Uponor Pex A Supplier?

[karoc]

Guys I was wondering if any good on line plumbing supply houses out there that sales Uponor piping? Big box stores don’t carry it, so thought that maybe plumber here could recommend an online supply house that has pipe and all fittings. I’m hoping to be able to rent tool that expands the ends for fittings. Any suggestions and thoughts on Pex A be most helpful

 

[Jackfre]

I get mine from Ferguson.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Bought my Pex-A from Supplyhouse.com

 

[dfiler2]

Looks like there is a supply house in Lufkin TX

Authorized Uponor distributors and retailers | Uponor

Wondering where to buy an Uponor product? Find our authorized distributors and retailer locations near you, or contact the Uponor technical support team.

www.uponor.com

Uponor makes a great product and they are a very good company, however, if I remember right you need to use their fittings. Maybe that has changed but in my opinion there is no big advantage in using their products over the PEX available online or from big box stores. I have sold millions of feet of oxygen barrier B PEX and have never seen a failure caused by the PEX itself.

 

[karoc]

Thanks guys that’s good information, what about fitting that is sold at big box stores?
Thanks for link I see there’s Colburns in Jasper also

 

[acer66]

Bought my Pex-A from Supplyhouse.com

I order from them for years and only had good experiences.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I ordered what I "thought" I needed from Supplyhouse and what I missed I picked up at Menards.

Bought the Milwaukee tool for expanding the pipe.

 

[housewolf]

Thanks guys that’s good information, what about fitting that is sold at big box stores?
Thanks for link I see there’s Colburns in Jasper also

I’ve never been to either of those and in fact rarely dealt with Coburns before I retired. I have dealt with them several times since retiring and all my experiences with them have been really good. I wished I’d used them more when I was working.

 

[reader2580]

Does it have to be Uponor, or just PEX-A for expansion? Home Depot sells PEX-A tubing and Supplyhouse.com is also a good place to buy PEX-A tubing.

 

[Rubberdown]

I bought everything from supplyhouse.Com to do several entire houses after the freeze. Easy Peasy cheezy and cheaper than local.

 

[captaindiode]

Another voter for supplyhouse.com I have used them on two rental properties and no problems with their service.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Does it have to be an online supplier? Looks like Coburn Supply in Jasper, TX is a nearby brick and mortar supplier. https://www.uponor.com/en-us/where-... USA&lat=31.2529155&lng=-93.7841503&radius=50

 

[karoc]

I notice that supplyhouse.com doesn’t carry PEX A I was told by plumber not to use B because it doesn’t expand as much as PEX A . Seems that Uponor is kinda in short supply so maybe HD or Lowe’s or other brands may be easier choice. Brick& Mortar stores I do believe in locate support, but I am out comfort zone when comes plumbing and PEX pipe and fittings. Which is one reason for checking in here first

 

[Kurt4440]

I notice that supplyhouse.com doesn’t carry PEX A I was told by plumber not to use B because it doesn’t expand as much as PEX A . Seems that Uponor is kinda in short supply so maybe HD or Lowe’s or other brands may be easier choice. Brick& Mortar stores I do believe in locate support, but I am out comfort zone when comes plumbing and PEX pipe and fittings. Which is one reason for checking in here first

In stock.
You will need an expansion tool as well. There is plenty of information on line about Pex A, and any specific questions we can help.

 

[DGersic]

If you have a Menards nearby, they carry Sioux Chief PEX B. You can expand or crimp it, both are supported. There is a ton of PEX info out there, most of it confusing, some contradictory. A vs. B is how the tube is made. Check the manufacturer specs for the supported attachment methods.

SupplyHouse is also great to deal with.

If you haven’t seen it, check out my re-pipe the house thread from January. I tried to include lots of useful details you may be able to use.

The Milwaukee expander tool rocks.

 

[Rubberdown]

I bought the Dewalt one from hilltop tool rental for very very reasonable. After the last couple freezes and completely repiping 3 houses I can say that the power ones are worth it.

 

[reader2580]

I notice that supplyhouse.com doesn’t carry PEX A I was told by plumber not to use B because it doesn’t expand as much as PEX A . Seems that Uponor is kinda in short supply so maybe HD or Lowe’s or other brands may be easier choice. Brick& Mortar stores I do believe in locate support, but I am out comfort zone when comes plumbing and PEX pipe and fittings. Which is one reason for checking in here first

They have a lot of PEX-A. Make sure you look under plumbing. If you choose the PEX tubing option from the front page that takes you to radiant PEX tubing.

