benjamintmiller
Well-known member
All steels have approximately the same resistance to bending and twisting, regardless of carbon content.
Here is a chart with some common Young's Modulii (A measure of elasticity, i.e. bending and twisting).
Uses for bedframes
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All steels have approximately the same resistance to bending and twisting, regardless of carbon content.
Here is a chart with some common Young's Modulii (A measure of elasticity, i.e. bending and twisting).
raf0419
Well-known member
Nice!
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SteveH-CO
Well-known member
I used a piece of bed frame to reinforce the front box-edge on a pickup bed trailer made from a Mazda pickup.
Japanese pickups (and most others) have a very weak front edge to the box, so beefing it up with a bed frame angle (tediously drilled, as noted above) made the front edge of the pickup bed much less likely to buckle. It also hid existing damage.
Japanese pickups (and most others) have a very weak front edge to the box, so beefing it up with a bed frame angle (tediously drilled, as noted above) made the front edge of the pickup bed much less likely to buckle. It also hid existing damage.
R.Anderson
Well-known member
I have had no problems with welding high carbon bed frame steel and far as I know not one of those welds have failed me yet. If I get bored I may have to weld some up for fun and bend test em and with that I don't recall ever trying to drill holes in the stuff so I see a good use for some cheap HF drill bits.
Here is a mill that makes angle steel for bed frames:
http://www.jssteel.com
Their bed frame steel is rerolled from railroad rails.
Chemical & Mechanical Properties of Rail Steel Angles:
http://www.jssteel.com/content/chemical-mechanical-properties-rail-steel-angles
Here is a mill that makes angle steel for bed frames:
http://www.jssteel.com
Their bed frame steel is rerolled from railroad rails.
Chemical & Mechanical Properties of Rail Steel Angles:
http://www.jssteel.com/content/chemical-mechanical-properties-rail-steel-angles
Will S.
Well-known member
No sir, that is not correct. Hardening metal, (called tempering), is accomplished by heating metal to a high temperature, and keeping it at that high temp for at least a certain minimum time period (many minutes), then plunging it into cool (room temp) water bath. The SUDDEN cooling is what hardens the metal.
Softening (annealing) metal is done by heating the metal to a high temperature, then allowing it to slowly cool.
R.Anderson
Well-known member
This is not correct. Tempering is not hardening, hardening and tempering are two different processes.
Tempering is done after hardening. Tempering is heating to or under the lower transformation temperature/lower critical temperature and then cooling, making the metal a little more ductile not harder/brittle.
Heating the alloy above the upper transformation temperature and quenching hardens.
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benjamintmiller
Well-known member
Sudden cooling will certainly cause metal to harden more than slower cooling, but metal that is arc welded can cool pretty darn fast. My experience welding bed frames is that the heat affected zone from the weld becomes hardened, making it very brittle. That is where it will eventually crack.
One of the reasons it is so difficult to weld cast iron is because the high carbon content causes localized hardening around the weld, and then this hardened area cracks as the weld cools and shrinks. It is for this reason that many welders will apply some combination of preheat, slow cooling in a sand bed, nickel alloys (with more ductility), or brazing, which keeps the metal from passing the critical temperature.
Your mileage of course may vary welding bed frames, because there is no standard for their composition. I've always assumed they're made with whatever is left over in the pot.
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benjamintmiller
Well-known member
Rail steel is indeed stronger than mild steel generally, but it should be noted that it still has the same modulus of elasticity. As a result, it will bend just as much as mild steel in a given application.
It does have a higher tensile strength, so it can bend more before breaking. It is also harder, so all those wheels rolling along it will damage it less.
R.Anderson
Well-known member
You must be on a "modulus of elasticity" kick lol
I only posted that so people can see where some bed frame steel is made and of what.
Edit/post don't know why "bed frame" is underlined and is should not be far as I can tell.
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benjamintmiller
Well-known member
Well, someone explicitly mentioned twisting earlier, that's why.
I've noticed the underlining too on computers without adblock. I think it comes from some method of generating revenue from the forum operators. I'll turn off adblock when websites stop doing things like this and use only nonintrusive, clearly marked ads.
TheEquineFencer
Well-known member
16 replies and not one person mentioned using a bedframe for banging the neighbors wife. What is this place turning into
LOL
When I finally get to building my workspace in the basement I have about 3-4 frames laying around that I plan to use to build the workbench. I will buy some good old fashioned hardened bits to turn blue some solid nuts and bolts and go from there. 
Will S.
Well-known member
OK, I said tempering, and could just as well have said hardening, but in any case, isn't tempering essentially the process I described?
