USA Craftsman Return?

[Brownsfan]

Take this with a grain of salt but... I was at 2 different Sears Hardware stores last week and had 2 different general managers tell me something pretty interesting. They both said they were at a product training this month and they were told that there will be a BIG push in the near future for more USA made stuff in the stores. That includes lawn mowers, snow blowers etc. and tools. They both were told that when the current contract with their current supplier expires then there will be a shift. The only reason this even came up was because they had the torx and hex but socket sets locked up in a case. I asked if I could make sure they were USA before I bought them. Like I said take this with a grain of salt but I just thought it was interesting that 2 different managers told me this. They both also said that the backlash was worse than they expected. I posted this in different thread but wanted to see what everyone else thinks. Is it wishful thinking or could there actually be something to this.

 

[MPOWERD]

I would indeed take it with a grain of salt... "near future" could mean anything. It sounds more like a ploy to keep Sears customers coming back to Sears than changing the brand back...

Probably a new taught "response" for management to give to customers that ask about USA made items. I dont believe a word that anyone at Sears says about anything these days...

 

[jpickar]

We will wait and see. But it makes sense that a smart business man would listen to the people who buy the products.

John

 

[CWP1616L]

They both were told that when the current contract with their current supplier expires then there will be a shift.

Who are they going to find to make tools in the USA? There's not very many manufacturers making tools in the USA anymore.

 

[CWP1616L]

Apex still makes tools in the US. Stanley still does, too. Then, of course, there are brands like SK, Wright.

None of those companies can make tools for as cheap as Sears want's to sell them - and the customer isn't gonna to start paying more money for them either. It's a downward spiral with no end in sight.

 

[Brownsfan]

Who knows who will make them but there are still many out there. The problem is can they make them so they can stay close to the current pricing? Or maybe expand the Evolve line and make the Craftsman line more "high end"? I would love to see them come back. Can a company like Western Forge or Wilde have the ability or already making ratchets, sockets and wrenches? Since they already make the pliers and screwdrivers(wf) and prybars(wilde) and those are staying USA so far. Maybe SK can make a cheaper tool for Sears? Time will tell but for know they can keep the China stuff

 

[SKAutomotive]

My wife works for Sears and says this is all smooth talking. Craftsman USA made will now only be offered in Industrial.

 

[CWP1616L]

If they brought back a USA-made, decently priced line that a serious DIY'er can afford, then I'd buy them.

That sounds like SK tools right there...

 

[kunkernator]

It makes sense to me; I am assuming that Sears has a contract with Danaher, and when Danaher moved overseas, Sears was bound to that contract. When the contract is up, maybe they will source a US manufacturer.

This is all theory of course, and if they just told us the reasoning behind everything, I know I wold be happier.

 

[diesel research]

My wife works for Sears and says this is all smooth talking. Craftsman USA made will now only be offered in Industrial.

means wont even be sold at sears retail stores like the current industrial?

 

[SKAutomotive]

means wont even be sold at sears retail stores like the current industrial?

That I couldn't comment on, but currently it appears that Sears has no intention of offering their industrial line in the stores. I wish they would though, I would gladly spend money on a lot of that stuff over my truck brand tools I buy now.

 

[lowbucktruck]

I hate to say it, but I'm going to remain skeptical. Sears doesn't know what they have in the Craftsman tool line/brand. And they continue to **** where they eat. The industrial line of Craftsman is the only logical place for USA-made tools. Sears doesn't care about the average home-owner/weekend wrench-turner. They have made that perfectly clear (and it sickens me, but what ya gonna do).

 

[SKAutomotive]

Danaher's tool division is now part of Apex Tools. Apex still makes tools in the US, like Armstrong tools and the tools Apex produces that Menards sells under the Masterforce name. Apex also makes the USA made tools that Sears sells under the Craftsman Industrial name.

I don't think Sears was caught off guard and Apex switched to Chinese production without the consent of Sears.

This.

Sears was hoping they could pull the wool over the eyes of the masses, rely on the Craftsman name and the public conception that Craftsman = USA made. Their goal was to charge the same prices for cheaper quality tools and it back fired. Craftsman's forums and FB page are lit up by people who are angry about everything being Chinese, they certainly did not expect this backlash at all.

