Upgrading Mechanic

[Zewnten]

Hello garage Journal,
I've used this forum a lot when considering tool purchases but despite all my searching I haven't found a thread pertaining to my question. I am a heavy diesel tech and for the last year I have been the Harbor Freight 300 piece mechanics set for sockets, allied wrench sets, and Carlyle (napa) drivers. I am looking to upgrade, especially my wrenches so that's what I will use as an example. I don't have an overly large tool budget and where I live and work the tool truck guys are non existent; small rural shop. I keep reading good reviews on Tekton customer service but they don't make long pattern wrenches anymore, I read mixed reviews on Gearwrench wrenches (non ratcheting), and I can't find many long term review's on Carlyle and they are priced twice as high as comparable sets from Tekton or Gearwrench. Ordering stuff piece meal from various companies is fine with me but I need a good/simple warranty. Sorry for the long post but it's been going round and round in my head.

 

[CJM8515]

sunex

 

[SuitorsGarage]

where I live and work the tool truck guys are non existent; small rural shop.

I need a good/simple warranty.

I have had excellent luck with the quality of carlyle tools. I also do a large amount of business with our local Napa so any warranty is within an hour or two if needed. Napa can cut you deals if you ask. I never pay retail for tools from them.

 

[Zewnten]

Thanks for the Sunex suggestion, some how I completely overlooked them. I don't ever seem to see reviews or threads on them, do they fly under the radar?

 

[Zewnten]

My Napa doesn't carry much selection of Carlyle so everything is 5 business days out. :-(, whiche is why I was considering the more Internet based tool brands, but I do like Carlyle screwdrivers

 

[earlthegoat2]

Do have the budget for a non-truck brand but high quality wrench like Wright or Proto?

The Carlyle tools are pretty good. I think the wrenches are made by Danaher/Apex who have a long history of making a quality wrench that wont leave you stranded.

 

[97nismo]

I really like gearwrench

 

[sberry]

Buy what you want but don't pay extra for a warranty. 1st, its highly unlikely you need it and why pay 20$ to warrant something can be replaced for 10?

 

[Zewnten]

You are right, even with the 'low' end tools I've been using I haven't needed the warranty (except screwdrivers and prybars, break those things like nothing else) but I would like to have a fair bit of assurance that when I'm leaning my weight on my wrench or ratchet to loosen something that hasn't been touched in 15 years I won't end up on my face. And maybe I am placing too much emphasis on the warranty as a measure of the tools quality. Any suggestions on tools that don't get much notice but do the job day after day?

 

[jakemac]

Any suggestions on tools that don't get much notice but do the job day after day?

Apparently, you already have them. If you aren't breaking them, they're getting the job done.

As for upgrading, keep an eye on the used market for deals.
If you need long reach wrenches, I like the old Williams Superrench's. Look for the ones with the underline logo with the three lines on each side, from the TRW era. They are slightly longer than the newer ones made by SnapOn. In the 2"+ sizes, the difference can be up to 2" longer, or more.

As for warranty, save those purchases for the tools that you do break. Find a tool supply or auto supply near you that honors lifetime warranty and stick with that brand. As mentioned, Napa's brands are decent, and if your local shop doesn't have what you need on hand, they can get it from the warehouse on the next order.

My uncle had his gas station in a small isolated town in the northwoods for almost 50yrs. His brother owned the NAPA across the street for almost as long. Those NAPA tools built the house, raised 3 kids, paid for college for all 3 of them, helped to raise 6 grandkids, and semi-supported his retirement until he couldn't work anymore. Nothing wrong with using what you got if it gets the job done.

 

[Ohmthis]

OP, welcome! Give us a little more info. Are you looking to find a brand and stick with that (doesn't sound like it, but gotta ask)? Do you have a budget? USA (probably preferred, but not required?)? What stores are close to you where you can buy tools? I can't help you with the sunex wrenches. But I do have some Gearwrench ratcheting wrenches. I like them a lot and I haven't had any break yet (I've had them for 12 years or so). They have had a semi pro career. These are in my home box, but get quite the workout. Also look at eBay, I've found several great deals. If your tools are working for you, I see no reason to change. Now, if they are showing major wear, or are not comfortable to use, then I can understand.

 

[Tallpilot]

The Tekton combination wrenches are a little shorter than the Gearwrench long patterns but longer than a standard combo. I find them long enough for most tasks. They also make them up to 2in and 50mm which is perhaps important for a heavy tech; I don't know.

If they aren't long enough I grab my Gearwrench XL double box ends. The older non-spline style are relatively cheap at the moment and are made in Taiwan instead of China.

