Upgrading from Craftsman Tools.

[scott4]

Work: Generally automotive. Spanning anything from rebuilding a suspension, working on the rear end, to a simple oil change.
Frequency: Weekends.
Tools currently owned: Basic Craftsman 155 piece box, with the crappy raised panel ratchets replaced with some SK ratchets, and some Craftsman low profile ratchets. Assortment of raised panel wrenches. Flex head gearwrench ratcheting wrenches. PI split beam Torque wrenches 1/2 and 3/8. Various odds and ends tools like oil filter wrenches, spark plug removal, crescent, vice grips, clamps, etc.

USA only. My only gearwrench purchase (flex head) still sticks in me.

I'm on the look-out for a used air compressor, but I already own craftsman air sockets in SAE and Metric, and an IR air ratchet (purchased on sale).

I like the new design on the sockets I've seen on some SK tools where the load is placed away from the corner of the fastener. This is really handy, and I think getting a proper set in 1/2 inch is my gut feeling. I dont like how, when repetitively removing certain bolts like brake caliper bolts, that fastener heads start to get rounded. I've had to replace a few that were on their way out.

I've been looking at
http://www.tooltopia.com/sk-hand-tool-4147-6.aspx
http://www.toolsource.com/inch-drive-metricsae-socket-49pc-p-121890.html

Wrights website is a little difficult to navigate.

Edit: Just for posterity, relevant threads:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11046
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66152
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=487808&postcount=63

 

[earlthegoat2]

If you think you are going to upgrading a great deal from CMan to SK I think you may need to rethink your definition of upgrading.

I do think SK is a tad better than CMan and I do think CMan is going down the drain but if you want to spend similar money for a similar product and call it upgrading then this question confuses me.

CMan's design puts the pressure away from the corners of the socket too. At least on modern sockets.

How old are your Craftsman tools? If they are quite old then maybe SK would be more of a viable upgrade.

 

[SMKS]

CMan's design puts the pressure away from the corners of the socket too. At least on modern sockets.

+1

SK sockets are pretty nice, though. Advance Auto Parts now sells SK tools. Ordering them from the website and using one of Advance's discount codes will be the best price you'll find on SK tools. They'll be brand new and from an authorized distributor, too.

 

[scott4]

Ok. Maybe I go to Sears and get a nice set of new 1/2 inch sockets.

 

[Jim C.]

Sorry to hear that.... It sounds like you do similar jobs to some that I do around my house/garage/shop. I've been using Craftsman mechanics hand tools for years and have been very satisfied with them. Mine are mostly from the early 1980s. They've held up, usually earned their keep, and have gotten the job done. All were made in the USA. Hope you find what you need without spending a fortune.

Jim C.

 

[scott4]

Sorry to hear that.... It sounds like you do similar jobs to some that I do around my house/garage/shop. I've been using Craftsman mechanics hand tools for years and have been very satisfied with them. Mine are mostly from the early 1980s. They've held up, usually earned their keep, and have gotten the job done. All were made in the USA. Hope you find what you need without spending a fortune.

Jim C.

I usually like to support them, considering the service they provide for the weekend DIY guy. Where else are you going to get a "X" on a Sunday when you need it?

I've just had a set of "aw ****" moments on fastner repetitive damage, and was thinking some of the tool truck brands could help out. I'm looking at Sears' website, and they do have the corner cutaways.

Glad to hear it.

 

[nehog]

Most of my sockets are either Craftsman or SK... I have always been an SK fan so I'm a bit biased however. I do have some Snap-on stuff, but generally I get the same warm fuzzies with better Craftsman or my SK tools.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Next question:

Do you have 1/2 sockets now from Craftsman or are you looking to get your first set?

If this is the case then either CMan or SK will be fine. It really is up to personal preference and cost/value.

I just dont think SK is the answer if you are looking to "upgrade" from Craftsman.

 

[SMKS]

I just dont think SK is the answer if you are looking to "upgrade" from Craftsman.

I don't agree. I think SK tools are better than Craftsman. Are they necessary for a weekend warrior? Well, that's up to the weekend warrior.


Also, SK has made a commitment to staying USA made. Sears has definitely not made a similar commitment with Craftsman.

 

[earlthegoat2]

If you had a full set of 1/2 drive Craftsman sockets would you be compelled to buy a similar set of SKs?

 

[scott4]

Next question:

Do you have 1/2 sockets now from Craftsman or are you looking to get your first set?

