Upgrading Pushmatic Breaker Panel?

[Tlag]

View media item 105879The Gould ITE Pushmatic Load Center was installed in April of 1982 when the house was built.
I think it is 200 Amp, but I'm not sure.
It still has some space to add some more breakers.

I just finished framing a room in the basement and thought I would pull a new circuit there. I found some used breakers locally, since they are long since discontinued.

But now I'm having second thoughts. Maybe I should just have an electrician come in and replace the panel. There is a lot of negative stuff out there on the the discontinued Pushmatics, but I'm not sure if those where ones from the the 1960, or what generations are at risk.

So... If I get a new panel installed. What should I look for? Are the QO's the way to go?

A 40amp AC and a 30amp compressor are the only 220 loads I have. But I have thought about putting in another 220 in the garage to support a stick welder just for fun.

 

[BigGarage]

The Gould ITE Pushmatic Load Center was installed in April of 1982 when the house was built.
I think it is 200 Amp, but I'm not sure.
It still has some space to add some more breakers.

I just finished framing a room in the basement and thought I would pull a new circuit there. I found some used breakers locally, since they are long since discontinued.

But now I'm having second thoughts. Maybe I should just have an electrician come in and replace the panel. There is a lot of negative stuff out there on the the discontinued Pushmatics, but I'm not sure if those where ones from the the 1960, or what generations are at risk.

So... If I get a new panel installed. What should I look for? Are the QO's the way to go?

A 40amp AC and a 30amp compressor are the only 220 loads I have. But I have thought about putting in another 220 in the garage to support a stick welder just for fun.

I don't know if I had the same Pushmatic breakers as you do but my panel was in horrible condition due to moisture in the basement. I had it replaced in July 2019 and it would've only been $1500 except I spent more for a whole-house surge suppressor.

I do recall the electricians telling me something about the Pushmatics sometimes having problems but I don't recall what they said.

They are available brand new also. I had bought a few including a 60 amp that I was going to use for a subpanel.

If you replace your panel with a modern panel you should know that your old Pushmatics do have value and the electricians will take them and sell them.

Here are a few pics of my old panel. I'll never regret tossing it.

Dennis

 

[PWilks]

I think QO is probably the way to go. I’m no electrician but if you go squareD, definitely go QO over homeline. My brother wires spec homes and says a lot of the time they install homeline and it’s just an inferior product.

I would definitely spend money on an oversized panel. As big as will fit. In the end You’ll roughly pay the same in labor despite the size of panel (because the same amount of circuits are being re wired to the new panel) and won’t have issues with space in the future

 

[Bert_]

They aren't a bad panel. They are getting up there in age but breakers are pretty available used. I have a big box of them. I don't use them that often though they are pretty reliable.

If you where doing a major remodel and pulling many new circuits then I would replace it. If you're just adding one or two things I would leave it alone.

 

[alfredeneuman]

My brother wires spec homes and says a lot of the time they install homeline and it’s just an inferior product.

Does your brother know the internal parts are exactly the same as the QO, without the Visible Trip indicator?

 

[Jim greengo]

I think QO is probably the way to go. I’m no electrician but if you go squareD, definitely go QO over homeline. My brother wires spec homes and says a lot of the time they install homeline and it’s just an inferior product.

I would definitely spend money on an oversized panel. As big as will fit. In the end You’ll roughly pay the same in labor despite the size of panel (because the same amount of circuits are being re wired to the new panel) and won’t have issues with space in the future

Nothing wrong with homeline panels,I'll still take one over a CH panel anyday no matter what the rest of you guys say!
Let the battle begin!

 

[Jim greengo]

Does your brother know the internal parts are exactly the same as the QO, without the Visible Trip indicator?

Exactly.

 

[BigGarage]

View media item 105879The Gould ITE Pushmatic Load Center was installed in April of 1982 when the house was built.
I think it is 200 Amp, but I'm not sure.
It still has some space to add some more breakers.

I just finished framing a room in the basement and thought I would pull a new circuit there. I found some used breakers locally, since they are long since discontinued.

But now I'm having second thoughts. Maybe I should just have an electrician come in and replace the panel. There is a lot of negative stuff out there on the the discontinued Pushmatics, but I'm not sure if those where ones from the the 1960, or what generations are at risk.

So... If I get a new panel installed. What should I look for? Are the QO's the way to go?

A 40amp AC and a 30amp compressor are the only 220 loads I have. But I have thought about putting in another 220 in the garage to support a stick welder just for fun.

Now that you've included a pic of your panel I would suggest leaving it there and adding the breakers for the circuits you add. I would take the front cover off and inspect it though just to be certain of the condition but it sure looks good.

As I wrote already, the breakers are available new. These are the ones I bought. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pushmati...fix=pushmatic,aps,226&ref=nb_sb_ss_ac-o-p_3_9

 

[Terry D]

Not that u would want to keep that panel, but they di sell brand new aftermarket breakers for that

Sent from my SM-G960U using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Norcal]

Not that u would want to keep that panel, but they di sell brand new aftermarket breakers for that

Sent from my SM-G960U using The Garage Journal mobile app

They are ChiCom UL classified breakers, Pushmatic were the only bolt on residential panels, personally I would use a copper bussed Siemens, or a Eaton CH, third choice would be QO.

