To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

USA When Not Marked?

Bull

Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
16,189
Location
MA
I'm looking at a tool that has no "USA" stamping. I always assume no stamp means no USA. The seller did not know anything about it. I found the tool on Grainger's website, and they claim the COO is USA. What is your experience in this area? Are COO statements from places like Grainger reliable? Why would a USA made tool not bear the stamp? :headscrat
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

chadster1

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
4,023
Location
Terrell, Texas
i'm looking at a tool that has no "usa" stamping. I always assume no stamp means no usa. The seller did not know anything about it. I found the tool on grainger's website, and they claim the coo is usa. What is your experience in this area? Are coo statements from places like grainger reliable? Why would a usa made tool not bar the stamp? :headscrat

5, 4, 3..............
 

Skin

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
11,713
Location
Boston
Aside from SO's ignorant stance its pretty asinine to find a company that wont flaunt the fact that a product they make is domestic made. Especially in a poor economy.

If it isnt clearly marked on the package or product there is most likely a reason for it.
 
Last edited:

catfish

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2010
Messages
360
Location
Australia
sometimes they list the COO on just the packaging and not the tool
if there is no coo on either the packaging or tool they are trying to hide something
 
OP
B

Bull

Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
16,189
Location
MA
Whoah whoah whoah!! This is not to fan the flames of the infamous F80/S80 Snap-on ratchet stamping war. You all should know, I'm too poor of a ***** to rock Snap-on; I rock Blackhawk.

The tool in question is a Blackhawk item.

I saw on Grainger that it said the COO was "subject to change" but what does that mean? If it hasn't been changed on the website, then I assume the shown item corresponds to the data they have currently entered, no?
 

toolmaker1

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
533
Location
Northwest Pa
Well my 1/4" Blackhawk ratchet has no coo on it so im guessing it is taiwan but on the bright side it's built like a tank:thumbup:
 

Skin

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
11,713
Location
Boston
if its a ratchet or wrench or something, anything, large enough to get stamped USA, and it isnt, i'd be leary.

SO has stopped marking a lot more products than just a couple ratchets :). They're a complete oddball in being ashamed of the USA stamp, hence why i mentioned it.
 

Hiball

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
14,027
Location
Missery
I'm looking at a tool that has no "USA" stamping. I always assume no stamp means no USA. The seller did not know anything about it. I found the tool on Grainger's website, and they claim the COO is USA. What is your experience in this area? Are COO statements from places like Grainger reliable?

IMO After the Mac/Stanley Debacle It would not be wise to "Knowingly" Give False information to Consumers in regards to the COO of there Products. In Graingers Case where they are strictly a Retailer i would suspect they information is Limited in regards to COO and they are relaying what they are told by the Supplier or the Speed of there IT Department.

Why would a USA made tool not bar the stamp? :headscrat

I really dont understand the Motive behind these tools companies and there Globalization movement. Maybe they have come to the conclusion that Other Markets are more financially stable (Lmao). Will the lack of USA stamp bring more customers to the Table? Dunno? All i know is all Business's are looking for that next Market and even Wright tools has a big speal on there Home page in regards to Globabization.
 

mtkst19

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
1,248
Location
blitzburgh pa
I saw on Grainger that it said the COO was "subject to change" but what does that mean? If it hasn't been changed on the website, then I assume the shown item corresponds to the data they have currently entered, no?

my take is this-- grainger probably has a decent warehouse. they probably have nos usa made stuff followed by the later import stuff. they simply don't know where the break would be. you order 100 pieces-- 1 might be made in usa until their inventory of old stock is depleted and the import is substituted. or you may end up with 99 usa pieces and 1 import.

see what i mean? that's my take.
 

toolnut

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
755
Location
Lockport,NY
My personal feeling on this is that if they can't put the USA stamp on any item than it is not 100% made here. Most products like automotive parts are not made in this country and our car lines are just assembled here. Most tools follow the same lines and are manufactured somewhere else and are sold here with a warranty and a smile and friendly service. Remember this is a global economy now and we are a service industry.
 

t100

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
6,101
stamps are cheap, and they can be made to mark on very very small things.
 

otis66

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2010
Messages
1,875
I'm looking at a tool that has no "USA" stamping. I always assume no stamp means no USA. The seller did not know anything about it. I found the tool on Grainger's website, and they claim the COO is USA. What is your experience in this area? Are COO statements from places like Grainger reliable? Why would a USA made tool not bear the stamp? :headscrat

If a tool is not stamped USA then it is not made in the USA.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

plinker

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
4,286
Location
Northern Wi
Probably Malaysia or china

(My Bosch PS-20 driver was made in Malaysia, but after taking it apart (problem w/ it) the motor has a nice china sticker on it.)
 

oldtools

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
2,706
Remember even SO website list incorrect COO. I have a Blackhawk ratchet with no COO, so I assume it must be Taiwan or China. It is still high quality though. My position is, if no "USA" stamp, not made in US.
 

