Upgrading drill press chuck

[Mesozoic]

I've got a Nova Viking DVR drill press, which is a really nice machine for my purposes. However, the chuck it comes with is a JT33 unit (3-jaw chuck) that doesn't work with square drive taps. The arbor tongue is a 2MT. Is there a practical upgrade I can perform to accurately drive square drive taps without having to change chucks as I need to drill and tap?

 

[The Cobbler]

drill presses aren't typically designed for tapping .
but we all seem to do it. I just grab the tap as best as I can in the chuck & hope for the best

 

[txvwnut]

Look for a tapping head, they ain’t cheap but they‘re what you want when power tapping.

 

[Mesozoic]

This machine was definitely designed for something like tapping. You can set the depth at which the machine will reverse the drill rotation precisely. It will even auto start the process if you want. It runs down to 100 RPM simply by turning the dial, being controlled by a VFD.

I'm pretty new to purchasing anything machine related, so if anyone can share some ideas for good brands for a tapping head, please do.

 

[Rinspeed]

I'm pretty new to purchasing anything machine related, so if anyone can share some ideas for good brands for a tapping head, please do.

I don't know what's out now newer and better but Tapmatic were always well respected, not a cheap date at all but they work well. Maybe take a look on Ebay for a used one.

 

[GeoBruin]

You don't need a tapmatic if you've got a Nova Viking that can reverse itself at a set depth. That said, I'm not aware of a factor tap holder that is intended to fit into a drill chuck. Typically you would swap out the chuck for a tap holder with a 2MT shank like you would use in a lathe tailstock.

 

[nadogail]

I upgraded the chuck on my Taiwan made drill press to a Ball Bearing Jacobs Chuck I ordered from MSC, easy job.

 

[GeoBruin]

I upgraded the chuck on my Taiwan made drill press to a Ball Bearing Jacobs Chuck I ordered from MSC, easy job.

Sounds like a nice chuck. But it would still have the same problem with the OP's intended use which is holding a tap.

 

[Mesozoic]

My application is basically tapping NPT threads into aluminum. One of the taps is for 1/4" NPT threading and the square shank is 10.7mm (0.42"), which puts it into the M18 category tap size. The other tap is a 3/8" NPT thread where the square is 14.5mm (0.57") and puts it into the M20 category at least. The sizing of tapping chucks appears to specify things in metric - I used this handy page for reference.

I'm a bit confused about how to size the tapping chuck still, though because when I read the specs for this Emuge chuck, it clearly states the minimum tap capacity is M3, but nothing about the maximum. I see a spec for "Hole Diameter" being 19mm, but not sure if that's roughly the maximum?

 

[tool_scrounge]

This solution may work for the the smaller tap.

Find a Jacobs 44102 tap chuck (#10-1/2" capacity) WITH correct the rubber flex collet. Like below.


here is one of several on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/167151519254

Attached a JT tapered to straight shank. Shorten straight shank portion as needed.Clamp the shank in the chuck of your current drill press.





Conceptually you want this with a shorter straight shank.

 

[GeoBruin]

A cheap, easy solution that would give you a lot of flexibility would be to pick up an er32 collet chuck with a 2MT shank, and then purchase whatever tap collets you need.

Here's a colet chuck: MT2/3/4 Morse Taper Shank to ER32/40 Collet Chucks, Max RPM 8,000 https://share.google/sGqHycOk3oDnkgewB

And you can pick your tap collets: Tap Collets | MSC Industrial Supply Co. https://share.google/tUiqh395auA8ItP7q

 

[Mesozoic]

Haha I was researching and came to the same conclusion myself! Thanks for confirming that one!

 

[dr_clyde]

Are you under the impression you can't hold a tap in a 3 jaw chuck?

A dedicated tapping machine/head will interface with the square drive on the back of a tap, but the vast majority of taps are held in either an ER collet or a Jacobs style chuck.

I prefer ball bearing Jacobs SuperChucks for taps, they do hold better.

The tap slipping in the chuck is a feature, not a bug. This acts as a torque relief instead of snapping your tap off. Sharp taps properly lubricated cut fine with the amount of grip achieved with a 3 jaw drill chuck or collet.

I run all kinds of taps in my CNCs with plain chucks and collets and have for years and years.

 

[MJD1]

Put a 1/4" hex to 3/8" drive adapter in the drill chuck and then use a lisle tap socket. Otherwise a Jacob's ball bearing chuck grips down enough on the round shank to drive a tap.

