US Manufacturers: Fix your web sites!

[bwringer]

< RANT >

Time to get this off my chest. It's bothered me for quite a long time.

Here's a free, guaranteed business-expanding hint for manufacturers of US-made tools (or any manufacturer, for that matter): SELL YOUR STUFF ON YOUR WEB SITE OR TELL US EXACTLY WHERE TO GO TO GET YOUR STUFF. And would it frickin' kill you to list MSRP so we have some idea of the ballpark we're in?

Also, tell us exactly, in real-world terms, why your stuff is worth more. Chanting "USA! JOBS! USA! INDUSTRIAL! UNION! HEAVY-DUTY!" isn't enough to get a lot of people to spend, in some cases, five to ten times more. Speak to us of bearings, and castings, and bushings, and parts availability, and powder coating, and honing, and all the rest.

Or, if you're actually somewhat price-competitive, friggin' say so in big juicy red letters!

Honestly, it's really hard to feel sorry for US manufacturers who make it nearly impossible to, you know, actually BUY their products or even find substantive information on their crappy web sites. One tiny blurry photo, a part number, and incomplete outdated specs aren't gonna sell much.

Like it or not, the 1930's system of distribution through grumpy dudes with catalogs is fading fast. Time to get with the program and get on the web -- but do it right. Make it useful. Take the cash you're wasting every year on crappy paper catalogs and build a great web site you can keep up-to-date. (And no, catalog PDFs don't count.)

Doing it right:
https://www.channellock.com/

Doing it wrong:
http://www.kalamazooind.com/ (Just one example of a typical, utterly useless manufacturer site. Technical issues with site reflect badly on company.)

http://www.wurthusa.com/ (So many lovely products. No way to buy. Crappy catalog PDFs instead of a proper database -- company is big enough to know better.)

http://www.setools.com/ (Great tools. No prices listed, no way to buy. Site looks like homemade garbage. GRRRRR!)

http://www.dakecorp.com/ (Very, very nice site in many ways -- lots of information, looks great, even has product manuals, etc. But fails utterly to facilitate sales. Sorry, I do NOT want to call your 800 number and subject myself to a sales drone.)

< /RANT >

 

[b7labelle]

Kalamazoo Industries? Never heard of them surprisingly... But it looks like they're right down the road from Bell's Brewery! (OK, little off topic)

 

[bsaint]

Kalamazoo industries isn't that great. I prefer Dynabrade.

 

[firebox40dash5]

Lotsa luck getting mfrs to fix their sites. While there are exceptions, top management doesn't seem to care.

Well, that's kinda the point. They SHOULD care. Like it or not, the revolution already happened while they were sitting there oblivious... not everything is done online, but a whole lot is.

I'm all about buying American, supporting American jobs. That's a little hard to do if I've never heard of your company. And I hang out here, so if *I* never heard of you, what do you think the odds of Joe off the street having heard of you are? Likewise, if you're not well-known brand, I want to get a good look at what I'm buying, because I've probably never had the chance to hold it. And if most of your product is sold through industrials like Grainger or MSC, then I seriously have no idea what a fair market value for your stuff is, because it's probably not what they list. The companies buying from those places don't care if you list your MSRP, they know they pay a premium there, and most of them get a hefty discount anyway.

Seriously, if I'm researching something and I find a website that looks like it was made in '97 with Notepad, my first thought is "just what kind of dog and pony show is this company? And will they even exist next year if I break or lose something and have to replace it?" I can put together a decent, modern-looking website (proper product catalog notwithstanding) in a few hours with free software, they could have it done for a couple grand without a problem. There's really no good reason for a company that wants to survive to have a website that looks like they abandoned it back when everyone used AOL.

 

[stratman977]

The problem with your complaint is that many of these buisnesses aren't focused toward the end user. They sell their stuff to larger companies through contracts and distributors. Some salesman comes around to the plant and brings all kinds of nice toys and buys lunch trying to get their commission. The one who brings the best toys gets the sales.