The people at Sears work on commission, all of them. Sometimes I have my wife check if they have any US made sets of specific tools still left and she asks one of the tool salesman to check. Usually it is China made and he is still hopeful for the sale, but I decline and he gets bummed out. He has openly complained about how many people call or visit and ask this question and then decide against the purchased based on this. As you can imagine it has significantly effected his paycheck, which puts stress on him, so I don't blame his vocalization of it.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

There IS some discussions on these sort of things flying around internally at Sears.

As of yet nothing that I have seen in writing to confirm a shift in production

Yea, many customers are complaining about the outsourcing however tools sales are up which is agreeing with data from focus groups Sears polled a while back--basically the consumer was more concerned with pricing and warranty than COO. Sears responded to customer data on this.

They are also watching warranty exchanges of outsourced tools as well. Despite what is stated here on this board the outsourced ratchets are holding up better than the last generation of USA made ratchets. Having both models I too would agree the outsourced ones have better mechanisms.

Best thing to do is keep the pressure on. Sears has done the outsource thing before only to bring production back domestically.

 

[CWP1616L]

Danaher's tool division is now part of Apex Tools.

They're still Danaher as far as I'm concerned. Apex used to be a Cooper Tools brand from way back in the day when "Apex" meant high quality specialty tools for the Aerospace and other manufacturing industries.

-

 

[montanafordman]

There IS some discussions on these sort of things flying around internally at Sears.

Yea, many customers are complaining about the outsourcing however tools sales are up which is agreeing with data from focus groups Sears polled a while back--basically the consumer was more concerned with pricing and warranty than COO. Sears responded to customer data on this.

.

Only because a lot of people who had long term wish list items are buying all the remaining USA stock as fast as they can, and a lot of other people are finding reasons to buy duplicates of tools they already own or stockpiling to make a buck because they see it as a last opportunity to buy affordable USA tools. Once their USA stock is gone I think they'll see their sales levels drop lower than ever.

 

[Higgins]

I find it interesting that the Sales Assoc. still work on commission! As the two gentlemen who work in our local Sears store are never in the tool section. Then are shooting the breeze with the checkout lady. They only ask if they can "Assist" as you walk out the door. This has been like this for years!!!!

AL

 

[Brownsfan]

Only because a lot of people who had long term wish list items are buying all the remaining USA stock as fast as they can, and a lot of other people are finding reasons to buy duplicates of tools they already own or stockpiling to make a buck because they see it as a last opportunity to buy affordable USA tools. Once their USA stock is gone I think they'll see their sales levels drop lower than ever.

Beat me to it. I wonder what the percentage of USA and china tools were bought during this sales upswing. I am one of the people who just bought a bunch of USA made stuff and really didn't need any of it. Just didn't want to be forced to buy a more expensive tool or a china tool when the time came

 

[cookefab]

Only because a lot of people who had long term wish list items are buying all the remaining USA stock as fast as they can, and a lot of other people are finding reasons to buy duplicates of tools they already own or stockpiling to make a buck because they see it as a last opportunity to buy affordable USA tools. Once their USA stock is gone I think they'll see their sales levels drop lower than ever.

^^^This^^^

Skeptical? Just go to a Sears...all but the newest stores have seen a severe drop in people even coming to the stores, much less buying anything. The bulk of their profitable sales in the last 3 years comes from updates to the Kenmore line. Tool product moving in most stores did not register as noticable NEW product SALES, as the moving product was most often deeply discounted - clearance of the US produced stock. The same rings true for their online sales...its all in their financials.

 

[carterbeauford]

That includes lawn mowers, snow blowers etc

MTD makes most of the mowers, snowblowers, tillers you see for sale everywhere, they're made in TN and mostly garbage. I say this after a visit to their factory. in this case it's a feel good term.

 

[brickG-man]

I find it interesting that the Sales Assoc. still work on commission! As the two gentlemen who work in our local Sears store are never in the tool section. Then are shooting the breeze with the checkout lady. They only ask if they can "Assist" as you walk out the door. This has been like this for years!!!!

AL

I was also shocked to read that the sales people work on commission. At the Sears home and hardware that I shop at to call the sales people aggressive and hungry for your business would be quite a stretch.

