANY electrical supplies you buy today will be better than the very best stuff available when your house was built. Even the cheap stuff nowadays is fairly good.

> 4) ... said to just buy insulated electrician gloves for $20...

Gloves are more than $20. For the gloves alone. Then you NEED the covers, and should have a glove bag. And you MUST check them, and know how to check them for safety.

And even then, as has already been pointed out, gloves only protect you from shock. Arc-flash isn't a big risk at 120V, but there are plenty of other bad things you can do, gloves or no. That's not to say that I haven't replaced an outlet or two hot. But insulated screwdrivers and pliers are still more useful here than gloves.

 

[manwithtools]

As for number 4 in your list? Does your buddy not like you?

That's just not good advice, you are just asking for trouble. Turning off the breaker and checking all the circuits is a good way to label the breakers correctly at the same time you are replacing switches and outlets.

My experience is older homes generally have had enough things changed that the labeling in the breaker panel is frequently not correct. Now is the time to confirm and relabel.

 

[Bert_]

ANY electrical supplies you buy today will be better than the very best stuff available when your house was built. Even the cheap stuff nowadays is fairly good.

Some of the stuff made today is good quality no question. But many houses get the cheap "residential grade" devices, they don't last.

In old houses I often see 80+ year old switches that are still working with daily use. A residential grade switch won't last anywhere near that long, Spec grade or heavy duty devices might come close. They cost 3-6 dollars as opposed to 50 cents for the residential grade though

 

[southalabama]

Time savings? That's the rationale for not turning off the power?

Is that minute potentially worth your life?

Your life your choice.

I'd use the opportunity to label the breakers if they aren't now.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

1- Don't use backstabs, either screw terminals or higher quality with screw clamps.
2- Tape isn't needed, but can be a good idea in metal boxes or if you're not careful.
3- Leviton is good, either works.
4- Always turn off the power, no need to keep it on. It doesn't make you a macho man.

 

[larry4406]

Check your pricing before you start down this path...

Decora stuff is more expensive. 50-100% more compared to regular style. Costs can add up quickly.
- 10 pack Decora single pole switches $16.10 vs $8.80 for regular.
- 10 pack Decora duplex outlet $17.90 vs $10.40

Prices from my local Home Depot

 

[matt_i]

Power off, no gloves. I am required to wear those w leather protectors when working in AC panels at work. I have no dexterity and it feels like I'm going to drop every tool into the exposed bus bars. That plus my hands start to sweat in the rubber gloves and its disconcerting that now I have wet-feeling hands + doing electrical work inside an AC panel...thankfully we don't do much of this.

Personally I don't go for the cheapest price point of whatever brand is out there at the box store. I want to do the job once in my life and not again in another 12 years. I feel like the higher grade/higher priced outlets will get me to a point where its someone else's problem.

I side tape if there's a stupid number of conductors already in the j-box, which I've come across a few times (before the box fill calcs were a thing). Being no room all it takes is a ground to get pushed the wrong way and there could be a problem.

 

[awdblazer]

since your house was built in the 70's does it have aluminum wiring? if so you cant do decora cause no one makes a al/clr decora style plug

 

[bugnut]

I just updated my 1976 home as you ask. Please note in the past 20 years 3 different electricians have done work in my home.
1-a majority of what i replaced were back push in NONE were loose, in the majority of cases I followed that pattern.
2-none were wrapped old boxes are bakelite, new plastic not needed and none were taped
3-I bought box store lutron and leviton, so do your electrical contractors
4-turn off the breakers and now is a good time to map every room for what breaker controls what outlet/switch
Easy to do, wear the gloves that you like as 12 and 14 gage wire cuts pretty good ask me how I know!

 

[sberry]

I havnt had a single problem with the cheap stuff. There was a time I would have argued that, now I have them with substantial time and use on them and doesn't mean squat.

 

[Hawk]

I prefer backstabs/with clamp screw.
As stated often, the main reason to tape is in metal boxes which you said you have I believe.
Lutron and Levitron are both good names, I just do not get their cheapest models.
Most importantly, I remember a good friend who thought "I am going to only change a few outlets, so I do not need to shut the circuit breaker off.". Turns out he changed 3 with no problems, on the fourth he needed to reshape the end of the lead and grounded the line. He got knocked across the floor. Guess that was a lesson learned. Turn them off so you do not get bit in a moments distraction.

 

[dogdog]

since your house was built in the 70's does it have aluminum wiring? if so you cant do decora cause no one makes a al/clr decora style plug

If you do have aluminum wiring, I think you can use that Ideal noalox paste with a stranged copper wire as pigtail (pretty sure there are other brands, NoaLox is available in HD / Lowes) ... they used to some special pigtails a package for this as well, I think you can just make your own, but definitely use that noalox antioxidant and the proper wire nut for al/copper wires. I would go to your town hall and find out what is allowed. Remember aluminum 10Gage is about the copper 12 Gauge... so don't go crazy thinking you have a larger gauge wire and running more amps.... and 12ga alum is about 14 copper.

this thing....
https://www.homedepot.com/s/noalox?NCNI-5

I havnt had a single problem with the cheap stuff. There was a time I would have argued that, now I have them with substantial time and use on them and doesn't mean squat.

I think if it is your house, and you are planning on living there for a while, I would get the commercial grade outlets and switch. I have used both... and found the commercial grade stuff a lot better. No, the cheaper one will work as well. but the commercial grade stuff is so much better to install, more study, and the plastic is double thickness, and the plug sits much nicer and, firmer in those sockets.

When I was renovating, I replace all outlet with the cheap stuff, used to be $12 a box... now a few years later, when I am replacing the outlets that break, I replace it with the commercial grade...


