Using a thread file
- Thread starter bchee
- Start date
Excellent article. He makes a good case on replacement cost vs thread file cost. Most folks have a tap set to chase internal threads, and some have the split dies that can be used to chase external threads.
When you think about it, why don't they just sell thread files with tap/die kits? It's the missing piece!
When you think about it, why don't they just sell thread files with tap/die kits? It's the missing piece!
Toolhorder
Well-known member
I use them once in awhile. I got one as an appretice on the advice of my mentor and love them. They work really good when you have messed up threads.
Very good article. I have the KD ones, but do not really need to use them all that often.
On a side note, I know the Snap-on set that they appear to not sell anymore comes with a rubber handle. Does anyone know if you can purchase the rubber handle separately?
On a side note, I know the Snap-on set that they appear to not sell anymore comes with a rubber handle. Does anyone know if you can purchase the rubber handle separately?
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
They're handier than a third thumb and I've used them for decades. I've had a lot of people make fun of them over the years, until I point out that they work on left handed threads and odd ball extra fine threaded stuff like a 20 thread per inch 1 inch diameter bolt or stud. That generally shuts them up.
The two standard and one metric file are handy for a truck kit too. The three of them rolled together don't take up much more room than a SO ratcheting screwdriver and can fix a lot of ills.
Another "must have" if you can find them as cheap surplus, is the split dies. You don't even want to price them new retail. The guy that originally thought these up deserves a medal though.
I lucked into two new unused Govt surplus Four Star split die sets a few years ago for next to nothing. The standard thread S2089 and the metric thread S1991M. Handy handy handy.
If someone is going to pickup a set of the thread files, they should practice with them BEFORE they need to use them. Take a scrap bolt smack it around a little with a hammer to ****** up the threads, clamp in in the vise and practice. Look at what you're going with a magnifying glass. I find that bigger threads are easier than small threads. A dinged up piece of all thread will give you days of fun. You can get pretty damn good with these a lost faster than you think if you practice.
Remember, your goal isn't to try to restore the peak of the thread, it's to remove the displaced metal in the valleys and on the sides of the peaks.
WoD
Last edited:
hofferwood
Well-known member
These cover most bases
Chuck
Chuck
gluckmysock
Well-known member
I have 3 of these files and LOVE Them.. They are perfect for fixing axle studs that get smacked with a 10 pound sledge. I have also repaired front spindle threads, considering some of these can be upwards of 2" in diameter. Makes it hard to find die that size.
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
I'm going to try this.
In another thread someone said to go in the direction of the helix, not 90 degrees, but in the article it appears to be perpendicular to the bolt. So which is right?
You have to follow the direction of the threads. With a little downward force on the file and starting the stroke on the undamaged portion of the thread before the damaged area, it's almost self guiding, It's hard to explain, but you'll understand when you try it.
You roll the file forward as it travels from the undamaged area onto the damaged are as you make the stroke. I really can't think of a analogy for this movement, I'm sorry. I think that once you try some practice with it, you'll understand.
Don't get in a hurry, it isn't a race. And take a look at the results after each couple of strokes.
Maybe one of the other guys can describe this better.
WoD
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
That was the same set, yes. I ordered one basically for the pipe thread pitch one, I have the other three. I didn't even know that it existed until a couple of days ago. The Amazon price for the entire kit was basically the same price as just the one I didn't have so that was a no brainer.
I have compared the ones that I've owned over the years and noticed very little difference between brands. The current ones I have are Snap-on. Other than the name stamping, they appear identical to the Mac ones, the Nicholson ones, the old Napa ones, some no name one, etc.
I suspect that it's kind of like the old flat riveted together laminated ratcheting double box end wrenches. One company makes all of them for everybody. My guess would be probably Nicholson.
WoD
garfunkle24
Well-known member
Thread files are handy for spindles and such but are not the best option on regular, smaller hardware. For this, the 'thread restoring' dies from Kastar are better than a thread file or cutting dies, as they don't unnecessarily remove material.
Also, if someone can't figure out how to use a thread file in less than about 3 seconds, I hope they're not working on anything of mine
I have both, but if I had to choose one, I'd rather spend the money on some good needle files. If used carefully you can fix anything the thread file will and also use them for a ton of other stuff. Just my $0.02.
Also, if someone can't figure out how to use a thread file in less than about 3 seconds, I hope they're not working on anything of mine
I have both, but if I had to choose one, I'd rather spend the money on some good needle files. If used carefully you can fix anything the thread file will and also use them for a ton of other stuff. Just my $0.02.
Last edited:
Realize that most threads are cut at a 60 degree angle so a triangle file will also fit in the thread if you have nothing better. I have thread files and dies but on occasion find the triangle file the best solution.
lg
no neat sig line
lg
no neat sig line
ZRX61
Well-known member
Used one yesterday to clean up a thread & then used a thread restorer to finish the job
Keep in mind that thread restoring dies cannot be used if it's the first or second thread that is ruined. It is often necessary to clean up the end of a fastener with a thread file to get it to the point that you can then run a die down it.
This is partially why I'm so interested in the external thread repairing tool from NES.
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
Yes, it's like a standard file. One direction only. Don't run it backwards, it will dull it. Oil it before you put it away too. Rust will dull the hell out of a file.
