Using a welder as a generator?

[grantw]

I wanted to ask the question to the forum here, as some of you have decent sized gensets for your homes. Part of my new build, I have a generator circuit (and lockout) installed in my main panel. I would like to get a 7.5kW -10kW generator to run the house in any extended power loss situation. I have been keeping an eye on the used generator market and have been disappointed in the second-hand market... Until I stumbled across gas and diesel powered welders. I found a Miller Trailblazer 325D "near" me for ~$1600, and it's on a trailer!

Meanwhile, good condition generators in the 7.5kW-10kW range near me are going for about $2000-$3000 and those don't even have a trailer.

What is the opinion on using a welder as a generator?

 

[Norcal]

I have a Miller Bobcat 225NT 8 KW, Welder was going to buy a 5 KW Honda but for a few bucks more got a welder & 8 KW, the transfer switch is on the shop since that is where the water pump is, do not need power for heat & hot water but no power means no water. Newer models are 10 KW.

 

[rsanter]

I have made this sugestion to friends that have looked for generators.
Just look up the specifications on the unit and be sure it will do what you want. Other than that if you are leaving it on the trailer I would make a way to secure it

 

[MoonRise]

You are not using a welder as a generator.

You are using a welder with a built-in generator function.

That engine-drive welder lists a 10kW continuous generator capability and a 12.5 kW surge/peak capability.

At a full 10 kW electrical output, it will drink diesel at a rated 1.25 gallons/hour. With the 12 gallon fuel tank, that gets you about 10 hours of run time at full rated electrical output. The fuel consumption chart shows that it will drink fuel at 1 gallon/hour at 7 kW output.

It weighs 620 lbs and is a bit loud at 81 dB at 23 ft at full electrical output and full engine speed of 3600 rpm. It is a liquid cooled diesel, so it will smell and sound like a diesel engine.

Check the engine run time and maintenance records. If the engine has been 'abused', unless you are a diesel mechanic and want to take on a 'project', pass on the unit.

If it fits your needs, go for it!

(ps: Brand new, a Trailblazer 325D goes for about $9500 all by itself for the 'base' unit. Check the unit carefully, as that price seems rather low. Unless the machine is clapped out, in which case the price is too high! LOL )

Miller vid about the 325D:

 

[Lelandwelds]

You are not using a welder as a generator.

You are using a welder with a built-in generator function.

That engine-drive welder lists a 10kW continuous generator capability and a 12.5 kW surge/peak capability.

At a full 10 kW electrical output, it will drink diesel at a rated 1.25 gallons/hour. With the 12 gallon fuel tank, that gets you about 10 hours of run time at full rated electrical output. The fuel consumption chart shows that it will drink fuel at 1 gallon/hour at 7 kW output.

It weighs 620 lbs and is a bit loud at 81 dB at 23 ft at full electrical output and full engine speed of 3600 rpm. It is a liquid cooled diesel, so it will smell and sound like a diesel engine.

Check the engine run time and maintenance records. If the engine has been 'abused', unless you are a diesel mechanic and want to take on a 'project', pass on the unit.

If it fits your needs, go for it!

(ps: Brand new, a Trailblazer 325D goes for about $9500 all by itself for the 'base' unit. Check the unit carefully, as that price seems rather low. Unless the machine is clapped out, in which case the price is too high! LOL )

Miller vid about the 325D:

Trailblazers are awesome machines. They are 4 pole rotors spun @3600 rpm MAX. If the load is less, the engine throttles down to maybe just above idle. The inverter gives 60 hz power at any speed. I believe the weld winding is 3 phase but the separate power winding was single. The inverter design is close to the XMT 304 and perfected 15 years ago, maybe?

I think the electronics are in a sealed box. Kubota used to be the most common engine. ITW routinely specs the extreme duty options. Phone the factory with serial # to check for theft.

That price is about half what I see locally. The factory trailer is a joke. Could be an excellent choice. Could be a dog unless you want to buy three of the same vintage and build into two.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Personally, I dont like idle or underworked diesels. I really prefer 1800 rpm diesels. This will not have the electronics for auto running so you must charge battery, run engine under load 1 or 2 times a month, change oil etc.

Repairs will be expensive and out of pocket.

Solar is my choice.