If this is the case then either CMan or SK will be fine. It really is up to personal preference and cost/value.

I just dont think SK is the answer if you are looking to "upgrade" from Craftsman.

I have an incomplete set, and a hand-me-down box of large 1/2 inch drive of misc. manufacturers. The best ones in there are old Craftsmans.
Generally, I have what I need regarding size.

 

[earlthegoat2]

OK, then. If you want a matching set I can understand that. If you want to try something different then SK is a great choice. Like I said before, I think SK is a little nicer than Craftsman.

 

[scott4]

Are they necessary for a weekend warrior? Well, that's up to the weekend warrior.

Will it better keep the integrity of my fastner heads?

I am suprised, I've always considered S&K to be one of the "better" tools. My small amount of that stuff is nice, though I'm not fixated on it. I am fixated on USA made, so Proto, Wright, Armstrong, Cornwell, etc, are also to be considered.

 

[earlthegoat2]

SK is nice because they are a good tool that you can get at stores on Sunday even if you have an Advance Auto around. I dont think they are nice as truck brands but I like tools to be available at a moments notice for warranty purposes. And they dont totally break the bank like truck brands do.

Like right now, I am looking for a longer pattern combination wrench set in metric. Though I am trying to find some of the older style CMan Pros if I cannot I will go directly to SK. 150 give or take for a nice tool set.

 

[scott4]

OK, then. If you want a matching set I can understand that. If you want to try something different then SK is a great choice. Like I said before, I think SK is a little nicer than Craftsman.

Actually, I really like: USA Made + Value.

Generally, this said Craftsman. However, I've been quite disappointed on how, after finally buying their set of flex wratchets, happy I didn't get the non US Gearwrench ones, then turning over the package to see "Taiwan" on the Craftsmans. Their low end ratchets are also frighteningly sloppy. I dislike the non US route theyre taking.

The straw that broke the camels back was my recent brake caliper bolt that, after removing it (admittedly many times), I needed to replace it, because it was starting to round off.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Craftsman is going the way of foreign manufacturing unfortunately. I fear the day when I, a long time Craftsman fan, have to go to replace a wrench or a socket and I get a Taiwanese made socket or wrench in return.

It is already happening, as you point out. The thing that really gets me though is that they move manufacturing overseas so they can make the tools at (presumedly) the same price point and they do meet that price point when the tools are priced in store. Yet you can plainly see the quality of the tool has gone down. I dont see why they cannot sell the same tool for the same price if they supposedly moved production overseas to save money on manufacturing costs. I would not be so against foreign production if they could meet this one simple point.

I would rather they keep production over here in the US and RAISE the price of the tools. This is route SK took and I am proud of them for it.

 

[scott4]

Craftsman is going the way of foreign manufacturing unfortunately. I fear the day when I, a long time Craftsman fan, have to go to replace a wrench or a socket and I get a Taiwanese made socket or wrench in return.

It is already happening, as you point out. The thing that really gets me though is that they move manufacturing overseas so they can make the tools at (presumedly) the same price point and they do meet that price point when the tools are priced in store. Yet you can plainly see the quality of the tool has gone down. I dont see why they cannot sell the same tool for the same price if they supposedly moved production overseas to save money on manufacturing costs. I would not be so against foreign production if they could meet this one simple point.

I would rather they keep production over here in the US and RAISE the price of the tools. This is route SK took and I am proud of them for it.

Well, I am going to support the US. I am infuriated over this process. I'm just glad to see like minded people. I've done through some real hassle trying hard to keep it "Made in the USA." I have stories, but this is off topic.

I'm ok with paying a premium and doing with less, saving more money to buy USA. Thats one point (partially) on Craftsman.

Now, do the nice truck brands really fit on the fastener better to prevent damage to the bolt? I certainly cant afford them. I'm really in the price range I linked to above. I see this as an investment of money (albeit small). Are there any other suggestions?

 

[Fedwrench]

Skip the Armstrong set. Although the 60 tooth Armstrong Maxx ratchet and knurled extensions are nice, the sockets themselves are merely rebadged Craftsman versions down to the double detent cutout on the female square drive end.
Actually, I think you would be better off buying a couple of rails of Craftsman sockets. Warranty would be easier than SK or Armstrong (unless you have a local dealer) and the quality is fine considering they're made in the Armstrong Plant.
If you really want to upgrade, look at Proto or a used truck brand set. Why take a baby step in upgrading by going to SK? Take a leap or stick with a solid performer at a great price which is what Cratsman offers in sockets.