Perhaps you want on the spline drive bandwagon...I did not so I am happy with my stuff. The 6 point ratcheting stubbies from Tekton are excellent if you ever need those; again I don't know what a heavy tech really needs.

 

[SuperXero]

Thanks for the Sunex suggestion, some how I completely overlooked them. I don't ever seem to see reviews or threads on them, do they fly under the radar?

Do yourself a favor and do not get sunex wrenches. They make excellent impact sockets but their wrenches are not very good.

 

[ihateminimumwage]

Sunex for impact sockets, SK for chrome sockets, Wright for combo wrenches, used Snap-on Dual 80s for flex ratchets, Proto Duratek for screwdrivers, Mayhew for prybars, VIM for bit sockets.

Gearwrench (non-ratcheting) combos are good for the money. I know a couple of guys that switched from SK and MAC to them professionally and have no complaints.

 

[WittHay]

You almost need two sets of wrenches, a Napa Carlyle, Gearwrench type for engine work and airline fittings.

Another beater set like a Craftsman raised panel type for on the backside of impacts or for tough hydraulic fittings when you have to hammer on the wrench. Your Allied set would probably work

You might wan't to look at DeWalt based on a Proto wrench but made in Taiwan. Beefier than GearWrench which is made in China
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FAE6F5U/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[sberry]

HF wrenches have an outstanding warranty. It doesn't tell anything about how good it is but that it will be replaced. I did a litte experiment when I was jammed up out ibn the field, it took a 12 inch adjustable to leverage a 9'16 MIT wrench to break it, finally broke the beam in half. Probably took 10 times the power a man could generate with hand use.
I put a 3 ft cheater on a 3/4 Sears wrench a while back and was absolutely sure the wrench would let go but it didn't. Must have been well over 400# torque on it, the bolts came with a big snap. Did it 4 times.

 

[sberry]

For long wrenches I like old DBE Sears, absolutely brutally tough.

 

[franzdom]

Another vote for Wright here, they are long and very very nice, not cheap but not too (tool truck) expensive.

 

[kythri]

Another vote for Wright here, they are long and very very nice, not cheap but not too (tool truck) expensive.

Which Wright wrenches are considered long?

 

[bcradio]

Toptul would be my first choice.

 

[VinceG]

Buy used snap-on they will warranty them they will even send you the shipping label.

 

[kythri]

Buy used snap-on they will warranty them they will even send you the shipping label.

Officially, no, they will not.

 

[Firebrick43]

Sunex for impact sockets, SK for chrome sockets, Wright for combo wrenches, used Snap-on Dual 80s for flex ratchets, Proto Duratek for screwdrivers, Mayhew for prybars, VIM for bit sockets.

.

Great advise, only thing I would changes is the screwdrivers. The USA Williams are identical to the older square hard handled snap ons for a great price.

 

[ssdave]

For long wrenches I like old DBE Sears, absolutely brutally tough.

I really liked those old long dbe from Craftsman. But, I had a problem with them bending, and that was without a cheater bar. They would twist as they bent, and no longer worked well at all, as they would then slip off the nut. The replacements I got on warranty were just plain junk, not like the old ones at all.

I replaced them with old long pattern Proto, and have had no problems with them, nor with the Snap-on XV set I have. But, those were a lot more money than the Craftsman.

On the OP's question? I'd go with Carlyle, the ones I've had have been quite good quality for an import tool. I think they're nearly as good as the old USA made NAPA tools.

 

[sberry]

Buy used snap-on they will warranty them they will even send you the shipping label.

Why buy it if it needs warranty?

 

[VinceG]

Officially, no, they will not.

I have never had a issue. done it several time when the shop I worked on had no Snap-on . I have bought about Half of my snap-on tools used and never had a issue.

 

[VinceG]

Why buy it if it needs warranty?

Just saying they will warranty them if you break them. I never broke a Snap-On wrench.

 

[Zewnten]

Thanks for all the suggestions. The reason I'm looking to 'upgrade' is my tools are starting to feel sloppy, I borrowed a friends set of snap on 3/8's sockets and the socket was such a good fit the ratchet could hang off the bolt head. I work in a lot of greasy confined areas and having to use both arms to hold the socket on doesn't always happen. The other reason is most of the time there is no room to get a 1/2 ratchet and socket so I have to use a 3/8 ratchet with large sockets and a good bit of force. I don't have tool company preference but if I am going to spend the money I don't want to have to replace it due to wear or breaking for hopefully a couple of years at least. I know a lot of times you spend four ties as much to get 25% bump in quality/power/what-have-you (if that much increase). So I'm looking to put my money towards a quality purchase rather than end up wasting it on an experiment with cheap tools. And not to start a debate but it seems the general opinion is that sunex is a step above harbor freight but probably not by a lot, carlyle is a good sized jump, and wright is the best without breaking the bank? (aka snap on?) As for all the buying used recommendations it seems a lot of used tools being sold are very worn and I'm back where I started. Anyways sorry again for another long post and thanks again for the help.