 

[BD1]

It appears that the existing is mounted directly to the concrete.
I think a piece of plywood us normally mounted to concrete then panel fasten to wood.
Neighbors was mounted to concrete like yours and Electrican stated that's why panel so rusty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Terry D]

They are ChiCom UL classified breakers, Pushmatic were the only bolt on residential panels, personally I would use a copper bussed Siemens, or a Eaton CH, third choice would be QO.

I agree, i would personally replace the panel also.

Sent from my SM-G960U using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Nothing wrong with homeline panels,I'll still take one over a CH panel anyday no matter what the rest of you guys say!
Let the battle begin!

What?

Youd take an aluminum bussed homeline over a copper bussed CH?

There is no comparison here. The CH is far superior.

 

[Tlag]

I don't know if I had the same Pushmatic breakers as you do but my panel was in horrible condition due to moisture in the basement. I had it replaced in July 2019 and it would've only been $1500 except I spent more for a whole-house surge suppressor.

I do recall the electricians telling me something about the Pushmatics sometimes having problems but I don't recall what they said.

They are available brand new also. I had bought a few including a 60 amp that I was going to use for a subpanel.

If you replace your panel with a modern panel you should know that your old Pushmatics do have value and the electricians will take them and sell them.

Here are a few pics of my old panel. I'll never regret tossing it.

Dennis

Thanks Dennis,
Mine is not so bad as yours was.
It is mounted on plywood, just a little hard to see at the angle the photo is taken.
View media item 105884

 

[Tlag]

Now that I have the cover off.

It looks like there may be a couple breakers that aren't even used.

The tandem 15 at the bottom looks like only one side is wired.

And it looks like a couple of the singles above it aren't used either.

Hmmm. Am I reading that right?

View media item 105886

 

[BigGarage]

Now that I have the cover off.

It looks like there may be a couple breakers that aren't even used.

The tandem 15 at the bottom looks like only one side is wired.

And it looks like a couple of the singles above it aren't used either.

Hmmm. Am I reading that right?

View media item 105886

I think you are correct but I also see a couple of breakers that have 2 wires going to them. What are the capped-off wires at the bottom of the panel for? I'm guessing they're hot since they're capped off.

I wish my panel had looked as good as yours does, it would've saved me about $2000 with the permit, surge suppressor, and $1500 for the panel and labor.

Dennis

 

[jbwilkins]

Keep in mind, if you replace the panel it will probably have to be brought up to current code, arch fault breakers, gfcis, etc.

 

[Norcal]

Keep in mind, if you replace the panel it will probably have to be brought up to current code, arch fault breakers, gfcis, etc.

Arc fault breakers are rarely required on a panel change.

 

[Jim greengo]

What?

Youd take an aluminum bussed homeline over a copper bussed CH?

There is no comparison here. The CH is far superior.

Yes,I prefer the layout of the homeline panel interiors over the cutler hamner.
I've used the homelines since I went into business on my own in mid 90s,never had a problem with the busa bars in them.

 

[Tlag]

I think you are correct but I also see a couple of breakers that have 2 wires going to them. What are the capped-off wires at the bottom of the panel for? I'm guessing they're hot since they're capped off.

I wish my panel had looked as good as yours does, it would've saved me about $2000 with the permit, surge suppressor, and $1500 for the panel and labor.

Dennis

One of the double connections to a single breaker is for a doorbell transformer that is bolted to the bottom of the panel. That does not seem like a concern.

The other one controls 5 duplex wall receptacles, as far as I know. I'm going to have to disconnect each of the two wires one at a time to see if some receptacles are split between the two, or if one wire goes to something else.

Same with the capped wires, I'll have to see if I can figure out what is going on there.

Since it looks like I have some existing breakers, I think I'm going to put off the panel replacement.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful insight and input!!
This forum is great!

 

[nsula_country]

Nothing wrong with homeline panels,I'll still take one over a CH panel anyday no matter what the rest of you guys say!
Let the battle begin!

I'll bite.

Homeline breakers "are supposedly" the same internals as a QO. Makes sense from a manufacturing standpoint.

But bus bars are ALUMINUM.

CH with copper bus bars for me. Layout isn't bad.

CT

 

[rburke65]

I’ve installed a ton of Sq ads, but I always thought the CH were a quality breaker/panels.This was in the 80s.....

 

[sparky 1971]

Not that u would want to keep that panel, but they di sell brand new aftermarket breakers for that

Sent from my SM-G960U using The Garage Journal mobile app

It's been a few years since I bought one, but at one time Siemens was making Pushmatic replacement breakers. Maybe they don't anymore though. I have enough used Push breakers to supply an army.

 

[Terry D]

It's been a few years since I bought one, but at one time Siemens was making Pushmatic replacement breakers. Maybe they don't anymore though. I have enough used Push breakers to supply an army.

I know the feeling, I have crates of FPE, Zinsco, Pushmatics, etc. Don't even know why I save all that ****. Lol