 

[scott4]

If you really want to upgrade, look at Proto

Ok. Looking.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VXWE4A/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Skin]

~

I like the new design on the sockets I've seen on some SK tools where the load is placed away from the corner of the fastener.

essentially all sockets are designed like this today.

That said, Craftsman isnt what it use to be and i dont believe their 1/2" stuff is much of a bargain unless you get one of their larger sets. The design of Cman sockets are fine, but the plating seems to be getting worse and worse. I have some from ~10 years ago that are holding up fine, and some i just purchased a year ago that are not so fine. Whats essentially happening is the plating is chipping away in tiny peices. Its noticed most readily on the extension ends first, the sockets came shortly there after. This coupled with the price and i think you'd be better off buying something else. For ~$250 you have plenty of options, including truck brands. For about $100 you could buy a 12-24 shallow set of pretty much any truck brand you want. A deep set would take a bit more work but i dont think $100-$150 would be too difficult.

example, heres a nice looking SO shallow set that was just listed.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Snap-1-2-Drive-...496?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1e138308

 

[scott4]

Re: ~

essentially all sockets are designed like this today.

That said, Craftsman isnt what it use to be and i dont believe their 1/2" stuff is much of a bargain unless you get one of their larger sets. The design of Cman sockets are fine, but the plating seems to be getting worse and worse. I have some from ~10 years ago that are holding up fine, and some i just purchased a year ago that are not so fine. Whats essentially happening is the plating is chipping away in tiny peices. Its esspecially apparent on extensions. This coupled with the price and i think you'd be better off buying something else. For ~$250 you have plenty of options, including truck brands.

Do you have a "this is a good idea" option? I'll spend more, frankly, for tools that Ill get to pass on after I pass on. Ultimately, there's a value that's measured in time, as well.

 

[Spyder994]

I would rather they keep production over here in the US and RAISE the price of the tools. This is route SK took and I am proud of them for it.

Agreed. I would be perfectly happy paying a bit more of a premium for Craftsman stuff if they kept production here and quality wasn't going down the drain.

My two most recent US built Craftsman tool purchases were a major disappointment.

1) Non-Pro Craftsman Screwdriver set: The smallest straight slot has what almost appears to be a notch in the tip straight out of the package. I don't care that much, as this is a "beater" screwdriver set that I bought for really cheap.

2) 3/8" Allen Socket Set: The 7mm and 8mm pieces didn't have the bit set straight. They are leaning to one side. This really bothers me and I plan on taking the set back for exchange next time I am in town.

OP, SK is definitely a step up from Craftsman, but it's not that big of a step up. I have a handful of SK branded tools including ratchets and sockets, and have been very happy with them. For the weekend warrior, they are probably the best combination of quality and value.

 

[scott4]

For the weekend warrior, they are probably the best combination of quality and value.

Thanks for that.

 

[Singlecut]

You did the right thing by getting a giant CMAN set and upgrading as needed. Another smart move in upgrading the ratchets.
As far as sockets go, I use exclusively CMAN for the sole reason that I am a home wrencher like you and if I ever broke one all it costs me is a trip to Sears.
If I was a shop tech my choice would be different.

But since you are looking to get an air compressor and go pneumatic I would look into these: Duo Sockets
I have never had any experience with them but they look promising. Grey Pneumatic also has high praise here. The fact that they are thin enough to use in place of a chrome socket looks like it'll help you kill two birds with one stone.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

Will it better keep the integrity of my fastner heads?

I am suprised, I've always considered S&K to be one of the "better" tools. My small amount of that stuff is nice, though I'm not fixated on it. I am fixated on USA made, so Proto, Wright, Armstrong, Cornwell, etc, are also to be considered.

From my experience, SK is superior to all of the alternatives you listed. Proto has been steadily going downhill in quality for several years now, right along with Stanley. I've broken more Proto sockets this week (3) than I've broken SK in over 20 years (2). Wright is geared more toward the industrial user, Armstrong and Craftsman are pretty much identical, and in most places you'd have better luck finding Jimmy Hoffa than you would a Cornwell dealer.

Go with what you like, and call it good. SK has been VERY good to me over the years, moreso than any other manufacturer.