 

[karoc]

If you have a Menards nearby, they carry Sioux Chief PEX B. You can expand or crimp it, both are supported. There is a ton of PEX info out there, most of it confusing, some contradictory. A vs. B is how the tube is made. Check the manufacturer specs for the supported attachment methods.

SupplyHouse is also great to deal with.

If you haven’t seen it, check out my re-pipe the house thread from January. I tried to include lots of useful details you may be able to use.

The Milwaukee expander tool rocks.

Fantastic and thanks will check it out.

 

[karoc]

I bought the Dewalt one from hilltop tool rental for very very reasonable. After the last couple freezes and completely repiping 3 houses I can say that the power ones are worth it.

Is Hilltop in Livingston?

 

[Rubberdown]

No it’s in Tomball. They sell online or you can call or go in. Really good prices for the most part.

 

[nmk_61802]

Fantastic and thanks will check it out.

My Menards also sells Pex-A. While Sioux-Chief says you can expand their B, I think I would stick with A if you have already settled on expansion as you connection.

 

[housewolf]

If you haven’t seen it, check out my re-pipe the house thread from January. I tried to include lots of useful details you may be able to use.

The Milwaukee expander tool rocks.

Yes, you absolutely should. I’ve been plumbing a very long time but have zero experience with pex. A significant portion of what I know about pex today came from that thread! The rest came from research (not experience). From what I’ve been able to ascertain DGersic did a first class job there on the pipe job and documenting the installation. Particularly the parts he used for supporting the pex.

 

[Dr_Pippin]

If you have a Menards nearby, they carry Sioux Chief PEX B. You can expand or crimp it, both are supported. There is a ton of PEX info out there, most of it confusing, some contradictory. A vs. B is how the tube is made. Check the manufacturer specs for the supported attachment methods.

SupplyHouse is also great to deal with.

If you haven’t seen it, check out my re-pipe the house thread from January. I tried to include lots of useful details you may be able to use.

The Milwaukee expander tool rocks.

After your experience with Sioux Chief Pex-B and expansion fittings, would you use it again if you had to re-do your project?

 

[Firebrick43]

After your experience with Sioux Chief Pex-B and expansion fittings, would you use it again if you had to re-do your project?

I dont know why sioux chief says that Pex-B can be used with expansion fittings, but its generally discouraged by the rest of the industry.

And menards has Pex A in natural color any ways? Why take a long term chance?

 

[Dr_Pippin]

I dont know why sioux chief says that Pex-B can be used with expansion fittings, but its generally discouraged by the rest of the industry.

And menards has Pex A in natural color any ways? Why take a long term chance?

I’ve spent literally half the day reading about Pex. This is for a radiant heating system in a 1900 sq ft garage slab, so I’ll need seven 300’ rolls. The Sioux Chief O2 barrier Pex-B is $120/roll while the Uponor O2 barrier Pex-A is $240/roll. Not a minuscule cost difference. Sioux Chief has the F1960 rating for their Pex-B, and they aren’t the only one with that rating - Zurn also has it for their Pex-B. If it was just Sioux Chief approving expansion fittings I’d likely agree with you, but with other big name companies also approving it-I’m inclined to believe them.

 

[Firebrick43]

I’ve spent literally half the day reading about Pex. This is for a radiant heating system in a 1900 sq ft garage slab, so I’ll need seven 300’ rolls. The Sioux Chief O2 barrier Pex-B is $120/roll while the Uponor O2 barrier Pex-A is $240/roll. Not a minuscule cost difference. Sioux Chief has the F1960 rating for their Pex-B, and they aren’t the only one with that rating - Zurn also has it for their Pex-B. If it was just Sioux Chief approving expansion fittings I’d likely agree with you, but with other big name companies also approving it-I’m inclined to believe them.

Zurn, the company with cheapened their fittings and had a huge class action lawsuit for failed pex systems in the tens of millions of dollars?

That Zurn?

Its your house. You will found out in 20 or 30 years.

Why so much tubing? Its generally considered that a pretty crappy insulated building can be heated hydronically with 1 foot of tubing (1/2" diameter)per square foot? Less with better insulation.

 

[Dr_Pippin]

Zurn, the company with cheapened their fittings and had a huge class action lawsuit for failed pex systems in the tens of millions of dollars?

That Zurn?

Its your house. You will found out in 20 or 30 years.

Why so much? Its generally considered that a pretty crappy insulated building can be heated hadronically with 1 foot of tubing per square foot? Less with better insulation.