I can't find the decora outlet but this is the example of the standard one.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...-Outlet-White-10-Pack-M22-CBR15-WMP/100684044

 

[cybrdyke]

I have decora in my house. If I were to do it over, I wouldn't use them again. It can be hard to make them perfectly straight on the box and if they're not perfectly straight, they look like **** when you put the wall plate on. My 2c.....
CD

 

[sberry]

I use them in my shop. A house sees way less wear than my workbench.

 

[Norcal]

Current code does not generally expire items installed to previous code, just as the previous generation of bills in your wallet are still valid at the bank. You are allowed to fix what you have, to the standard that it was built to. That's why you can still buy ungrounded outlets and 48 star flags are still in production.

> 1) Quick wire push-in terminals.......are they good or bad?

Bad.

> 2) Is wrapping each switch and each outlet with electrical tape

Covering the screws with tape is not required, however, it offers two advantages. First, if you're coming back with a spackle knife to touch up plaster around the box with the cover off, it's safer to have the screws tapes, and second, its safer to push the outlet into the box, and pull it out, if you've decided to work on it live (more on that below).

3) Is Leviton the best "big box store" brand? What about Lutron?

Lutron makes some very good stuff. ANY electrical supplies you buy today will be better than the very best stuff available when your house was built. Even the cheap stuff nowadays is fairly good.

> 4) ... said to just buy insulated electrician gloves for $20...

Gloves are more than $20. For the gloves alone. Then you NEED the covers, and should have a glove bag. And you MUST check them, and know how to check them for safety.

And even then, as has already been pointed out, gloves only protect you from shock. Arc-flash isn't a big risk at 120V, but there are plenty of other bad things you can do, gloves or no. That's not to say that I haven't replaced an outlet or two hot. But insulated screwdrivers and pliers are still more useful here than gloves.

As long as the devices are left alone they are fine, as soon as you replace them then you trigger the new code requirements in effect at the time the devices are being replaced including GFCI & AFCI + tamper resistant.

 

[CoogarXR]

If you don't want to shut off each circuit one-by-one, just wait until a nice sunny day, turn off the main and do them all at once. That's what I used to do with rentals. This also saves you from the surprise of that one rogue outlet that was added later and is on a different (still live) circuit.

 

[PoorOwner]

I have a few worn out outlet that I needed to replace. I just got a scanner to locate the correct breaker. I used to think they are around $150 maybe for the advanced one but I got the basic Klein for $40

 

[ford33]

On older homes the breakers may not be labeled accurately. A small investment in a tool to find a breaker connected to an outlet is very helpful. Read the instructions otherwise you will have trouble with it.

I replaced all outlets and switches in my home last year. It takes time for a DIY to do this job so plan for extra time.

A couple of other suggestions. Buy quality outlets and switches. They cost more but you are saving money by doing the work yourself. Also make a new circuit breaker panel label sheet using an online template or MS Excel. You can write more details on which rooms and outlets are for each breaker. It comes in handy when you do forget later.

 

[mm08822]

If you don't want to shut off each circuit one-by-one, just wait until a nice sunny day, turn off the main and do them all at once. That's what I used to do with rentals. This also saves you from the surprise of that one rogue outlet that was added later and is on a different (still live) circuit.

Ive done that few times. Most helpful in kitchen. One and done!

 

[D45]

If you don't want to shut off each circuit one-by-one, just wait until a nice sunny day, turn off the main and do them all at once. That's what I used to do with rentals. This also saves you from the surprise of that one rogue outlet that was added later and is on a different (still live) circuit.

This is a great idea........looks like I will start buying outlets/switches/plates slowly over the next 2 months and after winter is done.........I will kill the main and do it all at once

 

[D45]

Will it be any cheaper to buy in bulk online, or are the big box stores pretty close in price?

I like the idea of the commercial grade devices........I have these all in my garage, and can definitely tell a difference in quality

 

[75gmck25]

You might find bulk products cheaper online, but most big box stores also have bulk packaging options. For example, you can buy standard receptacles in packages of 10, and many other items are marked at a lower price if you buy a certain amount (tag on the shelf shows both prices). For example, at HD a 10 pack of Leviton tamper-resistant receptacles is $10.40, while a single receptacle is $1.24.

I always end up buying too much for my electrical work, so having a store that will take the excess back easily is also worthwhile for me. I know that if you use a credit card at HD, they will track purchases against that credit card, so you don't need a receipt when you bring it back. They just run the credit card, then scan the return items, and it matches it all up and gives you a credit.

Bruce

 

[jvitez]

Decora switches are fine for residential grade but I like the feel of "spec grade" toggle switches better. I too don't like Decora receptacles. They look more modern but +1 on difficult to actually use if you're groping around something. Regular receptacles are cheaper and better/easier to use.

 

[alfredeneuman]

my friend said to just buy insulated electrician gloves for $20.

Insulated rubber electrician gloves with proper cowhide outers cost a helluva lot more than $20.
Your friend is giving you some extremely bad advice.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Insulated rubber electrician gloves with proper cowhide outers cost a helluva lot more than $20.
Your friend is giving you some extremely bad advice.

Id take the $20.00 and put it towards a good set of insulated strippers myself.

 

[PoorOwner]

How exactly do you remove the "backstab" wire from the backstabbed outlet? I take a screw driver but sometimes end up destroying the whole outlet. Not that I am going to reuse those outlet, but I was thinking I may be using the wrong tool. (I use a small jewelry size flat blade screw driver)

 

[dogdog]

No needed to be so fancy ..... with insulated gloves etc.... just get a good non-contact voltage detector, and do it that way... work on one circuit at a time... If your house is that old and mislabeled... It is a perfect time right now to ID and labels them as you go, I have made an excel sheet and keep all the info which socket goes what breaker down to the neutral wires... ... You'll just have to get used to the idea of test before touching a wire as in any common sense safety...