 

[wafrederick]

Sears will not warranty Craftsman under pro use.I was told of one case,instructor I had at an automotive college went through this when he was working a shop.Went into Sears with his uniform on getting broken tools replaced and told him not covered under pro use.The Craftsman breaker bars,I won't take back to sears to get replaced if the drive head breaks.Found out the drive head is the same as the Matco breaker bar by my Matco dealer.My Matco dealer even said that he will replace the drive head on the Craftsman breaker bar under warranty.

 

[greybeard]

http://www.wrighttool.com/online_catalog.asp
I think this is where you want to go.

 

[Skin]

http://www.wrighttool.com/online_catalog.asp
I think this is where you want to go.

i dont believe he does. Correct me if i'm wrong but wright doesnt sell 1/2" drive 6pt metric sockets in chrome.

 

[hammergodthor]

1 more vote for Grey Pneumatic. I know they aren't USA, but they're good quality and a good value. Craftsman impact sockets are pretty good too, but the wall thickness is "quite ample" and varies from size to size.

 

[treasureseeker]

I had a lot of recent SK(before the change in owners) and don’t feel it is much better than Craftsman. If I had to do it over I would have went with Wright, and for ratchets probably Facom.

 

[scott4]

This is quite a spread of opinion. This decision may be more difficult than I thought.

 

[diesel research]

If you had a full set of 1/2 drive Craftsman sockets would you be compelled to buy a similar set of SKs?

I had a 254pc set (purchased about 7 years ago) that "went missing", I was not compelled to replace it with similar stuff, and purchased new-retail SK (about 3 years ago) to replace it. Don't read that as "cman must have worked well for those 1st 4 years" Quite to the contrary, I simply used employer provided tools for all but about 1 year of those first 4 years.

Before that, I had kmart benchtop tools. Truth be told, I would buy them in a heart beat over the cman set, even at similar prices. I can't think of just one spectacular failure with cman set, a few cracked sockets, a slipping ratchet, a few spreading open ends, and a few poor fitting wrenches. Think it was more of the feel of them, just had that feel of india fleamarket goods.

SK wasn't ALL roses though! I hated the employer-provided famous knurled ratchets each of us had. They always slipped. My later palm control acquisition proved slightly more reliable if I kept an eye on the cap screw. The standard wrenches were a bit on the short end, but proved extremely reliable. Thoroughly enjoyed the sockets, including the spline variants.

______________________

I am loving this new armstrong maxx stuff! I don't buy into the relabeled sockets, but nice ratchets, and they have nice ratchet wrenches.

The higher end cman ratchets fit into this category but don't have same variety of lengths and flex capabilities.

_____________________

My only recent experience with proto was a brand new impact adapter that sheered immediately. I still want to believe they are great quality. No, I take that back, I use my proto blackhawk wrenches everyday and they excel. The metric case even had "mac" markings on it, but these are taiwanese in origin.

___________________________

I haven't warrantied anything in atleast 4 years. A few reasons. I am more selective with feel and appearance of tools when possible. When a ratchet is binding on the shelf, it isn't likely to get better with age. Same with flimsy handles or poor appearing screw driver blades, etc.

I have pretty much stopped using screw drivers, so warranty on them is no longer an issue.

I have minimized my use/abuse of ratchets by implementing box end wrenches, impacts, impactors, and/or breaker bars when possible.

I minimize use of chrome sockets by trying to use impact sockets everywhere I can, even with hand tools. Including non-6pt and specialty types. Most of them are sunex or snap on. A few "floaters" from cman or kobalt, but you can tell these deform a lot easier and corrode easier.

My hex keys are bondhus and never let me down.

When "feel testing" the cman red handle prybars and the snappys, I just knew which ones belonged in my hand. One of the tips is getting dull from frequent hammering. Will dress it up when I have a finer grinding wheel available.

I pretty much avoid any USA breaker bars, whether it is snappy/cman/matco. Not a fan of the "forked" style. Both the snappy and cman have broken one too many times. Warranty problems solved. Stop buying them. Can really lean into that 24" autozone special w/o having to worry if another handle fork ear will snap off or a pin fall out.

***Most importantly, after years of breaking fasteners, wrenches, sockets, and spreading wrenches, I have developed somewhat of a feel for that "metal yielding" feel before total destruction. I learn which tools can be "leaned on" and what they feel like before giving out. That allows me to take a different approach before things get too wild. Also learned to visually identify many potential troublesome fasteners before even starting, and apply copious heat/vibration/lubrication from the start.