 

[Mesozoic]

I was getting slippage with my stock JT33 3-jaw chuck on the tap shank, for sure. I was only able to power tap to 5mm before slippage occurred, but it certainly made enough progress to allow me to hand tap the remainder. I think I have ruined my JT33 3-jaw chuck at this point, so am looking for a new one.

I would like to upgrade to an ER32 collet chuck, but it seems there are 2 routes to mount one. One route is to get a native 2MT ER32 collet chuck. The other is to get a JT33 EW32 collet chuck, which is also a bit cheaper. I'm guessing here, but I imagine the runout gets progressively worse as you add more attachments to the drivetrain, so the native 2MT collet chuck would be the most precise and the JT33 mounted one would be a compromise.

 

[dr_clyde]

I routinely power tap up to 5/8” with a Jacobs Superchuck.

I’d try getting a ball bearing chuck before spending a bunch of money on tapping specific tooling.

 

[oldmachinenut]

Be aware that the recent import Jacobs ball bearing Superchucks are not nearly the same quality as the older ones stamped Hartford Ct.
I have Jacobs Superchucks on all my machines, I searched and found ones stamped Hartford Ct. After I was given a nearly new Jacobs that was laser etched, very disappointing.

 

[txvwnut]

I would like to upgrade to an ER32 collet chuck, but it seems there are 2 routes to mount one. One route is to get a native 2MT ER32 collet chuck. The other is to get a JT33 EW32 collet chuck, which is also a bit cheaper. I'm guessing here, but I imagine the runout gets progressively worse as you add more attachments to the drivetrain, so the native 2MT collet chuck would be the most precise and the JT33 mounted one would be a compromise.

Whatever accessory you buy you want 2MT. The taper in the quill is more forgiving to be swapped on a regular basis than a JT33 taper, easier too.

 

[GeoBruin]

I think I have ruined my JT33 3-jaw chuck at this point, so am looking for a new one.

This is why I would look at tapping specific tooling. Taps are hardened and gripping one with a 3 jaw chuck 1) won't grip as well as a drill bit with a softer shank and 2) when it does slip, will ruin your chuck.

You obviously need a chuck for everything else so by all means get one, but be careful not to make the same mistake.

the native 2MT collet chuck would be the most precise and the JT33 mounted one would be a compromise.

You definitely want the chuck to have a 2MT shank.

 

[Mesozoic]

The chuck you posted earlier appears to be one of the only options for a 2MT-ER32 chuck. I believe Accusize packages this collet with a set of 11 collets as well, so that might be a good option. I also found that Haas has a set of ER32 tap collets on sale currently: https://www.haascnc.com/haas-toolin...RUpL82m2MkC86FJdrMKvB4uxzLvh1d_Xn93#gsc.tab=0

 

[Jlanciani]

I routinely power tap up to 5/8” with a Jacobs Superchuck.

I’d try getting a ball bearing chuck before spending a bunch of money on tapping specific tooling.

Unfortunately Jacobs never made a super chuck with a JT33 mount.

 

[dr_clyde]

Unfortunately Jacobs never made a super chuck with a JT33 mount.

I didn't know that. That's unfortunate.

I thought the OP's drill press had a MT2 spindle? You can easily get a MT2 taper adapter to whatever is needed.

 

[Mesozoic]

I bought an MT2-ER32 collet chuck and a couple sets of collets from Haas as they're currently on sale.

 

[Mesozoic]

The new MT2-ER32 collet chuck does not have a tang installed on its end, but has a 3/8-16 threaded hole for one. Is it necessary to install a tang? I suppose it would make it challenging to remove the chuck once installed without one. Otherwise, it's just more mass and a potential misaligned appendage if it's required.

 

[CallumRD1]

The tang is just to aid removal. It's not a required component.

 

[GeoBruin]

The tang is just to aid removal. It's not a required component.

The tang can also prevent the taper from twisting in the quill but that's only true if your quill has a tang slot.

 

[Mesozoic]

Quill does indeed have a tang slot.

 

[CallumRD1]

The tang can also prevent the taper from twisting in the quill but that's only true if your quill has a tang slot.

A properly seated taper can hold many times the force required to shear off a tang. In fact, with a large twist drill, you can shear off the tang remarkably easily if your taper is bad and not holding. Sure, the tang can be used as a crutch if you have a chewed up taper that doesn't make good contact anymore, but that's not how the system was designed to operate.