I would guess some of those companies are only interested in large contracts such as government. Selling to the public or retail is not their bread and butter so they don't care about it.

 

[KPSquared]

I don't think many of the "crappy" sites you listed do any retail sales. They are manufacutrers. If you are a distributor, you probably have a hard copy of their sales cataloge and a price list. They really have no reason to update websites.

Now, if their focus was on retail sales, I could see needing to put an effort in.

You want Wurth products? Find someone that sells them because Wurth doesn't. . .the website is designed to sell exclusively to their commercial partners. . . it says it right on the site.

Same with Dake. That site is set up to showcase products. It's very well done. When you want to buy something, find a Dake retailer. . . I'm guessing if you call the 1-800 number the first thing they are going to ask for is you account number. . .

Here. . . here's how to buy a Dake press. . .

http://www.grainger.com/product/DAKE-CORPORATION-Manual-Hydraulic-Press-40F053

 

[bczygan]

Many manufacturers are stuck in a very old paradigm of manufacturer - wholesaler (Or manufacturers rep.) - retailer.
They won't sell to an end user. The only way to contact them on the internet is to fill out a form and wait for them to contact you.
Many have minimum quantities that make purchase impractical.
Some don't even have websites.

Stupid in my book. But they have their reasons. Many are just run by hidebound people who don't like change.

Wholesaler I worked for still kept records of retailers we sold to, in a metal flip file until way into the computer age.

It does contribute to longtime American businesses failing. We operate in a worldwide business environment. If steelmakers in another country find ways to be more efficient and generate more sales and we don't, they take the market and we lose it.

The result is industries shut down, businesses closed, people out of work, empty buildings that are eventually demolished, increased national debt and reduced GDP, poverty, depression, alcoholism, increased crime, ill health, shorter lifespans and the extinguishing of the American dream.

How's that for a cheerful thought to start the day with?

Bill

 

[LG63]

It can be done, I think Miller has one of the best manufacturer's websites out there:
www.millerwelds.com

 

[rmsg0040]

Not just US manufacturers, all retail companies should have a decent website. IMO

I remember when Lowes entered the Canadian market, their website was trash.

Most things I purchase, I research it online before buying.

 

[mattygee]

I would agree with the thrust of the OP's post... I'm sure the companies that sell through tool trucks make a conscious decision to limit their websites to 'window shopping' in order to maintain the status quo... In this day and age though, I wonder who the status quo is really benefiting. The tool truck business model does have its place, but not everyone interested in say, a Snap-On item works in a repair facility frequented by tool trucks, and like cops, there's never a tool truck around when you need one.

There's also the issue of the 'what in it for me' attitude of many truck owners. My only contact with the Snappy guy around here might be to replace a worn out socket or broken screwdriver. Not the kind of foot traffic they necessarily welcome.

M

 

[Running Fat Man]

LOL at the 1930's model of a grumpy dude with a catalogue.

Very true, and I agree with most of your points. Sometimes you just have to let the market shake itself out, the ones that adapt survive and the ones who cant or refuse to will close up shop.

 

[just a noob]

Am I the only one that has trouble with the Mac tools site? everything seems miscategorized to me

 

[Peoria Man]

Time to get this off my chest. It's bothered me for quite a long time.

Here's a free, guaranteed business-expanding hint for manufacturers of US-made tools (or any manufacturer, for that matter): SELL YOUR STUFF ON YOUR WEB SITE OR TELL US EXACTLY WHERE TO GO TO GET YOUR STUFF. And would it frickin' kill you to list MSRP so we have some idea of the ballpark we're in?

Hello! The phenomenon you describe is not exclusive to US manufacturers. Not hardly.

 

[wjamyers]

lol at "union" motivating anyone. they served a useful purpose... once upon a time.

now they're just a vote-buying and company/municipality-bankrupting scam.