 

[Texican]

Sears may have damaged the Craftsman name beyond repair. They have already cheapened the Lands End brand by offering it through Kmart. They should keep the Craftsman made in the USA line separate from the made in China junk. Rename the Chinese made items to something other than Craftsman and begin to offer the Craftsman Industrial in stores but keep them apart from the low end tools. Make a clear distinction and market it that way.

 

[OGJordan]

There IS some discussions on these sort of things flying around internally at Sears.

As of yet nothing that I have seen in writing to confirm a shift in production

Yea, many customers are complaining about the outsourcing however tools sales are up which is agreeing with data from focus groups Sears polled a while back--basically the consumer was more concerned with pricing and warranty than COO. Sears responded to customer data on this.

They are also watching warranty exchanges of outsourced tools as well. Despite what is stated here on this board the outsourced ratchets are holding up better than the last generation of USA made ratchets. Having both models I too would agree the outsourced ones have better mechanisms.

Best thing to do is keep the pressure on. Sears has done the outsource thing before only to bring production back domestically.

I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, but rather a comment on the whole "Gotta have me a made in Merica item!" attitude. And until we overcome that, America will continue it's rapid fall toward a second rate country.

Your response in a nutshell: People care more about price than where it was made. Sales are up. Data shows warranty exchanges are down. You personally think the ratchet mech is better. BUT, the last thing you say is to "keep the pressure on" so they will bring it back to US production????

WHAT?!?!

So, a company is doing what the majority of it's customers want, making better products, people are happier with it, AND they're making more money.....but we want them to change??? Because 0.05% of the customers think it needs to say USA on it somewhere?

This is a choice EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU made. If you want a 2000+ sq foot house; 2,3,4 newer cars to a home; a television in every room; computers; thousands of dollars in kitchen appliances; wood/tile floors; $400 cell phones every 2 years; etc etc etc..........you MUST make more than $3/hr. I grew up dirt poor. I couldn't IMAGINE living on less than $50,000 a year as a household now, hell that would be "poor" to me now and I'm only 35.

So how can you HONESTLY expect a company to sell you a $15 ratchet while having to pay a lazy, sloppy American $18-$25/hr to be less efficient than the guy in China who WANTS his factory job? And come on, give this "American Craftsman" ******** a rest. Americans in the 50s-60s, sure we had some pride. I'm a Production Manager for a major automotive manufacturer and I can tell you in the last 15 years, I've only met 10 on the floor factory workers who actually care and try. 99% of factory workers just want a raise for nothing, more breaks, and to cut corners. And our factories pay 25% above local rates, are nearly spotlessly clean, breaks are given every 2 hrs. Having came from the floor this is an EXCELLENT place to work.

Having toured plants in other countries, those people WANT their job. They don't call in to go fishing, or because it's nice out. They don't whine about everything under the sun. They don't goof off and talk, they focus on their job. I would buy a Japan or Germany built car EVERY SINGLE TIME over one built in my backyard. AND they'll do it for half the labor cost?

And THAT my friends, is why Sears has gone to **** over the years. They've been trying to keep this "Made in the USA" stuff going while selling it for "Made in Korea" prices. A business CANNOT survive that way. If you want a product made by $30/hr experts, you have to pay for it. $15 for a $3/hr worker made ratchet, or $150 for a $30/hr worker made ratchet= SAME PROFIT MARGIN. And which do you think you'll sell 1000x more of???????

 

[NC-Fordguy]

^^^This^^^

Skeptical? Just go to a Sears...all but the newest stores have seen a severe drop in people even coming to the stores, much less buying anything. The bulk of their profitable sales in the last 3 years comes from updates to the Kenmore line. Tool product moving in most stores did not register as noticable NEW product SALES, as the moving product was most often deeply discounted - clearance of the US produced stock. The same rings true for their online sales...its all in their financials.

Could you direct me to a link of the as you say financials that you got this information from? It's surely not in any of the financials that I've read.

The Financials that I have read has not shown a gain for the past 3 years on the kenmore line.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, but rather a comment on the whole "Gotta have me a made in Merica item!" attitude. And until we overcome that, America will continue it's rapid fall toward a second rate country.

Your response in a nutshell: People care more about price than where it was made. Sales are up. Data shows warranty exchanges are down. You personally think the ratchet mech is better. BUT, the last thing you say is to "keep the pressure on" so they will bring it back to US production????