OldHarley

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
19

Fedwrench

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
14,952
Location
Valley of the sun
To me it's an insult not to put USA on the tool in order to not offend foriegn buyers. What a crock anyway, like foriegn buyers wouldn't know where the name comes from.:wtf:
As for Blackhawk, their tools have been in transition from being only US made to being made in Taiwan as part of the Stanley empire for at least a couple of years now. I think the Spark plug ratchet in the Ebay link is made in Taiwan especially since, I believe it has the black triwing direction switch.
Proto and Mac (also Stanley brands) are selling Blackhawk as their lower priced alternative brand.
There are probably tons of older US made Blackhawk tools floating around on Ebay and still laying around on shhelves in some industrial supply chains. However, current Blackhawk tools are made in Taiwan, just look on the boxes of the new stuff at the fine print.:bounce:
My standard is that if I don't see the three little letters USA on a tool, it wasn't made here. It doesn't make the tool bad. I'll probably still buy the tool if I want it.
I think it's all part of a conditioning program to get you to only care about the brand name and not where it's made. That way, one day when profits need to be raised, the tool without USA on it but, was still made in the USA can quietly be made in the PRC or the ROC to boost corporate earnings and no one will know. Just my opinion, your results may vary.:beer:
 

mrholeshot

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
8,043
Really? For you to make such a blanket statement, you must be employed at a fairly high level with a major tool manufacturer.

I wouldn't say that you would have to be employed with a tool manafactuer to know this. If Snap-On could put USA on they would. No matter where the internals or the ratchet comes from it still seems to be an excellant ratchet. It would just be nice if Snap-On would just be open about whatever parts arn't USA made. They didn't change to tooling for nothing. Either it isn't allowed to be there or they are having trouble selling to terrorist.
 

BOONEY7750

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
147
Turning into a battle agian, I am new to the top shelf tools, but I can see the issues with the Snap-On stuff, I try to buy USA when I can, and sometimes I spend more time trying to figure out where there stuff is made than I should need too.
 

chadster1

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
4,023
Location
Terrell, Texas
I wouldn't say that you would have to be employed with a tool manafactuer to know this. If Snap-On could put USA on they would.

You know this? You have proof? I am just curious, which product manager did you get your information from? Or, did you happen to talk to one of the corporate officers? I am looking for names. You seem to be in the know, exactly which one of the internal parts is not made in the USA? Since you seem to know, where exactly are they made? Since you know this, you should be filing a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission since all the packaging and related product documentation state that the ratchets are made in the USA.
 
OP
B

Bull

Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
16,189
Location
MA
Well, the purpose of my thread was to help me make a purchasing decision about a Blackhawk tool; looks like this is being taken in another direction, though.

My mistake.
 

otis66

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2010
Messages
1,875
I said before and I'll say it again. I WILL NOT BUY ANY SNAP ON TOOLS NOT STAMPED "USA".
IF IT'S NOT STAMPED USA THEN IT IS NOT MADE IN USA.:shocking:
 

otis66

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2010
Messages
1,875
Don't trust a suppliers COO I have a Bosch grinder that has a label from Fastenal that says "Made in USA" and it wasn't.

Sounds like someone took the USA sticker off of the box and stuck it on the tool. If it's not stamped USA...........:bounce:
 

mrholeshot

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
8,043
You know this? You have proof? I am just curious, which product manager did you get your information from? Or, did you happen to talk to one of the corporate officers? I am looking for names. You seem to be in the know, exactly which one of the internal parts is not made in the USA? Since you seem to know, where exactly are they made? Since you know this, you should be filing a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission since all the packaging and related product documentation state that the ratchets are made in the USA.

Do you have proof the internals are made in the USA?? Which corporate officer can verify it's USA inside. They took USA off to avoid lawsuits so thats a no go. Thats CYA for Snap-On. Like I said, Great ratchet but Snap-On should either put USA on or be up front and which parts are made where. For what they charge you would think that would be the least they could do.
 