 

[Gmonkee]

What brands are easily found where you are.

Look among them first.

Buying used is a crapshoot but sometimes good brands with ugly owner marks come cheaper than 2nd tier brands. If you don't mind Floyd had scrawled his name on both sides.
Many pass on them even in unworn condition.

I seem to collect them.

 

[JohnDeere1]

Buy used check pawn shops and flea markets even ebay you will be surprised what you find dirt cheap if you take your time. If your in a hurry I would go Carlyle farm Napa it is the closest to truck tools you will find but price is crazy another would be your best bet on a budget Gearwrench you can't beat like $20 for a 1/4 socket set $25 for 3/8 $30 for 1/2 you can find them at your local Advance auto parts so warranty is super easy. I upgraded buying used and spent maybe 6k on my hoard and it would be worth 3× as much if I were to sell if you want tool truck tools buy used if not it really isn't worth it even ebay is crazy high sometimes.

 

[buffalobill]

I wouldn't put sunex down, I doubt Carlyle is much of a difference, if at all. Tekton is the company that fits your description.

Fwiw, I have a set of sk 3/8 sockets, the full metric and standard, deep and shallow. It's 8 years old. The frequent use sockets are sloppy, and I've busted a 14 and 12 in the last year. If you use them, they will wear, regardless of brand.

 

[HomeTheaterMan]

I've got a few Gearwrench non ratcheting wrenches and quite a few Gearwrench ratchet wrenches. I do like them and they are great for home use. However, they are no where near the quality of my Snap On wrenches and you can tell if you're deal with a rusty fastener. They will slip where the SO will sometimes bite into the fastener and remove it. Wrenches and screwdrivers are two items that I honestly feel like it's worth paying the extra for SO. As said above though, I'd look for used ones. You can often find used SO wrenches for less than half of the new price and sometimes way less than that.

I also like S&K wrenches, but I rarely see them used and I can usually buy used SO wrenches for quite a bit cheaper than new S&K.

I also love my SO Instinct Screwdrivers. I know that other companies like PB Swiss, Wera, Williams (the same as the old SO hard handle screwdrivers) are all great, but the SO handle is a perfect fit for my hand and allows me to get the leverage I often need on tight screws. Not to mention the tips are great and will often remove partially stripped screws that other drivers just slip on. I also have Gearwrench screwdrivers and while they are superior to my Craftsman's, they are no where near the quality of the SO. I also prefer the Instincts quite a bit over my old hard handled SO drivers I have.

Now for the rest, SO is usually good, but there are other brands that are also excellent. For chrome sockets I have SO sockets, Gearwrench, old Craftsman USA sockets, and have used S&K a fair amount. All of these are great and I honestly can't see much of a difference between any of them. I use my Craftsman USA sockets or Gearwrench 90% of the time just because I don't have to worry about them if I lose one or two. The pawn shop I shop at has a bin full for $.50 each. I really expected to fall in love with the SO sockets, but I just don't see a difference. I don't have a problem with the Craftsman or Gearwrench slipping in, fitting loose, or breaking. They just work well. Anytime I've had them slip, so do the SO set. S&K is also very good quality.


For impact sockets, there are also several great brands. I don't have a SO set, so I can't comment on them, but I've never had a problem with my Craftsman USA made set. I suspect there are a lot of other great ones. I even have a cheap Stanley set that works well.

For bit sockets, I like my Snap On and my USA Craftsman's about equally. The problem with Craftsman here is that they do wear out and the new Chinese made ones are complete ****. I've heard great things about VIM as well. I'd stay away from the Lisle as they are complete junk, but I'm sure there are a lot of great options that I haven't used as well.

For ratchets, I love the Snap On Dual 80's. They work well, I've abused mine and it still keeps on working great. I do like the feel of some of my Gearwrenches slightly more, but after a lot of hard use, I've had problems with them binding up and the ratcheting mechanism reversing on me while using them. I do like that their head is thinner so I can fit them in tight spaces, but I just don't think they are up to task of everyday professional use. For a DIYer they are great.


For pliers, I like Knipex, Klien, Channel Lock, and my USA made Craftsmans. All of them have been good to me. I've had other cheaper brands that were junk, but you can't go wrong with any of those. I don't see any reason to spend the extra money on SO pliers as they just aren't that great.