WoD
garfunkle24
Well-known member
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
Yep, that's another useful function that the people that make fun of the thread files overlook.
WoD
garfunkle24
Well-known member
Files should be loaded with chalk for use and wiped down with any kind of oil really to minimize corrosion. Desiccant in your file drawer is a good idea also, as the edges dull fairly quickly with any corrosion.
Thread files aren't as fussy and you wouldn't use chalk, but a little oil wouldn't hurt.
Thread files aren't as fussy and you wouldn't use chalk, but a little oil wouldn't hurt.
garfunkle24
Well-known member
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
AFT, hydraulic fluid, engine oil, etc. Whatever is handy and reasonably inexpensive.
I don't like using penetrating oils for long term rust protection. I've had problems with them evaporating and leaving the surface pretty much bone dry after a couple of months or so. The Wally World Tech something seems to be real bad about this. Ditto for the aerosol Rem-Oil. Both work fine for me as a lubricant but not as a preservative.
WoD
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
Needle files do that too
You're right, that's another thing you can't have enough of.
Another thing a lot of people do that's really bad on files is to just toss them all into a drawer. Files rubbing against other files will dull the hell out of them really quick.
One of the things I did a few years ago was to take a bunch of 2x8" lumber scraps and groove them maybe 3/8" deep spaced about an inch apart, on the radial arm saw. Then I stand the files on edge in the grooves with the handles pointing in alternating directions.
Files can get real expensive, real quick if you don't take care of them.
WoD
As was mentioned earlier, a common triangular file can be used to clean up a damaged thread, of you haven't a suitable thread file.
There is a 'catch', tho. The standard common triangular files will have a radius at the corners. This radius is a good feature when the file is used for its historically more usual purpose, sharpening the teeth of hand saws, as it forms the correct radius in the root of the tooth.
For use in touching-up damaged threads, tho, the triangular file won't work correctly until you grind one side completely flat, so that sharp corners are formed with the other two sides. The sharp corner allows the file to work down to the minor diameter of the thread. (this is an old toolmakers' trick from......well, I don't know when......maybe the 1860's or thereabouts??)
The generality of American and German thread standards are 60deg, so keeping one flat of the file parallel to the OD of the part keeps the file at the correct angle to remove the material needed to allow the mating part to fit.....but.....British Whitworth and BSF threads are 55deg, and with a slight radius at the root, so you must take a bit of care to preserve the angle and, if needs be, slightly radius the corner of the file to match the root radius of the thread pitch you are working.
Another toolmakers' trick, from 'ancient history' is a 'quick fix' for minor scarring on bolt or capscrew threads.
Simply attempt to wind a nut of the same thread onto the bolt as far as it can be wrenched with reasonable pressure. Then place one flat of the nut on an anvil or bench-block and strike the top flat briskly with a hammer. Rotate the bolt, and strike each flat of the nut, in turn. The nut will be flexible enough to act as a cold-forming tool, to form the displaced metal back into alignment. Often, you can restore surprisingly badly scarred bolt threads this way, running the nut as far as it will readily go, striking the nut, then running it another partial turn, striking again, and so on.
cheers
Carla
cheers
Carla
There is a 'catch', tho. The standard common triangular files will have a radius at the corners. This radius is a good feature when the file is used for its historically more usual purpose, sharpening the teeth of hand saws, as it forms the correct radius in the root of the tooth.
For use in touching-up damaged threads, tho, the triangular file won't work correctly until you grind one side completely flat, so that sharp corners are formed with the other two sides. The sharp corner allows the file to work down to the minor diameter of the thread. (this is an old toolmakers' trick from......well, I don't know when......maybe the 1860's or thereabouts??)
The generality of American and German thread standards are 60deg, so keeping one flat of the file parallel to the OD of the part keeps the file at the correct angle to remove the material needed to allow the mating part to fit.....but.....British Whitworth and BSF threads are 55deg, and with a slight radius at the root, so you must take a bit of care to preserve the angle and, if needs be, slightly radius the corner of the file to match the root radius of the thread pitch you are working.
Another toolmakers' trick, from 'ancient history' is a 'quick fix' for minor scarring on bolt or capscrew threads.
Simply attempt to wind a nut of the same thread onto the bolt as far as it can be wrenched with reasonable pressure. Then place one flat of the nut on an anvil or bench-block and strike the top flat briskly with a hammer. Rotate the bolt, and strike each flat of the nut, in turn. The nut will be flexible enough to act as a cold-forming tool, to form the displaced metal back into alignment. Often, you can restore surprisingly badly scarred bolt threads this way, running the nut as far as it will readily go, striking the nut, then running it another partial turn, striking again, and so on.
cheers
Carla
cheers
Carla
Catalyze
Well-known member
Carla - I just learned more about threads in 2 mins than I knew in previous years....thanks!
Craig
Craig
Another little trick I have used in this similar situation it to take a triangle file and cut notches into the nut perpendicular to the threads. It will look just like a thread chaser when you are done, although obviously it wont be as tough but I thas saved my skin a time or 2
you push the tool down the length. thats the direction it cuts
Steevo
Well-known member
My set is ISO and Whiworth, internal and external files.
They have save many a threaded component over the years.
They have save many a threaded component over the years.