Tempering, according to ehow:
http://www.wikihow.com/Harden-Steel or
http://www.ehow.com/about_5627827_definition-tempered-steel.html
Wiki:
http://www.wikihow.com/Temper-Metal
BTW, I am not looking to **** heads with anyone. Just a friendly discussion. I posted my question simply because I noticed that bedframe steel does seem to be 'harder', and less friendly to weld. I will try the annealing process first, and see if it welds better than a piece from the same rail, untreated.
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taumac
Well-known member
Here's a welding table I built with mostly free bed frame.
R.Anderson
Well-known member
The processes are similar in a way but are not the same at all. After looking at the links you posted I see why you think that. What you describe here is hardening not tempering:
"Hardening metal, (called tempering), is accomplished by heating metal to a high temperature, and keeping it at that high temp for at least a certain minimum time period (many minutes), then plunging it into cool (room temp) water bath. The SUDDEN cooling is what hardens the metal. "
The first link you posted does a good job describing the process.
http://www.wikihow.com/Harden-Steel
The second link *****, its confusing:
http://www.ehow.com/about_5627827_definition-tempered-steel.html
clip from the page:
"The main function of tempering something is to add strength to the material. Tempering is a technique involving heat treatment that is used to toughen steel. For steel to be tempered, it must be heated up to a specific temperature range and rapidly cooled by being submerged into water. Steel can only be tempered if high amounts of carbon are already present within the steel."
The words strength and toughen are not a very good way to describe metal.
here is why
Reducing the hardness is accompanied by an increase in ductility and vise versa. The more ductile the more malleable and flexible the alloy gets.
The greater the hardness the more brittle and ridged the alloy gets.
The third kinda ***** too:
http://www.wikihow.com/Temper-Metal
It shows a phase diagram and does a piss poor job describing how to use it, if that. To further throw things off it shows a picture of someone working the metal with a hammer lol not sure why it show that.
Clipped from the page:
“Some pieces are very fragile and some applications need a very hard metal piece like a bicycle’s axle or gears or a hammer or simply a screw driver. Tempering consists of heating the steel to a specific temperature (below its hardening temperature), holding it at that temperature for the required length of time, and then cooling it, usually instill air. The resultant strength, hardness, and ductility depend on the temperature to which the steel was heated during the tempering process. I‘m going to show how to do this tempering. It's very simple and you will have a good results.”
Poor way to write this part. With “(below its hardening temperature)” the writer is meaning the lower transformation level/temperature. If your not familiar with isothermal transformation diagrams and metallurgy this can sound like a hardening heat treatment. I actually missed that when I first read the page and thought this page was describing hardening and nothing about tempering. Darn near made myself sound like a ******* and being up since 4am is not helping
Ok, lets see if I can do better at explaining it now.
Tempering drawsback the hardness making the metal less brittle and a little more ductile and reducing the stress in the metal. Lets say a knife blade, you want it flexible so it will not break but you also want it hard to hold an edge. If you harden a good blade to the max it will be brittle and can shatter like glass. So tempering removes some of the hardness and in turn increasing the flexibility of the blade and now you have a blade that will hold an edge and be flexible at the same time.
Ok, now one would ask/say just harden it to that point, you can't.
The only way to harden the metal is to heat the metal above the upper transformation level/temperature then quench, but doing this the ductile/flexible goes away. To get part of this back a tempering heat treatment is done, heating the metal to/under the lower transformation level/temperature and then quenched again or allowed to cool slow what ever the heat treatment calls for.
Hope this helps and not further confuse.
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Will S.
Well-known member
R.Anderson, excellent explanation, and one that actually took me back many many years. I'm old, and have forgotten some things. When I was a kid, I use to watch my father make things, and he would always tell me why he did this, or that. He made tools, and told me about annealing, tempering and that all important temperature point that had to be exceeded, or not, depending on the goal. I don't know how he knew this stuff, as he never went to school for it. But what I saw him make, was amazing.
So I knew a little bit about it, and have used that knowledge and the tanks and torches he has left me, to work some of my own projects. I should have left the 'splaining' to someone else. So thanks for clarification.
So I knew a little bit about it, and have used that knowledge and the tanks and torches he has left me, to work some of my own projects. I should have left the 'splaining' to someone else. So thanks for clarification.
Figured it out. My welds were cold and high. The Lincoln 140HD was given to me bottle and all by my neighbor who moved out. he was a welder by trade so I assumed the unit was setup. After watching some youtube videos i suspected my polarity was reversed for MIG. Went to the garage and sure enough it was set up for flux core. Set it up right and immediately made some beautiful welds. Thanks for the criticism. It made me question my welds...and rightfully so.
gobeer net
Well-known member
Bed frame weld cart. Already had the box. $3.00 for bolts for the casters.
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