For prybars I absolutely love my Craftsman Professional prybars. They are the same as the Mayhew Dominator. I do like the SO prybars as well, but to me they just aren't worth the premium over the Craftsman Pro's which will work great for everyday use.

All in all, if I was to do it over again, I'd definitely go with Snap On for screwdrivers, ratchets, and wrenches as I said. Maybe even bit sockets. For the rest I think there are quite a few other brands that are great, but can be had a bit cheaper.

 

[HomeTheaterMan]

I have never had a issue. done it several time when the shop I worked on had no Snap-on . I have bought about Half of my snap-on tools used and never had a issue.

Snap On's warranty does only apply to the original purchaser. Some drivers will replace it for you, while others won't help you.

If you call their customer service number they will usually replace them for you, but when I've told them they were used, they have told me that the warranty doesn't still apply. They then offered to replace them just once for me to help me out. They've never asked me for a receipt, although I've heard of them asking for a proof of purchase from people that warranty a lot.

So I think you honestly will probably be able to warranty them if something happens, but they do have an out if they ever decide that they don't want to replace something that you bought used.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Sunex makes a fine wrench, no need to listen to nay-sayers. As someone who owns about 15 sets of wrenches, various brands, and uses them professionally:


If you need those stupid big sized wrenches, you have sunex, and $$$$ brands. I have $120 in a 8-32 inclusive Sunex wrench set. $120, for this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0096PRWQU/?tag=atomicindus08-20




The official "cons" of the sunex are: No "flank drive" open end, some labels/etching slightly crooked (mainly the biggest sizes).

They're longer than "standard" length wrenches, and work just fine. If we want to talk about ripping the steel off the head of the bolt levels of grip, Wright or Snap on/Williams, end of story. The Sunex do just fine, compared to wrenches within their category. Gearwrench, craftsman, etc are no better no worse. If you want top level grip, pick up a set of Wright Grip wrenches in your most critical size range. The BEST thing about sunex (and why I'd save your HF wrenches), is that you don't cry when you heat it with a torch and take a grinder to it to make that custom wrench.


If you NEED to use an open end, and can't use a flare-nut crowfoot on a ratchet, heat it up if it doesn't want to move. I've seen it dozens of times, guys rounding fasteners into cones "flank-driving" it up. No open end will move all fasteners, no matter the hype of the gripping teeth, or what someone on the internet says about doing alignments in Pittsburgh never using a torch.


If you like Carlyle, their wrenches are nice, but the teeth are a tad aggressive for soft fittings, don't use them on brake lines. I have them as my main SAE set, with the rarely used bigger sizes via sunex.




Get the Gearwrench XL for hard to reach stuff or when you wanna crank on something: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DICFCO/?tag=atomicindus08-20



The flex head spline versions are meh to me. Flex head plus spline means no way to force the head over that crusty fastener. Mountain flex spline wrenches taught me that.


Sunex stubbies work good, although the open end heads are a tad big. Wright grip or Williams (USA, ie cheaper snap on) for the daily use size range, Sunex as duplicate back ups and the BIG BIG BIG sizes. Snap on or SK for flare nut wrenches. Snappy grabs just a bit harder, but rounds the hell out of the fastener when it finally slips. Angle wrenches Snap-on ONLY, for those glorious 30/60 angles. Most angle wrenches are standard 15*, plus a 60*. So one end of your wrench is a duplicate of every other open end you have. Keep some cheapies around for bending/customizing. My sunex flare nut crowfoot sets are great, bite really well. Ignore ratcheting open end crows feet, they're rarely useful. I'm still a tad salty about that purchase.

I just wanted to believe they wouldn't ****.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Thanks for all the suggestions. The reason I'm looking to 'upgrade' is my tools are starting to feel sloppy, I borrowed a friends set of snap on 3/8's sockets and the socket was such a good fit the ratchet could hang off the bolt head. I work in a lot of greasy confined areas and having to use both arms to hold the socket on doesn't always happen. The other reason is most of the time there is no room to get a 1/2 ratchet and socket so I have to use a 3/8 ratchet with large sockets and a good bit of force. I don't have tool company preference but if I am going to spend the money I don't want to have to replace it due to wear or breaking for hopefully a couple of years at least. I know a lot of times you spend four ties as much to get 25% bump in quality/power/what-have-you (if that much increase). So I'm looking to put my money towards a quality purchase rather than end up wasting it on an experiment with cheap tools. And not to start a debate but it seems the general opinion is that sunex is a step above harbor freight but probably not by a lot, carlyle is a good sized jump, and wright is the best without breaking the bank? (aka snap on?) As for all the buying used recommendations it seems a lot of used tools being sold are very worn and I'm back where I started. Anyways sorry again for another long post and thanks again for the help.