WHAT?!?!

So, a company is doing what the majority of it's customers want, making better products, people are happier with it, AND they're making more money.....but we want them to change??? Because 0.05% of the customers think it needs to say USA on it somewhere?

Could you highlight or point out where I stated "so they will bring it back to US production????"

I agree with your 0.05 assertion, however there are other options available. The industrial line is domestically produced but the problem is it's not readily available from Sears direct on a regular basis.

I've been inquiring on that for a while. Of course when I've mentioned it here it just turns into the typical GJ finger fornication thing.

I'd like Sears to offer a product for that 0.05 base especially seeing how they already have it

 

[fivespdcat]

I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, but rather a comment on the whole "Gotta have me a made in Merica item!" attitude. And until we overcome that, America will continue it's rapid fall toward a second rate country.

Your response in a nutshell: People care more about price than where it was made. Sales are up. Data shows warranty exchanges are down. You personally think the ratchet mech is better. BUT, the last thing you say is to "keep the pressure on" so they will bring it back to US production????

WHAT?!?!

So, a company is doing what the majority of it's customers want, making better products, people are happier with it, AND they're making more money.....but we want them to change??? Because 0.05% of the customers think it needs to say USA on it somewhere?

This is a choice EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU made. If you want a 2000+ sq foot house; 2,3,4 newer cars to a home; a television in every room; computers; thousands of dollars in kitchen appliances; wood/tile floors; $400 cell phones every 2 years; etc etc etc..........you MUST make more than $3/hr. I grew up dirt poor. I couldn't IMAGINE living on less than $50,000 a year as a household now, hell that would be "poor" to me now and I'm only 35.

So how can you HONESTLY expect a company to sell you a $15 ratchet while having to pay a lazy, sloppy American $18-$25/hr to be less efficient than the guy in China who WANTS his factory job? And come on, give this "American Craftsman" ******** a rest. Americans in the 50s-60s, sure we had some pride. I'm a Production Manager for a major automotive manufacturer and I can tell you in the last 15 years, I've only met 10 on the floor factory workers who actually care and try. 99% of factory workers just want a raise for nothing, more breaks, and to cut corners. And our factories pay 25% above local rates, are nearly spotlessly clean, breaks are given every 2 hrs. Having came from the floor this is an EXCELLENT place to work.

Having toured plants in other countries, those people WANT their job. They don't call in to go fishing, or because it's nice out. They don't whine about everything under the sun. They don't goof off and talk, they focus on their job. I would buy a Japan or Germany built car EVERY SINGLE TIME over one built in my backyard. AND they'll do it for half the labor cost?

And THAT my friends, is why Sears has gone to **** over the years. They've been trying to keep this "Made in the USA" stuff going while selling it for "Made in Korea" prices. A business CANNOT survive that way. If you want a product made by $30/hr experts, you have to pay for it. $15 for a $3/hr worker made ratchet, or $150 for a $30/hr worker made ratchet= SAME PROFIT MARGIN. And which do you think you'll sell 1000x more of???????

This whole post is not even remotely accurate. I understand your point, but it's better to use some facts. If you think plants in Germany are cheaper and they don't goof off, you've never been there. They get a mandatory 6 weeks vacation and generally work 35 hours/week. VW workers went on strike because they didn't want to work more than 32 hours. I also don't see your logic on a $150 ratchet having the same margins as a $15 one. If you just don't like American made products so be it, but don't blindly follow other countries, I get tell enough stories about plants in other countries that you wouldn't much like...

 

[SKAutomotive]

I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, but rather a comment on the whole "Gotta have me a made in Merica item!" attitude. And until we overcome that, America will continue it's rapid fall toward a second rate country.

Your response in a nutshell: People care more about price than where it was made. Sales are up. Data shows warranty exchanges are down. You personally think the ratchet mech is better. BUT, the last thing you say is to "keep the pressure on" so they will bring it back to US production????

WHAT?!?!

So, a company is doing what the majority of it's customers want, making better products, people are happier with it, AND they're making more money.....but we want them to change??? Because 0.05% of the customers think it needs to say USA on it somewhere?

This is a choice EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU made. If you want a 2000+ sq foot house; 2,3,4 newer cars to a home; a television in every room; computers; thousands of dollars in kitchen appliances; wood/tile floors; $400 cell phones every 2 years; etc etc etc..........you MUST make more than $3/hr. I grew up dirt poor. I couldn't IMAGINE living on less than $50,000 a year as a household now, hell that would be "poor" to me now and I'm only 35.

So how can you HONESTLY expect a company to sell you a $15 ratchet while having to pay a lazy, sloppy American $18-$25/hr to be less efficient than the guy in China who WANTS his factory job? And come on, give this "American Craftsman" ******** a rest. Americans in the 50s-60s, sure we had some pride. I'm a Production Manager for a major automotive manufacturer and I can tell you in the last 15 years, I've only met 10 on the floor factory workers who actually care and try. 99% of factory workers just want a raise for nothing, more breaks, and to cut corners. And our factories pay 25% above local rates, are nearly spotlessly clean, breaks are given every 2 hrs. Having came from the floor this is an EXCELLENT place to work.

Having toured plants in other countries, those people WANT their job. They don't call in to go fishing, or because it's nice out. They don't whine about everything under the sun. They don't goof off and talk, they focus on their job. I would buy a Japan or Germany built car EVERY SINGLE TIME over one built in my backyard. AND they'll do it for half the labor cost?

And THAT my friends, is why Sears has gone to **** over the years. They've been trying to keep this "Made in the USA" stuff going while selling it for "Made in Korea" prices. A business CANNOT survive that way. If you want a product made by $30/hr experts, you have to pay for it. $15 for a $3/hr worker made ratchet, or $150 for a $30/hr worker made ratchet= SAME PROFIT MARGIN. And which do you think you'll sell 1000x more of???????

This is how management sees US workers. I think it is time for you to consider a career change.

There are a lot of entitlement people in the workforce, but there are plenty who take pride in their work still. Perhaps you should ask yourself why they don't want to take pride.

 

[bigbearcraig]

I really don't see Sears recovering from the downward spiral that they have been in for the last few years. From what I've read, I see Sears selling off the different brands such as Craftsman and Kenmore. The fate of these products will be determined by the new owners.

 

[miatakid]

As some one who uses tools everyday for a living, I do not care where the tool is made or how old / new it is . So long as it is in my tool box when I need it.

 

[jpickar]

I think Sears is going to go by the wayside as will Pennys. The catalog store is going to be part of our history. The BOX store format is the up and coming thing and it to will fade in time. Everything changes.

Kenmore products are made by government dictates. I learned that when our old washer gave out and we had to buy a new one. Government dictates are what is destroying our on shore production capabilities

The Craftsman brand is to well know to let it disapear. The Craftsman brand will be bought and will be made here and the prices will go up, but not as high as the truck brands. We have had to so good for so long with the Craftsman band tools and prices. Things change. That is life.

John

 

[lithdoc]

I'd love to see this happen but I'll believe it when I see it. Other than pliers, screwdrivers, adjustable wrenches, and pry bars, the rest of the tools will be China 100%. I think Sears still has massive stockpiles of their sockets, so these will stay as new old stock for a while before their tool sets are outsourced completely as well. I have one of their smaller sets and it even says that contents are USA, case if China. All this talk about Craftsman Industrial line is meaningless too, as the line is being discontinued and the sets have been clearanced at 70-80% for some time now.

 

[Kracin]

This whole post is not even remotely accurate. I understand your point, but it's better to use some facts. If you think plants in Germany are cheaper and they don't goof off, you've never been there. They get a mandatory 6 weeks vacation and generally work 35 hours/week. VW workers went on strike because they didn't want to work more than 32 hours. I also don't see your logic on a $150 ratchet having the same margins as a $15 one. If you just don't like American made products so be it, but don't blindly follow other countries, I get tell enough stories about plants in other countries that you wouldn't much like...

they have an entirely different economy... this all means nothing

 

[shoturtle]

This whole post is not even remotely accurate. I understand your point, but it's better to use some facts. If you think plants in Germany are cheaper and they don't goof off, you've never been there. They get a mandatory 6 weeks vacation and generally work 35 hours/week. VW workers went on strike because they didn't want to work more than 32 hours. I also don't see your logic on a $150 ratchet having the same margins as a $15 one. If you just don't like American made products so be it, but don't blindly follow other countries, I get tell enough stories about plants in other countries that you wouldn't much like...

You do not get 6 weeks of mandatory vacation a year. You start off with 4 and work your way up over couple of years. So it is a bit nicer that you start at 4 weeks vs 2 weeks in the US. But I had 6 weeks of vacation at my last company in the US.

But culture is a bit different. Europe has a different way then the US. In Germany the 40 hour work week is normal. Other EU country they have 35 hour work weeks. And most in German are at work form 9-5. VW is quasi public and govt own company as one of their principle owner is the german state of Lower Saxony, where they are located. And does things a bit different form MB, BMW and Opel. Politics are a big part of labor contracts. As it can effect politicians re-election. VW give it on one end and take away on the other, they really press their supplier more then most other OEM in Germany. VW even stipulate to their supplier to offer shore parts.

PS also with factory workers in Germany, the first 2 years at VW or any other OEM. They earn really low wages. As they are in their training on the job called an Ausbildung. It would be at the min wage of the state they are located. About 9 euros an hours I think in Lower Saxony. And once they finish the training on the job. The start at the bottom of the union scale. Which is not great either. And they work they way up. So business and cultural difference are very different. And really not that easy to directly translate the US eco practice and the german.

That said, there are professions that manager work 80-90 hours a week. They earn about 90-120k euros a year. While their US conterparts will earn 150-250k. And base on their location the exchange rate does not play into the earning. A euro for a german is equal to a dollar for an American.

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

I watch this whole Crafstman / China production / production pricing issue with mild amusement. Was this a mistake? Did Sears think they could get away with cheaper tools and nobody would notice? Were they surprised by the reaction? Let me remind you of another similar situation.

Anyone remember "New Coke" ?

It comes down to money. Can Sears make enough money from the customers they have that won't mind a lower cost tool that is sufficient for their weekend incidental needs?

Face it, people of GJ here are *not* what Sears wants for customers. Our total purchase power doesn't really mean much in the grand total of customers. We are tiny percentage. BUT we are a very *noisy* percentage, and with forums full of complaints about Sears quality, that can affect search engines and reviews. Suddenly a small number of very vocal and highly qualified end users of tools are complaining about this or that tool, and they aren't shy about what they say about Sears, what happened, and why they won't buy.

That's something Sears does care about. Since the stores are at malls, they really depend on walk through traffic. I would dare say that the home box stores get far more business in tools from the casual weekend builder as that is where they think of for tools and hardware. Sears? The place that sells lawnmowers and socks? Oh yeah, they sell tools too. But no lumber or plumbing, so they'll go to the box store instead. Tools are a secondary item- something you buy to install the toilet. You don't go to the home center JUST to ogle tools.

But we're different. We do go to Sears to lust after tools. We love good quality tools, and when those tools disappoint us, we go elsewhere.

Coca Cola knows this. When they tried New Coke, people panicked at first. They stockpiled the old stuff, it went up in price, and purists swore off the new stuff. Eventually the average person got used to the new flavor enough that they didn't complain anymore. New Coke was a success!

Or was it? Pepsi and others came out with new flavors. Pepsi pushed the reliability of their old standard flavor and you could always count on that. Pepsi sales went up and Coke sales dropped. Coke realized that they needed the masses, but how to save the public image? Can't admit that New Coke was a mistake, even when the public outlash was embarassing.

Okay, let's bring back the old flavor as Coke Classic. Yeah, that'll do. And over a bit of time, that replaced the New Coke which has been phased out (then brought back under new names now and then).

End result? A company made a choice to change a product and hoped the customers would stay or even increase. When the backlash happened, they had to change their plans and adjust their product to the market conditions or face the fact they would no longer have a market to sell to.

Was this all planned? I'm sure Sears outsourcing to China was intentional. I don't think they ever predicted just how much value the Craftsman name had with customers. They identify with it much like they do with sports, religion, car brands and computer operating systems. When you mess with the product people identify themselves with, it gets personal.

I'm not sure if Sears will actually return to USA production. There's a strong push currently to return to the 'made in USA' branding across all industries. This could be a good marketing opportunity for them. But is it worth it financially for them to do so? That's a question only Sears can answer.