 

[Dundertaker]

EFI Trailblazer is the way to go...you can weld and generate for the same price as a generator that can't weld. I've had one since 2011 and if you keep the battery taken care of it will fire right up even after sitting for months. Throws 13k watts+. They can be had for $5-6k......or less used. Easy to maintain, clean power that won't fry your electronics. Just watch a few YouTube videos for details. Diesel is a bit over kill since you're talking about a few hours a day running....no one typically runs them 24 hours a day for power outages. They will run variable up and down...and for most household 110v it won't even come off idle when plugged in directly.

Bonus is you have a bad *** welder to boot!

 

[creativecars]

I bought a Lincoln Eagle 10,000 225A for just that purpose. It has saved us a few times we lost power.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lincoln...-kW-Peak-AC-Generator-Power-K2343-3/202339557

 

[grantw]

Thanks guys for the input. $1600 does seem a bit low for something that retails up in the $10k range. I'm going to keep looking in to this and keeping my eye on the market. Also, never though of it, thanks for the tip on checking serial numbers.

Plus with a welder, I'll get extra jeep guy points if I bolt it to my trailer.

 

[lis2323]

Power outages have been rare in my area. However I use a Lincoln 305 G welder for emergency backup. It's been two years now since building the skid for it and haven't had to use it.

It can be moved width OR lengthwise with a forklift or widthwise with a pallet jack in my shop or garage.

 

[Lelandwelds]

The Trailblazer has the best arc of any machine I have ever used. (The hybrid pulsed tigs like the Aerowave were a bit better but I honestly couldn't get thru the manual and use all the features.) They have been constantly improved since the 1980s. In case you wondered, I am a fan.

This is probably the last post in this thread so I am going long and getting it all out. It wouldnt be my first choice for standby power. First, decide how long you will be without power.

If hours or days, I would pick a string of industrial 2V lead cells with an undersized solar panel array and an inverter. If maintained, you should get a 15 to 20 year life.

If days or weeks, I would choose the above and add a NG or propane generator with the sonorized enclosure. You run this when powering your largest loads during the daytime. Excess power production recharges the battery.

If weeks or months, I like the above with a greatly enlarged solar array. There is a company in Florida (some years anyway) which makes a single cylinder NG continuously variable speed belt driven air conditioner. A company in Austin makes mini water cooling towers to match up with it.

If months or years, you are best served by a tiny house or an earth ship. Lister 5 hp electric genny becomes an option if you like to tinker. You have also decided to be forever single and the guy locals whisper about.

The most important decision is eliminating all but vital, critical loads. Buy only LED lighting, electric HVAC and dryers are a non starter, phantom loads must be switched, specialty extreme efficiency refrigeration and washing machines are needed, and you need backups and alternates for energy. A pet doomsday or joining an environmental cult helps with long term commitment. It is most definitely a commitment. People in places where the power goes off each week choose things that arent electric.

I have chosen the "roughing it" or "camping" approach. I have a plunge pot, canned goods with manual opener, multiple lithium LED flashlights, rocket and Coleman stoves, blankets, books and a deck of cards, and an extensive t-shirt collection.

 

[Bretny]

Any 3600rpm engine makes for a poor generator. Drink fuel like its free and loud very loud. 10kw generators are alot cheaper than what your saying in my area. You can also find those tombstone welder for real cheap.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Power outages have been rare in my area. However I use a Lincoln 305 G welder for emergency backup. It's been two years now since building the skid for it and haven't had to use it.

It can be moved width OR lengthwise with a forklift or widthwise with a pallet jack in my shop or garage.

Nice skid!!

I am a fan of Twecotites and disconnects, too. I think I would add a tamper resist bolt or two. I have seen some companies use male/ female setups for every machine ( including air compressors, cement mixers, and tool chests) that swap out into every trailer and flat bed. The males on four corners let any fork spacing work from four directions. Down side (or up side with some hands) is you need a lifting eye and roll cage.

I think your forklift wants to be a crane when it grows up. Where did you get it?

Please start a thread and show some more items. I think you could rival the vise or workbench thread.

 

[tyme2par4]

I'm curious what kind of generators you were looking at that were $2000-3000 used for 7.5-10kW.
I paid like $750 for a brand new Troy-bilt 7kW.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Any 3600rpm engine makes for a poor generator. Drink fuel like its free and loud very loud. 10kw generators are alot cheaper than what your saying in my area. You can also find those tombstone welder for real cheap.