Hiball

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
14,027
Location
Missery
Its not even worth it Chad... It doesnt matter that Yourself, Shaun, Dave (Georigia Hybrid, Who went to the Convention and spoke with actual Employees) and the 50 people who sent Emails to Snapon.com Customer service have verified that they are made in the States. Im not a fan of the missing USA stamp but with the liability issues that face companies that blatently Lie about COO i cant fathom that they would continue to Lie to American Consumers. As much as i would like to see the USA stamp, The facts are that its a Damn fine Product and the Companies warranty is First Rate. If it bothers you that much, Dont Purchase the Tools.. Plain and Simple, God knows there are plenty of Non-Usa stamped tools to pick from.
 

Hammer1963

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
2,048
Location
Kentucky
As a person who has worked in both the manfacturing of tools and as a Tech in both the Body and Mechanical repair side of this issue, I can provide a unique persceptive on this subject. It doesn't mean my opinion is any better than someone elses, but it is a view most people haven't experienced.

An automobile has a parts country of origin percentage listed on its build sheet. We are talking about a product that has thousands of parts and the manufacturer has a liablility to disclose that information to the public via a mandate by the D.O.T.

On the other hand, a tool manufacturer has no liability for such a disclosure on the tool itself. If you check closely somewhere on the packaging, you will find the C.O.O. I have had tools that have a disclosure like the following: Forged and assembled in USA with globally sourced parts.

In most cases a manufacturer may not exclusively produce a tool in one facility to supply said tool world wide. Therefor the same exact tool may be produced in various locations throughout the world and may be shipped to wherever the tool is needed at a given time. That doesn't mean that a tool is not produced in the USA, it may just mean that 100% of the tool may not be of USA origin.

I have Snap-on sockets made in the USA, Brazil and Sweden. These tools were obtained from an individual who was stationed in multiple countries across the world during his tenure in the Armed Forces. I also have Matco tools with the same situation.

Lets face it, as one who left the Tool & Die profession 20 years ago after 15 years of being in the field, I saw the writing on the wall in the late 80's. As a whole, the USA and Japan in particular, have priced themselves from a labor stand point to a situation that these companies must pick and choose what tools they will produce exclusively in the USA and what tools they will have manufactured elsewhere.

If you look at Snap-on, Matco and Cornwell, you'll notice that the majority of their hardline tools are of USA origin. Those are the tools that the average Tech uses on a daily basis. Sure, Matco has Witte screwdrivers from Germany and Snap-on has several Spanish made tools today and most people do not have a problem with that. It only seems to be tools that come from an Asian source other than Japan, that some people have the objection to.

Truth is, the Taiwanese tool industry has become a formidable producer of quality tools. That's just the facts. I will not say the same for mainland Chinese tools.

We all want the USA to prosper, but at the end of that pay period, we the Techs want our paychecks to reflect that same prosperous look. When I can, I do purchase made in the USA tools and this comes from a guy who makes 90% of his earnings from German, Japanese and other imported vehicles.

If I said I was only open to working on USA built cars with USA built tools, I'm afraid I would be on the NON prosperous side of the story, due to what my shop happens to specialize in.

Buy the best tools you can reguardless of its origin. Your job may depend on it.
 

W650Mike

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
1,093
Location
North Central Texas
COO marking is not required for products manufactured and sold in the USA – optional, but not required.

One can only hope that domestic manufacturers would have the pride to do so.
 

kc-steve

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
4,240
Location
Kansas City
. . . Lets face it, as one who left the Tool & Die profession 20 years ago after 15 years of being in the field, I saw the writing on the wall in the late 80's. As a whole, the USA and Japan in particular, have priced themselves from a labor stand point to a situation that these companies must pick and choose what tools they will produce exclusively in the USA and what tools they will have manufactured elsewhere.

. . . Truth is, the Taiwanese tool industry has become a formidable producer of quality tools. That's just the facts. I will not say the same for mainland Chinese tools.

We all want the USA to prosper, but at the end of that pay period, we the Techs want our paychecks to reflect that same prosperous look. When I can, I do purchase made in the USA tools and this comes from a guy who makes 90% of his earnings from German, Japanese and other imported vehicles.

If I said I was only open to working on USA built cars with USA built tools, I'm afraid I would be on the NON prosperous side of the story, due to what my shop happens to specialize in.

Buy the best tools you can reguardless of its origin. Your job may depend on it.

Well said "hammer." Our labor costs are just too high to compete in a global market, and there is no turning back now.

HOWEVER, that being said, I GENERALLY won't buy a tool that doesn't say "made in the USA" because when I eventually sell it to others down the road, then I want to get top dollar for it on resale value. And there are still too many people that won't buy it without the USA.

Steve
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom