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Upgrading from Craftsman Tools.

plierwire

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Aug 13, 2011
Messages
54
I have broken one craftsman tool, and I have many. I broke a 1/2 to 3/8 adapter trying to turn a lug nut on an old F250 that musta been put on by King Kong. I had a 4 foot cheater pipe on an 18" breaker bar. The adapter broke clean off. Obviously, I was using the wrong tool for the job :lol_hitti So I take the blame. I didn't even try to warranty it.
 
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scott4

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Aug 5, 2011
Messages
387
Thanks for the tips above. I appreciate it.

I'll give you a tip that has helped some of my knee issues. I have a steel mesh milk crate that I got 35-40 years ago that I almost always sit on it when working low on anything, especially taping side moldongs and front and rear lights,grills, etc.. If I need lower, I sit on an old 1" thick wood creeper I have. Saves a lot of sore muscles....trust me.

Low cost and effective. Makes sense.

They're plastic now. Wonder how that measures up.
 

tricker

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Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
21
I asked Ty from Wright about those and I got a pm from him last monday stating that there will be an official release of the metric Wright Grip wrenches in the next couple of weeks. He will announce it on the forum when it happens. Crossing fingers.



they are out there now?

I ordered the 952 last week and got 7-22(minus 20) metric full polish wright grip
 

Skin

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Feb 24, 2010
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11,713
Location
Boston
I think you'd be surprised how "tight" the Cman stuff is, it is pretty dang good. The raised panel wrenches, when mic'd, are better than the USA Cman Pro wrenches that *everyone*, and I do mean *everyone* (except me) rave about

I reach for the Cman Pro wrench first because its longer [and more comfortable] i couldnt care less if its +/- a few thousandths. Sometimes you just need the leverage/extra length for access/ease of the job. 8/10 i'm using the box end anyway. Sometimes i'm just happy if the damn bolt head doesnt disintegrate.

I'm partial to USA made + value. I'm also looking at this as a long term investment. Lifetime and hand-me-down type of investment.

Then to reititerate stay away from new Cman sockets and extensions. If your tools really get worked on you will find the finish failing very fast.
 
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BerninicaCO3

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Jul 6, 2007
Messages
164
not a socket... but I bought a brand new cman telescoping magnet 2 weeks ago.
Chrome is already flaking! And no-- it's just been sitting in my toolbox drawer. No water, and with airconditioning in the shop, not even much humidity...
 

diesel research

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Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
5,440
Location
gulf coast, TEXAS
I think the other turn off was a lack of variety in some areas and excess fluff in other areas. Look at any cman set. Why does it ALWAYS have a variety of missing sizes? Like deep vs short or 6pt vs 12pt.

The ratchets are not anything to write home about. Sure they might get the job done....sometimes. If anyone claims they couldn't notice the difference, you have to ask what exactly else have they tried? Not simply a brand, but more specifically a model. If they said snap on for example, was it some old beat up f830 from 20 years ago? a new f80?

Current screw drivers ****.

Breaker bars are a no-no.

If you are only using your wrenches as a backup wrench they might suffice. The larger ones also seem a bit more tolerable as well. So what happens when it is MANDATORY to use a wrench? Even worse, what if you HAVE to use the open end? They aren't so great. I wrote about such a situation last week. Having no long pattern or "mechanics length" only make the situation worse.

_______________________________

There are a lot of guys here trying to justify their purchases on BOTH sides. I don't even like snap on wrenches, so don't throw me into that "gotta have top tier category" I have complained about their and cmans impact sockets both. SK standard wrenches are a bit short. Their long beams make up for that. Both are loads more comfortable when bearing down on them.

I cannot comment on most of the cman ratchet wrenches. The basic set had cheap wobbly gears and course teeth. The higher end set was a bit better quality, and I am thinking 60teeth instead of 72? Doesn't matter, as far as I know, all that stuff might be discontinued?

They had what appears to be a decent stubby set, but it also seems to have been discontinued.

Their extensions haven't ever given me drama. Then again, nor has harbor freight or reputable USA mfgs either.

Don't throw warranty out there, because it is always so subjective and a variety of outcomes turnout. Then again, the best warranty is the one you don't have to use...
 

ajchien

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Sep 3, 2010
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2,649
Location
Los Angeles, stuck on the 60 freeway.
Im a weekender like the OP. Im confused as to what the original question was.

Are you looking for a set of 1/2 drive sockets that you don't have? And you have a problem with rounding bolts?

If you dont have any 1/2 drive sockets, go ahead with the SK 6 points.
If you have 1/2 drive sockets in 12 point, but dont have 6 point, go ahead with the SK 6 points.
If you already have the CM 1/2 drive in 6 point, then I guess I'd say, keep the CM and spend your money elsewhere and buy a different tool - as a fellow weekender with no air, a variety of big long breaker bars has been immensely helpful.
 
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scott4

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Aug 5, 2011
Messages
387
Im a weekender like the OP. Im confused as to what the original question was.

Are you looking for a set of 1/2 drive sockets that you don't have? And you have a problem with rounding bolts?

If you dont have any 1/2 drive sockets, go ahead with the SK 6 points.
If you have 1/2 drive sockets in 12 point, but dont have 6 point, go ahead with the SK 6 points.
If you already have the CM 1/2 drive in 6 point, then I guess I'd say, keep the CM and spend your money elsewhere and buy a different tool - as a fellow weekender with no air, a variety of big long breaker bars has been immensely helpful.

First of all, thanks to everyone who has responded to what seems to be "another Cman thread." I linked up some of (what I thought were) the more informative ones above. All replies were very helpful.

ajchien:

This thread is a little long, so my replies to this are buried in the thread. Basically, some of the fasteners I deal with have seen repetitive removal and installation. Specifically, I replaced these bolts because I didn't like how the fastener heads looked. Its not rounding as much as wear. Seeing some of the fancier tools, I was wondering if the "better" brands would limit this problem. The SK seems a little different inside the socket, so I brought them up. Do they grip better? Is their claim on "SureGrip" something real that is better on the fasteners? Someone above brought up how fasteners arent built to close tolerances, which is a solid point. Pipster (?) brought up Cman tolerances as good. However, do the "better" brands actually work better? Do they last longer for a guy like me (not professional). No, I'm not tied to that brand. USA made is key, though.

I have an incomplete 1/2 inch set. If I was going to round that out, I was thinking about upgrading to something "better," and that lead me to a series of questions on quality, fastner fit, and comparing the past, present, and possible future of Cman tools. You are investing in a tool line, and the availability, move to foreign sources (don't want), and possible quality is something I was considering in this decision.

Frankly, I was a little suprised about some of the focus on chrome in the other threads. I'm not sure what to think about all that. I do like the corrosion resistance, and no sharp chrome peel edges to cut my hands (as one poster in another thread discussed,) but I've never seen it on my older Cmans. I've never factored that into my decision, and I still don't know what to make of it. My Cman sockets have never been an issue with flaking. Breakage never seems to be a concern, either. I really like the 6 point Cman RP wrenches, and my ratchets are fine (some SK, some slim Cman), so this was just limited to sockets I was going to buy.

I do like the 1/2 inch and use it when I can. Feels good to me, so I wanted to broaden that tool range. I like 6 points and their grip on the fastener.

People on this board seem experienced and are quick to give you their opinion - which is much appreciated. Before I went and spend some more of my hard earned money, I wanted to ask about this. Reading the information on here steered me away from the Cman torque wrench, which was a big help. I need to be smart with my money, and I'm going to be at this for a while (knock on wood), so I was weighing the pros/cons of moving "up" from Cman.

Considering the previous threads, I should amend my equation from USA made + value - to - USA made + Value + Functional. I don't care if the chrome is dark or has an imperfection. Sharp, slicey, flakey edges are a no-no, but I really just want the job done and done right, and I'd like the tools to last (corrosion resistance and durability) and hold my fasteners well. Thats what "better" means to me.

Added:
I've never seen a non abused Cman socket fail (abused generally seems to be, from a non-pro standpoint, a chrome socket in an impact gun or wrong drive socket for the job), but if the new ones are in anyway less durable, I'd like to know that too. Who whats something to break when theyre "getting on it." Cmans don't seem to do this on me, and, with a proper quality tool used correctly, I don't expect them too. If theyre getting worse in this regard, I want to know about it. Thats obviously a factor, but I seriously doubt that its a concern here. I will pay $200 more, easily if that ever is the case. My hands are valuable to me.
 
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pipsters

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Sep 1, 2010
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Looking up the Sears 1/2" set (very similar, has two smaller sockets that the SK set doesn't have but the SK has the 23 and 24mm shallow sockets), you're looking at around $130 (after the Sears2011 coupon) + tax. Tooltopia has the SK 1/2" set for $270, no tax. So really you're talking about $130, give or take. If you use the set for 30 years, you're talking under $5 year.

Think about that, most people spend less time making investment decisions that can cost them thousands of dollars per year.

In other words, it's been my experience that within reason, buy the one you want, and be happy.

Here is a picture of a circa 2007 Cman socket, you can clearly see they have the cutouts for gripping the side of the bolts. The new sockets are the same.

Next to it is the SK made crows foot, you can see how "bright" the chrome is. Next on the very right side are two new Cman sockets. I don't have an SK sockets to compare to.

attachment.php


I have only used one of the SK made pieces, and very little of my newer Cman sockets, so I can talk about long term use. If Skin says his newer Cman sockets are flaking with use, I would believe him, from what I've seen he doesn't have a reason to be out to get Cman, in fact he helped me purchase my sets of things with lots of coupons. Saved me a lot of money.

That being said, I bought that large Cman 299 piece set because it included all the big sockets that would cost in the hundreds to buy separately. That was the reason I got it, had I not needed/wanted them I might've got something else. It was the most cost effective way to buy large sockets made in the USA.

Whatever you buy, enjoy it, I'm sure they will serve you well for a long time to come. The jury is still out on the SK chrome (I'm sure socket integrity is fine) but if history is any indicator it will be better than Cman. That might be worth the extra $130 over your lifetime.
 

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ajchien

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Sep 3, 2010
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Location
Los Angeles, stuck on the 60 freeway.
We're in a similar boat. Except I think Ive gone and nearly built up my collection of auto tools already.

For me, Craftsman is the "minimum" level of quality I have my threshold on. I do have HF/chinese tools. Even as a weekender, I have "broken" my share of chinese/HF tools. I can't exactly remember ... but I counted it once ... Ive had to warranty/return roughly15% of my HF tools, 2% of my craftsman tools, and 0% of any industrial/truck brand.

I don't know if industrial or truck brands are that much better that craftsman in longevity or fastener wear. I do think that does depend a lot on what material the fastener was made with. In my experience, I have rounded off bolts using cheaper chinese 12 point sockets. Becuase of that I really try to stay with 6 point stuff (maybe only with wrenches, I use 12 point for access). Common bolts that do go on and off, I do change, albeit rarely (maybe 2 oil drain bolts in 270k miles, and a trans fluid bolt that I want to change during the next drain/fill)

Craftsman is certainly good value for me, especially when bought in sets. If you don't mind flea markets, and mixed brands - thats another route - except that metric are bit harder to come by.

I personally dont really care how the chrome looks. If it's pristine, and I use it, it wont look pristine in a year. I think it's more important just to have the tools in different variants. i.e. 6 point, 12 point, metric, sae, drive size, deep/shallow.

Therefore in summary, I build my tool collection off of flea markets and estate sales - and I look for industrial or truck name tools at those places. If I can't find it there, I need to decide if it's a common/important/safety reason for the tool. If so, I buy craftsman, and in a set if possible. If it's a rarely used tool, or something I consider disposable, I buy HF. As for SK or Wright or any other USA brand, I'm all for it. I have bits and pieces of them all over the place, all old and used from flea markets and estate sales, Im very happy to have them. If you buy them new, great!
 
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DRhodes

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Nov 9, 2010
Messages
805
Location
Ohio
Scott,

Is this set from the new Ideal owned SK or the old stock? If this is the new stuff they have some serious quality control issues. I'm very optimistic about the new SK but if that is what they are producing then I would stay away.
 
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slipjointed

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May 31, 2011
Messages
665
Meh, should've listened to me and gone with Wright. I ended up buying SK sockets before I bought my Wright stuff, and ended up with the same quality stuff (actually, garbage is more fitting than stuff) you did. Lost a good bit in shipping and time before I just went with the sure bet.

edit: To clarify, I got stuff that was supposedly the new SK, and it's pretty darned obvious that they don't have their quality under control yet. I may consider buying SK in the future, but I need to know that I can trust the tools. If it's bad enough that their resellers are publicly announcing that SK has admitted to being unsatisfied with the quality of the tools they are seeing come out of their production lines, that is a clear warning to stay away.

I too was tempted to go the cheap route and get the SK "all-in-one" socket set for half the price of the individual Wright sets that were of known quality, and I too learned the hard way. If you do decide to give them another shot, I wish you luck.

I was extremely dissapointed when I got my SK stuff, because I had been hyped up by all kinds of people on this board to expect great quality, and the quality was FAR worse than the Craftsman I also had been replacing. Poor fitment on the wrenches, bad chrome with cracking, peeling and pitting, rough broaching in the sockets, etc.

I had to pay a bit more for the Wright stuff, but at least I know exactly what I'm getting. FYI you mentioned the SK SureGrip, Wright has the same thing with a different name:

2011-08-14_19-57-40_916 (1024x577).jpg
 

ibedayank

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Feb 2, 2011
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Columbia TN
If you think you are going to upgrading a great deal from CMan to SK I think you may need to rethink your definition of upgrading.

I do think SK is a tad better than CMan and I do think CMan is going down the drain but if you want to spend similar money for a similar product and call it upgrading then this question confuses me.

CMan's design puts the pressure away from the corners of the socket too. At least on modern sockets.

How old are your Craftsman tools? If they are quite old then maybe SK would be more of a viable upgrade.

I think you better check the current prices of new sk
 
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scott4

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Aug 5, 2011
Messages
387
Will it better keep the integrity of my fastner heads?

I am suprised, I've always considered S&K to be one of the "better" tools. My small amount of that stuff is nice, though I'm not fixated on it. I am fixated on USA made, so Proto, Wright, Armstrong, Cornwell, etc, are also to be considered.

From my experience, SK is superior to all of the alternatives you listed. Proto has been steadily going downhill in quality for several years now, right along with Stanley. I've broken more Proto sockets this week (3) than I've broken SK in over 20 years (2). Wright is geared more toward the industrial user, Armstrong and Craftsman are pretty much identical, and in most places you'd have better luck finding Jimmy Hoffa than you would a Cornwell dealer.

Go with what you like, and call it good. SK has been VERY good to me over the years, moreso than any other manufacturer.

Considering the current options, is Armstrong and Proto off the table?

Wright has this strange tendency to not sell a complete standard/metric set in a given drive.

Theres also this
Craftsman 311-piece Socket Accessory Set with Hex Bit Sockets

Theres a few more pieces in there from the 299 piece setup
 

slipjointed

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Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
665

Well, hopefully that is the truth. These socket sets are an amazing bargain for what you get. I hope that you can get a set you're satisfied with, although I feel Wright is much nicer, it'll also cost you about twice what the SK sets cost.

For some reason though, SK individual sets are more expensive than Wright? The all of a sudden when you bundle them together into a blow molded case, they reduce in price by 60%? I don't get it. :confused:
 
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