I was not aware of Zurn’s class action lawsuit. I’m new to the Pex world, hence why I’ve spent so much time reading on it today. And of course there’s tons of misinformation to wade through, with hundreds of posts on various forums with most having no follow up from the original poster of what they chose or how it worked.

I’m working on the 1 lineal foot of Pex per square foot of garage slab floor. I sure don’t want to do 24” OC runs, which means I’m doing 12” OC - the same as my rebar.

 

[Firebrick43]

7 x 300' equals 2100 feet?

6 x 300' equals 1800 which is fine. You don't want any to be under benches/tool boxes/ lift post ect.

 

[Dr_Pippin]

7 x 300' equals 2100 feet?

6 x 300' equals 1800 which is fine. You don't want any to be under benches/tool boxes/ lift post ect.

I think my actual square footage is 1922 sq ft, just easier to refer to it as 1900.

Good point about the toolboxes. I’d considered that, but don’t have definitive locations picked out for them. And it would realistically only be a few feet worth of tubing saved anyway. Not to mention I was thinking it would end up making the Pex runs more convoluted with 90* bends to loop around the toolboxes than just running simple, straight lines right underneath the toolbox area. Not to mention if I ever re-arranged things later and ended up with a cold spot in my floor, I’d be cursing myself for not just running the pipe under the boxes.

I do have two 3’x3’ pads picked out for a 2-post lift, but that only drops the needed length by 6’ per pier pad, or 12’ total.

I’m also locating the manifolds and necessary control equipment, etc. in my basement, necessitating coring a hole through my foundation wall (it’s an attached garage). I was factoring in an extra 5’ of length on each end of each pipe to allow reaching the manifold. Call it 60’ if six loops or 70’ if seven loops.

A final consideration was running Pex at 6” OC for the outer most 2 loops around the perimeter of at least half the slab where my workshop area/lift will be just to fight the higher heat loss through the foundation wall.

1922+70 is darn near 2,000 sq.ft., plus the possible extra perimeter loop, and I really didn’t want to round down to 1800. My logic was that I’d rather take 10-15’ off the end of each length of Pex and end up with an extra loop with each being a bit shorter than have to pick a 150+ square foot region to not heat. Given all that information, do you agree with my plan for 7 loops?

 

[Firebrick43]

Even if you don't know exactly where tool boxes and benches are, there is little point to putting the tubing within 2' of the wall unless its a special window or something you sit at frequently. We normally put machines, racks, shelves, benches, ect against the wall, we don't normally stand there.

 

[Dr_Pippin]

Even if you don't know exactly where tool boxes and benches are, there is little point to putting the tubing within 2' of the wall unless its a special window or something you sit at frequently. We normally put machines, racks, shelves, benches, ect against the wall, we don't normally stand there.

Hmm. interesting point. I haven’t seen anyone before mention not heating the outermost part of the slab - I’ve only seen the reverse with a recommendation to do an extra loop at the periphery due to increased heat loss through the foundation wall/stem wall. I’ll ponder your suggestion and think about what I’d like to do in that regard. Right off the bat I worry having the closest loop 2’ from the periphery would make the outermost 3’ of the slab (the distance until the second loop) colder than I’d like. And as my workbenches are 2.5-3’ deep, I wouldn’t want that area colder.

Thanks for your input! You’ve got me re-considering a few things.

 

[Firebrick43]

Hmm. interesting point. I haven’t seen anyone before mention not heating the outermost part of the slab - I’ve only seen the reverse with a recommendation to do an extra loop at the periphery due to increased heat loss through the foundation wall/stem wall. I’ll ponder your suggestion and think about what I’d like to do in that regard. Right off the bat I worry having the closest loop 2’ from the periphery would make the outermost 3’ of the slab (the distance until the second loop) colder than I’d like. And as my workbenches are 2.5-3’ deep, I wouldn’t want that area colder.

Thanks for your input! You’ve got me re-considering a few things.

I cant feel a difference air temp wise. Comfort wise its more about the temp of your feet, and that is typically 3' from the wall where you feet are.

And it reduces heat loss sideways through the slab because of lower delta T in that area. Of course this assumes you have the bottom/side of the slab insulated like one should.

 

[Dr_Pippin]

I cant feel a difference air temp wise. Comfort wise its more about the temp of your feet, and that is typically 3' from the wall where you feet are.

And it reduces heat loss sideways through the slab because of lower delta T in that area. Of course this assumes you have the bottom/side of the slab insulated like one should.