Other times I take a more destructive approach and take a step back to analyze the whole situation. I may find it's not even worth my time to attempt to gently remove a fastener, and just cut it/the part it's attached to from the get go. That might be a saw, chisel/air chisel, grinder, pliers, or fire axe. Example, removing a u bolt. I am not even going to waste my time and effort trying to save it. Chop-chop! Same could be said for a leaking hose. certain wheel cylinders, brake springs, or various other parts that are failure/wear prone and will be replaced anyways.

_____________________

With my modified approach to tool usage, I probably could survive with standard cman, but none of that would change the price vs feel...

 

[pipsters]

Here are some wright sockets, they do not appear to offer the cutout on the walls of the socket to grip the sides of the bolt or nut. This was posted by a member here

*************************************

My only beef with my older 2007 Craftsman sockets so far is some of the chrome starting to flake off the sockets and extensions. I have a barely used G2D dated (2011) 299 piece socket set that I am considering parting out on eBay and buying the new SK 1/4" and 3/8" 6 point sets. My G2 dated (2007-ish) Cman sockets and extensions seem to have a different chrome on them, however, so it's possible they have fixed the flaking issue, they do feel a little more durable.

I do not however think they offer the SK Best Seller sets in 1/2" drive, and honestly the Craftsman 1/2" drive stuff when bought in a set is incredibly cheap. That is why I bought that large set to begin with, it was almost cheaper to buy the 299 piece set than the 1/2" sets individually. When I get home I will post some pics of the Cman 1/2" stuff.

I do own some "old" Pre-Ideal SK flarenut crows foot and the chrome on them is good, almost too bright, doesn't seem predisposed to flaking like the Cman stuff.

Anything in 1/2" is going to be really expensive.

 

[scott4]

If I'm not seeing things, it looks like there's a slight bend and a slight cutout on the corners.

 

[diesel research]

I rarely find 1/2" chrome necessary. Occasionally, but on a piece by piece basis.

 

[pipsters]

If I'm not seeing things, it looks like there's a slight bend and a slight cutout on the corners.

Not compared to a true cutout that exists on todays tools. I'm thinking either those were NOS Wright or the Wright chrome is geared toward industrial use and has no need for it. It would be used mostly indoors in a limited rust environment.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

Not compared to a true cutout that exists on todays tools. I'm thinking either those were NOS Wright or the Wright chrome is geared toward industrial use and has no need for it. It would be used mostly indoors in a limited rust environment.

Bingo! Wright is primarily geared toward millwrights and fixed plant types. Even still, I hardly ever see their stuff. Proto, SK and Craftsman seem to rule the roost around here, with a smattering of Williams, Blackhawk and Klein thrown in for good measure.

 

[Boiler]

I'd take SK chrome over Cman any day. If I had craftsman sockets, I probably wouldn't replace them with SK, but if I was buying new I would buy SK (and did).

I wouldn't hesitate to replace a set of Cman raised panel wrenches with some SK superkromes though. They are just so much nicer IMO. Same is true for snap on or matco, probably wright, certain Bonney sets, etc. I just hate raised panel wrenches. Yeah they get the job done but feel like a cold turd.

Relief in the corners or bow to the sides will give you the right grip on fastener sides. The radius in the corners really is best to relieve stress & avoid cracking.

 

[slipjointed]

Not compared to a true cutout that exists on todays tools. I'm thinking either those were NOS Wright or the Wright chrome is geared toward industrial use and has no need for it. It would be used mostly indoors in a limited rust environment.

Those sockets are OLD. They look nothing like today's Wright sockets. They don't represent what someone would get if they were to purchase from a Wright distributor that moves enough stock to not have things laying around for decades.

I've ordered Wright from several different resellers and every socket I've gotten has been broached just like this:





IMO Wright tools are THE best tool for the money, bar none. They are 100% USA made, superb quality, great chrome, built like tanks, and cost 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of Snap-on from authorized resellers. If someone is trying to go for professional quality tools on a Craftsman budget, then Wright certainly should be on the list.

 

[BackTracker]

Those sockets are OLD. They look nothing like today's Wright sockets. They don't represent what someone would get if they were to purchase from a Wright distributor that moves enough stock to not have things laying around for decades.

I've ordered Wright from several different resellers and every socket I've gotten has been broached just like this:

)

My wrights look NOTHING like this.