 

[KPSquared]

. . .and. . . Thread killer.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

 

[mrjaw14]

Snap-On's site is so so. SK's kinda *****, so does wright's and armstrong's in my opinion. Not very user friendly compared with other sites.

I'd love to see more high quality zoomable images, including of kits, with minimum of msrp, or better yet actual prices if they sell to the public

Better descriptions! less is not more in this case! tell me everything you can about your product, it matters

 

[Thumper68]

Not a tool site but along the same lines Schwans, pizza hut and domino's all have great web sites that allow you to order online and have the product delivered to your door by their drivers. All three of those are easy to use and are based on servicing their customers.

Home Depot is the same but not as easy to use but the buy online and then pick up in store is one of the reasons I shop there. I love the fact that I can make a huge order of many different things from supplies to tools and I will get a text when it's ready to be picked up, I walk in go to the desk and then load up my truck no time wasted searching for something, and I save a ton of money by not getting any impulse items.

A few years ago I was searching for an obscure part for something, I found it on a web site (I don't remember which one) and I requested more info on it, within 15 minutes their rep had called me confirmed that the part I needed and concluded the sale and had it shipped that day.

Like the OP I wish that manufactuers would make their sites user friendly maybe not to order but at least to have all the specs, good photo's and a way to find a retailer or distributer, without having to wait sometimes for days for them to get back to you.

Face it guys we are living in an instant world, we want it fast and easy.

 

[Duarte]

lol at "union" motivating anyone. they served a useful purpose... once upon a time.

now they're just a vote-buying and company/municipality-bankrupting scam.

Another blame the unions robot. Do they make you listen to audio tapes to learn all these coreographed lines?

IT DOES matter to me and to millions of other union members.

 

[wjamyers]

Another blame the unions robot. Do they make you listen to audio tapes to learn all these coreographed lines?

IT DOES matter to me and to millions of other union members.

Do you know what lifestyle u are providing your higher ups? Do you ever rub shoulders with them or the politicians they buy? Serious questions, Curious to know. I work in tech, feel like I'm in a time warp, no offense intended.

 

[K13]

I don't think many of the "crappy" sites you listed do any retail sales. They are manufacutrers. If you are a distributor, you probably have a hard copy of their sales cataloge and a price list. They really have no reason to update websites.

Doesn't matter, if you sell to an end user at any point along your distribution chain your website should be kept up to date and contain useful information. Whoever is selling your products are not going to have a website containing all your information unless they are a giant retailer like Home Depot.

Nobody wants catalogues anymore and companies update them once a year at the most which means any new products either have individual brochures or no information at all if it is not on the website.

I work in sales for a US manufacturer, we don't sell directly to end users, our website is mediocre at best and I get complaints about it all the time. Most people these days if you hand them a brochure or a catalogue hand it back and say is the info on your website.

 

[sammerdog]

< RANT >

...it's really hard to feel sorry for US manufacturers (retailers?) who make it nearly impossible to, you know, actually BUY their products or even find substantive information on their crappy web sites...

...Time to get with the program and get on the web -- but do it right. Make it useful. Take the cash you're wasting every year on crappy paper catalogs (newspaper inserts?) and build a great web site you can keep up-to-date...

< /RANT >

We are talking about Sears and Lowes here, aren't we?

 

[KPSquared]

I guess when they stop making money they'll start caring or just out source to China. Then they'll get a good website...

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

 

[oldtools]

Ask them to copy HF website.

 

[Hyster Gareth]

There's also the issue of the 'what in it for me' attitude of many truck owners. My only contact with the Snappy guy around here might be to replace a worn out socket or broken screwdriver. Not the kind of foot traffic they necessarily welcome.

Good point I have always had great service from the Snap On dealers I have dealt with even as one off warranty. However I have heard a few horror stories as well from other people.