Look at Williams sockets from toolsdelivered.com. Same quality as snap on (if you buy the USA made stuff), very fair pricing.

If you want quality, and reasonable cost, SK is another good offer. Their chrome universal sockets are considered by most to be second only to snapon. I know I like my sets. SK makes a damn fine wobble extension as well.



Buy lots of USA made sockets/extensions from Williams, it's usually a more matte finish on the extensions, and they're a bit thicker than snap-on, but they're strong and cheap. To me, it's better to have multiple of everything, so price is a huge factor when buying 5-6 feet worth of 1/4 drive extensions.



I know your situation with Warranty. Tool trucks sell on it, but when no one at the shop owes them money, then you have to call the hot-line number. Price shop, have back ups of critical stuff. That way when the warranty isn't there, you can still get the job done.

 

[ihateminimumwage]

Great advise, only thing I would changes is the screwdrivers. The USA Williams are identical to the older square hard handled snap ons for a great price.

The Williams drivers are really damn good. I switched over to the Protos in the last year, and they are hands down my favorite hard handled drivers.

Fwiw, I have a set of sk 3/8 sockets, the full metric and standard, deep and shallow. It's 8 years old. The frequent use sockets are sloppy, and I've busted a 14 and 12 in the last year. If you use them, they will wear, regardless of brand.

Have you emailed SK about replacing those sockets? Their current warranty is excellent to deal with, and it would be interesting to see how the new ones they'd send compare to the pre-Ideal era SKs you have. I don't think 8 years ago was a high point for the brand.

 

[sberry]

I have the same tools a good long time, some have been worked in a pool and have more service than 1 man could give them,,,, why don't I have these same problems? 40 yrs and the cheap cman stuff still isn't worn out, even 25 yrs on cheap China combo wrenches in an abusive world and they still work. The only place we damaged a couple was hitting impacts on repetitious jobs. Last problem we had with sockets was a ding a ling hammering them on.

 

[buffalobill]

The Williams drivers are really damn good. I switched over to the Protos in the last year, and they are hands down my favorite hard handled drivers.


Have you emailed SK about replacing those sockets? Their current warranty is excellent to deal with, and it would be interesting to see how the new ones they'd send compare to the pre-Ideal era SKs you have. I don't think 8 years ago was a high point for the brand.

Bought a new one. Living in the land of salt, I'd gotten my life out of it, plenty of abuse had taken it's toll.

 

[buffalobill]

The Williams drivers are really damn good. I switched over to the Protos in the last year, and they are hands down my favorite hard handled drivers.


Have you emailed SK about replacing those sockets? Their current warranty is excellent to deal with, and it would be interesting to see how the new ones they'd send compare to the pre-Ideal era SKs you have. I don't think 8 years ago was a high point for the brand.

I have the same tools a good long time, some have been worked in a pool and have more service than 1 man could give them,,,, why don't I have these same problems? 40 yrs and the cheap cman stuff still isn't worn out, even 25 yrs on cheap China combo wrenches in an abusive world and they still work. The only place we damaged a couple was hitting impacts on repetitious jobs. Last problem we had with sockets was a ding a ling hammering them on.

You must be lucky. On the steering box I'm working on, the 5/8 Allen head bolt has rotted to almost 11/16. If a big *** hammer and chisel hadn't saved the day, I'd be in the same boat, hammering an oversize bit socket in to remove it.

 

[sberry]

I am sure it didn't occur to him to use an impact socket instead of a thinwall chrome socket. My point was I don't notice the tools wearing out. We have some that been used a lot. I spose we could mic them but they seem to work as well as they always did.
I did add a new 3/4 deep impact a while back as I was 1 short anyway and it does seem a pinch tighter than the old ones but it isn't much and in all fairness the old have been well hammered doing wheel work and buildings. I don't exactly recall now, we may have broke one but I remember buying a new one from Lowes.
As I mention wrenches will stretch against impacts if you hit them enough. I found a couple 9/16 loose and tossed them out and it took me a minute to realize they were ones we loosened hundreds of bolts in clamps with. We ran them off over some rusty threads, held the wrench with a heavy glove on and rattled them.
I got a few we really brutalized and they are still super, a small Olympia I still carry in my road set comes to mind. 3/8 and I have hit it with a 20oz nail hammer repeatedly on brake bleeders. TSC carried them and they are tuff little buggers.