 

[Mesozoic]

So should I invest in a screw-in tang or leave it out? The downside is if I decide to reinstall a 3-jaw chuck in place of the collet chuck down the road. Not sure how I'd get the non-tanged arbor out.

 

[GeoBruin]

So should I invest in a screw-in tang or leave it out? The downside is if I decide to reinstall a 3-jaw chuck in place of the collet chuck down the road. Not sure how I'd get the non-tanged arbor out.

You will definitely want to make sure you can get the chuck back out, but you don't necessarily need a tang specifically. Just use a 3/8" socket head cap screw or similar so that there's something for the drift to push on to get the chuck out.

 

[William Payne]

What size taps? What kind of holes. Taps can be effectively held in chucks just like a drill if tapping through holes. Blind holes are much riskier.

But You can get away with not clamping on the square drive. Though there will always be the risk of spinning the taps.

If your taps spin as soon as they touch the hole they are likely blunt.

I should clarify though that we mostly used gun taps

 

[timgunn1962]

FIT THE ****** TANG.

Your chances of getting the arbor out without it it are four-fifths of bog all and you really don't want to go there.

I once gave away a Taiwanese drill press because it had a tangless 2MT arbor with keyless chuck stuck firmly in the quill. I'd put it in without thinking when I had a very small (0.55mm, .022") rush drilling job to do and the keyed chuck originally fitted to the drill press wouldn't grip small enough.

A bit later, I needed to fit a holder for Weldon-shank annular cutters and, after a couple of weeks faffing about and failing dismally to get the arbor out of the Taiwanese one, picked up an old-school British-made Kerry Super-8 drill press with a backgear for low speed range. Lowest speed is about 80 rpm, where the Taiwanese ones was 190 rpm.

A few years on, I'm happy with how things worked out, but it's not a mistake I'll be making again.

 

[Mesozoic]

Yeah, I ordered a tang last night. I did try to fit a 3/8-16 cap screw, but the protrusion of the bolt head was excessive and wouldn't allow the Morse taper to seat properly. I realized that it would be a major PITA to remove the shank once installed without one. I also picked up a Morse taper cleaning bit at the same time.

I believe the majority of my holes are through holes into aluminum, often NTP tap sizes, so the square portion of a 1/4" NPT tap fits into a 3/4" tap collet nicely. I'm not planning to tap in one operation, but perhaps 3-4mm at a time, taking advantage of the machine's "auto-reverse @ depth" feature. The machine doesn't have the horsepower to cut large threads like that in one shot.

 

[danielbuck]

I've seen morse taper tap chucks sold, basically it's a collet. So you'd need one size for every tap diameter you have, but if you're doing alot of tapping it would be worth the investment and effort I suppose.

 

[Beerhippie]

Yeah, I ordered a tang last night. I did try to fit a 3/8-16 cap screw, but the protrusion of the bolt head was excessive and wouldn't allow the Morse taper to seat properly. I realized that it would be a major PITA to remove the shank once installed without one. I also picked up a Morse taper cleaning bit at the same time.

I believe the majority of my holes are through holes into aluminum, often NTP tap sizes, so the square portion of a 1/4" NPT tap fits into a 3/4" tap collet nicely. I'm not planning to tap in one operation, but perhaps 3-4mm at a time, taking advantage of the machine's "auto-reverse @ depth" feature. The machine doesn't have the horsepower to cut large threads like that in one shot.

To make threading FNPT A LOT easier, get a set of reamers for the size threads you'll be making. You can thank me later.

 

[Mesozoic]

I bought a tang screw for the MT2 taper shank integrated into the collet chuck, but it seems to require some machining in order to fit properly. Last night we turned the outside diameter of the tang screw down to slightly less than the Morse taper at the top. That worked out well, but now the tang itself doesn't have the correct slope to clear the slot at the top of the quill... might be a job for the die grinder now.

 

[ching0n]

I bought these off aliexpress:


as an aside and on-topic. I saw a gentleman on youtube use a chuck on his drill press that was quick release (similar to what you would find on an impact driver). It was holding a typical drill bit if I recall. Anyone know what those are called?
edit: I think it was one of these; looks like it's 4 jaw so should work w/taps:

 

[txvwnut]

Anyone know what those are called?

That'd be a Wahlstrom automatic chuck.

 

[ching0n]

That'd be a Wahlstrom automatic chuck.

yeah, went googling and found the video above.