 

[Duarte]

Do you know what lifestyle u are providing your higher ups? Do you ever rub shoulders with them or the politicians they buy? Serious questions, Curious to know. I work in tech, feel like I'm in a time warp, no offense intended.

Yes, I do. I go sailing with them on their yachts and we fly out to Vegas for lavish business trips. Do you really believe all the propaganda? I am a union officer and unpaid as such. Our entire local executive committee is unpaid. Our regional rep makes about 60K, which is not extravagant in our region, unions have to file 990 tax forms, so the facts don't support your accusations. I work in tech also, go figure. Maybe you should do some research before making blanket statements that offend millions of hard working union members across this country.

Do you feel as strongly about corporations influencing votes (buying politicians, lobbying, crafting legislation to their own designs)?. Do you rub shoulders with the Koch brothers and other 1%ers , who finance all this anti-union rhetoric or are you just an unwitting pawn in their propaganda machine?

It's corporate greed that is bankrupting this country, not the hard working lower and middle class. Unions have all but been eliminated in this country, and yet there are those who still blame unions for what is happening to the economy? What is your agenda? The hypocrisy of all this anti-union propaganda is that it is corporate America that is buying votes and bankrupting government, all for the mighty dollar. By vilifying unions you are deomonizing hard working teachers, firefighters, police officers, nurses, electricians, pipe-fitters, communications workers, postal workers, delivery drivers, etc. and that is NOT fair.

 

[Hyster Gareth]

Not just US manufacturers I wish Gray would sell from there website and I have heard from other GJ members that they do not reply to emails! Although on the website they claim to answer within 24 hours.

 

[nmcqueen469]

Kalamazoo Industries? Never heard of them surprisingly... But it looks like they're right down the road from Bell's Brewery! (OK, little off topic)

Road trip!!!

 

[jd_1138]

I wonder if part of it is because selling from their websites would piss off their dealers and distributors? But it'd be nice if they sold from their websites.

I definitely feel they need to have better online catalogs and updated links to local retailers. Maybe all the North American made tool co's should band together and come up with a plan to sell via tool trucks to all the shops across North America.

 

[scaron]

Road trip!!!

ah, my old home town! clausing machine is located there too, on the north end, for those who didn't know. what little remains of the city's metalworking past, after GM MFD, eaton-fuller transmission and checker motors are long gone.

perhaps more on topic, i've been pretty happy with most of the tool companies that i've wanted to buy stuff from. klein, ideal, S-K, wright, proto all make it real easy to pull down a nice full catalog in PDF format, i can peruse that and then go find a vendor who's got the item i want.

a lot of manufacturers are not interested in direct sale or posting prices because it will make their distributors unhappy.

you can usually tell pretty quickly, by looking at a company's site, whether or not they're interested in dealing with retail customers over the web, or if the prefer to do things the old way with sales reps, distributors, telephone calls however they want to run their business, i guess.

 

[wjamyers]

Yes, I do. I go sailing with them on their yachts and we fly out to Vegas for lavish business trips. Do you really believe all the propaganda? I am a union officer and unpaid as such. Our entire local executive committee is unpaid. Our regional rep makes about 60K, which is not extravagant in our region, unions have to file 990 tax forms, so the facts don't support your accusations. I work in tech also, go figure. Maybe you should do some research before making blanket statements that offend millions of hard working union members across this country.

Do you feel as strongly about corporations influencing votes (buying politicians, lobbying, crafting legislation to their own designs)?. Do you rub shoulders with the Koch brothers and other 1%ers , who finance all this anti-union rhetoric or are you just an unwitting pawn in their propaganda machine?

It's corporate greed that is bankrupting this country, not the hard working lower and middle class. Unions have all but been eliminated in this country, and yet there are those who still blame unions for what is happening to the economy? What is your agenda? The hypocrisy of all this anti-union propaganda is that it is corporate America that is buying votes and bankrupting government, all for the mighty dollar. By vilifying unions you are deomonizing hard working teachers, firefighters, police officers, nurses, electricians, pipe-fitters, communications workers, postal workers, delivery drivers, etc. and that is NOT fair.