Ah, Newton’s Law of Cooling! Great point about the lower temperature gradient at the slab periphery decreasing heat loss, hadn’t thought of that. And yes, I will have 2” of rigid foam underneath the slab and between the foundation wall and slab edge. I talked with the concrete contractor about beveling the top of the foam at the periphery, we’ll see if it happens that way.

 

[Firebrick43]

Even in my house I have the tubing about 2' away from the wall most places and 3' where the counters/fridge/dishwasher and such is. Even in front of the big picture window doesn't feel cold standing righ up to it.

Are you planning on heating to 50 ish in your garage?

Higher localized temps if you do a lot of bench work and less else where can be more comfortable as it has higher floor temps in those areas without overheating the air.

Even in the house part of ours, 67 degrees air temp is our thermostat set point feels much warmer than 72 degrees air temp in the original part of the house that is central air/heat.

 

[DGersic]

After your experience with Sioux Chief Pex-B and expansion fittings, would you use it again if you had to re-do your project?

Yes. It worked perfectly.

 

[DGersic]

I dont know why sioux chief says that Pex-B can be used with expansion fittings, but its generally discouraged by the rest of the industry.

And menards has Pex A in natural color any ways? Why take a long term chance?

A vs. B is how the tubing is made. The spec that matters is which joining systems they support, which could be expansion, crimp, or both.

 

[Firebrick43]

A vs. B is how the tubing is made. The spec that matters is which joining systems they support, which could be expansion, crimp, or both.

Yes, A has more crosslinking, which means it does better when stretched(expansion) for F1960 type fittings. Type B uses a cheaper process that is not nearly as well cross linked.

Type A B or C can be used with crimp fittings as the tubing is not stretched.

The question is

Why does the world leader and inventor of PEx find type B unsuitable for expansion but another company does?

Using type B would allow upnor to sell their system much more cost effective to compete with other cheaper crimp systems. But they choose not to.

Souix sells both A and B and says that both can be used with expansion. Does their B actually have something better? Or does it just barely meet specs? Why continue to sell A? The thing is we have to trust that they are not just pushing for sales numbers as their only reason.

Zurn has shown to be an unethical company so I discount everything coming from them.

I personally use upnor propex and will continue to as its IMHO the best of the non copper plumbing systems out there, and the best if encased in concrete.

It only cost a little more to go first class and the price is soon forgotten over high quality materials. Its been my experience that you remember real quick about the money you have wasted when cheap things fail. And in the case of hydronic heat plumbing it can be outrageously expensive to fix in the future.

 

[DGersic]

Yes, A has more crosslinking, which means it does better when stretched(expansion) for F1960 type fittings. Type B uses a cheaper process that is not nearly as well cross linked.

Type A B or C can be used with crimp fittings as the tubing is not stretched.

The question is

Why does the world leader and inventor of PEx find type B unsuitable for expansion but another company does?

Using type B would allow upnor to sell their system much more cost effective to compete with other cheaper crimp systems. But they choose not to.

Souix sells both A and B and says that both can be used with expansion. Does their B actually have something better? Or does it just barely meet specs? Why continue to sell A? The thing is we have to trust that they are not just pushing for sales numbers as their only reason.

Zurn has shown to be an unethical company so I discount everything coming from them.

I personally use upnor propex and will continue to as its IMHO the best of the non copper plumbing systems out there, and the best if encased in concrete.

It only cost a little more to go first class and the price is soon forgotten over high quality materials. Its been my experience that you remember real quick about the money you have wasted when cheap things fail. And in the case of hydronic heat plumbing it can be outrageously expensive to fix in the future.

And yet Upponor seems to be problematic. Their earlier products are failing in service, and they’re releasing new products that may not actually be better than the old ones.

There is a lot of information available. No company or product is perfect. After weighing what I found, I went with Souix Chief over the other alternatives. Price was not my primary concern, so it Is wrong to insinuate that I went for the cheap option over quality.

You’re happy with Uppanor. Good for you. You’ll not convince me, and I doubt I’ll convince you.

 

[Grimm_the_Grey]

m

And yet Upponor seems to be problematic. Their earlier products are failing in service, and they’re releasing new products that may not actually be better than the old ones.

There is a lot of information available. No company or product is perfect. After weighing what I found, I went with Souix Chief over the other alternatives. Price was not my primary concern, so it Is wrong to insinuate that I went for the cheap option over quality.

You’re happy with Uppanor. Good for you. You’ll not convince me, and I doubt I’ll convince you.

i've found everything i've ever used from Sioux Chief to be very high quality. Also, their warranty terms are more inclusive. they stand behind their products