 

[Davefr]

I watch this whole Crafstman / China production / production pricing issue with mild amusement. Was this a mistake? Did Sears think they could get away with cheaper tools and nobody would notice? Were they surprised by the reaction? Let me remind you of another similar situation.

Anyone remember "New Coke" ?

It comes down to money. Can Sears make enough money from the customers they have that won't mind a lower cost tool that is sufficient for their weekend incidental needs?

Face it, people of GJ here are *not* what Sears wants for customers. Our total purchase power doesn't really mean much in the grand total of customers. We are tiny percentage. BUT we are a very *noisy* percentage, and with forums full of complaints about Sears quality, that can affect search engines and reviews. Suddenly a small number of very vocal and highly qualified end users of tools are complaining about this or that tool, and they aren't shy about what they say about Sears, what happened, and why they won't buy.

That's something Sears does care about. Since the stores are at malls, they really depend on walk through traffic. I would dare say that the home box stores get far more business in tools from the casual weekend builder as that is where they think of for tools and hardware. Sears? The place that sells lawnmowers and socks? Oh yeah, they sell tools too. But no lumber or plumbing, so they'll go to the box store instead. Tools are a secondary item- something you buy to install the toilet. You don't go to the home center JUST to ogle tools.

But we're different. We do go to Sears to lust after tools. We love good quality tools, and when those tools disappoint us, we go elsewhere.

Coca Cola knows this. When they tried New Coke, people panicked at first. They stockpiled the old stuff, it went up in price, and purists swore off the new stuff. Eventually the average person got used to the new flavor enough that they didn't complain anymore. New Coke was a success!

Or was it? Pepsi and others came out with new flavors. Pepsi pushed the reliability of their old standard flavor and you could always count on that. Pepsi sales went up and Coke sales dropped. Coke realized that they needed the masses, but how to save the public image? Can't admit that New Coke was a mistake, even when the public outlash was embarassing.

Okay, let's bring back the old flavor as Coke Classic. Yeah, that'll do. And over a bit of time, that replaced the New Coke which has been phased out (then brought back under new names now and then).

End result? A company made a choice to change a product and hoped the customers would stay or even increase. When the backlash happened, they had to change their plans and adjust their product to the market conditions or face the fact they would no longer have a market to sell to.

Was this all planned? I'm sure Sears outsourcing to China was intentional. I don't think they ever predicted just how much value the Craftsman name had with customers. They identify with it much like they do with sports, religion, car brands and computer operating systems. When you mess with the product people identify themselves with, it gets personal.

I'm not sure if Sears will actually return to USA production. There's a strong push currently to return to the 'made in USA' branding across all industries. This could be a good marketing opportunity for them. But is it worth it financially for them to do so? That's a question only Sears can answer.

^^^ Not a good analogy re Coke.

In Sears case it's a tradeoff of price vs COO. Sears shoppers are average homeowners who shop largely based on price.

If average shoppers wanted USA tools then you'd see USA brands like SK, Wright, Williams, Armstrong being sold in stores. 99% of Sears shoppers wouldn't pay USA prices.

 

[Hootbro]

I think Sears is going to go by the wayside as will Pennys. The catalog store is going to be part of our history. The BOX store format is the up and coming thing and it to will fade in time. Everything changes.

Kenmore products are made by government dictates. I learned that when our old washer gave out and we had to buy a new one. Government dictates are what is destroying our on shore production capabilities

The Craftsman brand is to well know to let it disapear. The Craftsman brand will be bought and will be made here and the prices will go up, but not as high as the truck brands. We have had to so good for so long with the Craftsman band tools and prices. Things change. That is life.

John

They have been writing the epitaph of Sears for 10+ years. I will believe their demise when it actually does happen and not from the ever so frequent speculation off the internet message boards that it is always around the corner.

 

[3xpendable]

Craftsman is an American icon! people have been buying that name for years because it was known for great American craftsmanship at an honest price. now maybe in some big city's the do it your self home owner might walk into a sears and buy a tool not caring where it is made or how long it might last, but you let some good ol'boy walk into a sears and find out that the broken craftsman tool his pappy got 10+ years ago is going to be exchanged for a china made one. It wont be pretty and he wont be back.