Yes I feel as strongly about crony corporatists as I do corrupt unions. But tell me...
Did corporations bankrupt Detroit?

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I wonder if part of it is because selling from their websites would piss off their dealers and distributors? But it'd be nice if they sold from their websites.

I definitely feel they need to have better online catalogs and updated links to local retailers. Maybe all the North American made tool co's should band together and come up with a plan to sell via tool trucks to all the shops across North America.

Take a look at protoindustrial.com THE best I have seen...
links the tool to the vendors; along with the competitive prices... and Buy It buttons to get a tool heading your direction in short order.

 

[jake00]

Proto is this way, I bent the center screw of a puller, emailed them, never heard back

 

[PugetDude]

... do you really believe all the propaganda?

No, I don't. But thanks for trying!

 

[PugetDude]

Ask them to copy HF website.

A lot of truth in that statement... HF was an early adopter of eCommerce, and their growth reflects that. Whether you like their tools or not, they have been very successful in building their brands and expanding their business.

(Let the HF bashing begin...)

 

[bwringer]

a lot of manufacturers are not interested in direct sale or posting prices because it will make their distributors unhappy.

you can usually tell pretty quickly, by looking at a company's site, whether or not they're interested in dealing with retail customers over the web, or if the prefer to do things the old way with sales reps, distributors, telephone calls however they want to run their business, i guess.

This is what's baffling to me... are manufacturers in the business of preserving outdated business methods like some sort of museum, or are they in the business of making stuff and selling it for a profit?

I can definitely understand not wanting to deal with the retail or small-time customer. But if this is the case, then work with a decent distributor that will handle that for you; one that can build a modern web site and handle shipping, customer service etc.

Why are so many manufacturers stuck with some doof with a paper catalog? Whether I'm buying 1 or 100 widgets, that doof is just a middleman who costs me more, subtracts value, wastes time and generally gets in the way.

As you said, it's their business to run however they wish. But the ones who manage to keep up with change are the ones who will survive.

I suspect many hidebound "B2B-only" manufacturers would find an startlingly large market among individuals and small businesses (including internationally) if they can work out ways to get their products online and distributed.

 

[KPSquared]

If they only knew the potential of the online market. . . Until the current system fails them, Nothing will ever change.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

 

[Duarte]

Yes I feel as strongly about crony corporatists as I do corrupt unions.

You could've fooled me...

But tell me...
Did corporations bankrupt Detroit?

The same causes as are bankrupting the USA, a destroyed industrial base, off-shoring jobs, weakened unions, weakened middle class, the HUGE and ever increasing income gap, corporate greed. Detroit is just a larger city that was affected more than most. To blame the unions is DISINGENUOUS at best, deceitful at least.

 

[jd_1138]

This is what's baffling to me... are manufacturers in the business of preserving outdated business methods like some sort of museum, or are they in the business of making stuff and selling it for a profit?

The problem is that there are a lot of older tech/mechanics/DIY'ers who don't even own computers, so a lot of these customers wouldn't be able to buy from websites. So for about 10 years or so, there will probably still be the old styles of distribution alongside newer e-commerce solutions.

 

[PugetDude]

The problem is that there are a lot of older tech/mechanics/DIY'ers who don't even own computers...

Not necessarily; we're all posting here!

 

[jd_1138]

You could've fooled me...

The same causes as are bankrupting the USA, a destroyed industrial base, off-shoring jobs, weakened unions, weakened middle class, the HUGE and ever increasing income gap, corporate greed. Detroit is just a larger city that was affected more than most. To blame the unions is DISINGENUOUS at best, deceitful at least.

+1. This man speaks the truth. It's nuanced. Sledgehammer logic won't get to the truth.