I am one of many who found old stock tools on sale and grabbed them up and even tho craftsman at this time is moving to china products. I take pride in my craftsman tools I hold it in my hand and it feels like quality it works as hard as i do it comes for the same place I do. I'm holding and working with an American legend. The name that home owners, weekend warriors,green horn techs and pro's alike made America turn with. Its the brand that gives the truck brands a black eye every time some old timer does it just as good with a Craftsman.

In short you don't take a name that means as much as that one and run it into the ground like they are.

 

[Brownsfan]

I am a "city boy" and the switch to China does not sit well with me. I asked my wife today(who knows nothing about tools) when you hear the name Craftsman what imediately comes to your mind besides sears? She says without even thinking good american tools. I still strongly believe that the average person that walks into a sears and buys tools thinks they are buying a quality made in USA tool. I bet they would think twice before buying it if they knew it was made in china. That's why they are at sears buying tools and not harbor freight or even lowes or HD. Hell I use tools professionally and I had no idea that craftsman was off shoring tools until I joined this site. And that is what sears is counting on. The average joe still thinking its a quality USA tool at a good price and not a really expensive china tool

 

[fivespdcat]

You do not get 6 weeks of mandatory vacation a year. You start off with 4 and work your way up over couple of years. So it is a bit nicer that you start at 4 weeks vs 2 weeks in the US. But I had 6 weeks of vacation at my last company in the US.

But culture is a bit different. Europe has a different way then the US. In Germany the 40 hour work week is normal. Other EU country they have 35 hour work weeks. And most in German are at work form 9-5. VW is quasi public and govt own company as one of their principle owner is the german state of Lower Saxony, where they are located. And does things a bit different form MB, BMW and Opel. Politics are a big part of labor contracts. As it can effect politicians re-election. VW give it on one end and take away on the other, they really press their supplier more then most other OEM in Germany. VW even stipulate to their supplier to offer shore parts.

PS also with factory workers in Germany, the first 2 years at VW or any other OEM. They earn really low wages. As they are in their training on the job called an Ausbildung. It would be at the min wage of the state they are located. About 9 euros an hours I think in Lower Saxony. And once they finish the training on the job. The start at the bottom of the union scale. Which is not great either. And they work they way up. So business and cultural difference are very different. And really not that easy to directly translate the US eco practice and the german.

That said, there are professions that manager work 80-90 hours a week. They earn about 90-120k euros a year. While their US conterparts will earn 150-250k. And base on their location the exchange rate does not play into the earning. A euro for a german is equal to a dollar for an American.

This may be true for some states in Gwrmany, but the work rules are all different around the country. In the areas I am familiar with it is 25-30 days off to start, plus 14 holidays. After that you get comp time for each hour of overtime as long as you are not management. This is mandatory, by law. If you do not obey the manager can be fined as the company will be. Additionally, you can not work more than 10 hours (it may be 12) straight. If you do and an accident happens the company is liable for everything. I know people that take the whole month of August and December off. Finally, there are no 24 hour convenience stores/grocery/superstores in the German states I've visited. Most regular shops close at 6 or 8 at the latest and grocery stores close at 8 with some closing at 10. I'm not saying this is completely bad, but it is a different way of life. Europe is expensive in some ways and cheap in others. College is 500 euro a semester, but gas is 8 euro a gallon. Healthcare is a flat fee (based on ***, age, etc) but you have to pay to take a leak in some public restrooms. I love the autobon, train system and tasty cheap beer, but to say the American worker is lazy and others are not is laughable. To close your eyes to some great American workers and open them for the bad while doing the opposite for other countries is equally so. In all my traveling, I can say one thing, there are good and bad wherever you go. You just have to pick the good ones. This same thing goes for tools. There are good and bad ones, you come here to get an idea and hear honest opinions.

I hope Sears insourcing, because I want my neighbors to do well. I like having made in USA on my tools, just like I like my German tools. I pick the ones that suit my needs and budget. This is a great country full of great people. We are not all great, but no country has that.

So in the end, I hope this rumor is true, it really won't make much of a difference for me since all my hard line tools are already purchased, it's just nice to know where my money goes.

 

[diesel research]

^^^gas station convenience stores are certainly open past 8pm.