Not really, some oversquare engines are designed to rev. Kubota, Deutz, Catapiller, etc mfg an engine or two which work well. This one throttles down to around 1200 rpm for light loads. Real world fuel consumption can average out lower than 1 gph. It is pretty easy to build a masonary vented shed to keep the noise down and thieves out. "Peak" rating are used to exaggerate generator performance. This is a four pole with industrial components not a two pole. An extensive service network exists for this machine. This one is safe for sensitive electronics.

Tapped transformer welders are very hopelessly outclassed by this machine.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I'm curious what kind of generators you were looking at that were $2000-3000 used for 7.5-10kW.
I paid like $750 for a brand new Troy-bilt 7kW.

Easiest way to spot the different classes of generator is to look at net weight: 150 vs. 800 lb
The extra poundage gets a genny which can start a load 4 or 5 times larger than the same rating competitive machine. It buys an engine with twice the torque and much higher durability. It gets electronics safe output. Some, like the Trailblazer and the little Honda, have variable rpm for smaller electrical loads.

 

[lis2323]

Nice skid!!



I am a fan of Twecotites and disconnects, too. I think I would add a tamper resist bolt or two. I have seen some companies use male/ female setups for every machine ( including air compressors, cement mixers, and tool chests) that swap out into every trailer and flat bed. The males on four corners let any fork spacing work from four directions. Down side (or up side with some hands) is you need a lifting eye and roll cage.



I think your forklift wants to be a crane when it grows up. Where did you get it?



Please start a thread and show some more items. I think you could rival the vise or workbench thread.

Thanks, Lelanwelds.

That forklift pictured is a truck mount (piggyback) the same as you see on the back of Home Depot/Lowes straight trucks and trailers.

They're all terrain (3 wheel drive) and typically around 40HP. The best feature is the mast has a DOUBLE acting cylinder which enables DOWN pressure.

Also with the SLIDING mast you can use your hydraulics to accurately "nudge" assemblies into position instead of having to typically MOVE the machine..

Very handy around the shop. [emoji3]

To the OP: Sorry for the sidetrack.

 

[rlitman]

Easiest way to spot the different classes of generator is to look at net weight: 150 vs. 800 lb
The extra poundage gets a genny which can start a load 4 or 5 times larger than the same rating competitive machine. It buys an engine with twice the torque and much higher durability. It gets electronics safe output. Some, like the Trailblazer and the little Honda, have variable rpm for smaller electrical loads.

Well, not all of that weight is rotating mass, but yeah, there's something to be said for a heavier machine.

With modern inverter generators (that can vary the engine speed), EFI and common rail diesels on the market, a lot of the old school knowledge about what made for a reliable system has changed, but as a general rule, I'd say that a welder will still hold up better than a dedicated portable generator most times.

That being said, my house generator is a 5000W output Miller welder made in 1985 that is still running strong. However, for 5000W of output, the thing weighs almost 600lbs. I attribute some of its longevity to the fact that it runs at 1800 RPM, and is pressure lubricated. 3600 RPM splash lubricated engines are pretty much disposable in comparison.

The downsides to using a welder as a generator were spelled out above. The biggest one is the tank size. They're built around being refueled at each shift, so there is little call for a tank that can run it more than 10 hours. But since they generally have fuel pumps (as opposed to a lot of portable generators that are gravity fed), it is easy enough to fit an external tank (like an outboard tank) for extended runtimes.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Well, not all of that weight is rotating mass, but yeah, there's something to be said for a heavier machine.

With modern inverter generators (that can vary the engine speed), EFI and common rail diesels on the market, a lot of the old school knowledge about what made for a reliable system has changed, but as a general rule, I'd say that a welder will still hold up better than a dedicated portable generator most times.

That being said, my house generator is a 5000W output Miller welder made in 1985 that is still running strong. However, for 5000W of output, the thing weighs almost 600lbs. I attribute some of its longevity to the fact that it runs at 1800 RPM, and is pressure lubricated. 3600 RPM splash lubricated engines are pretty much disposable in comparison.

The downsides to using a welder as a generator were spelled out above. The biggest one is the tank size. They're built around being refueled at each shift, so there is little call for a tank that can run it more than 10 hours. But since they generally have fuel pumps (as opposed to a lot of portable generators that are gravity fed), it is easy enough to fit an external tank (like an outboard tank) for extended runtimes.

You must have an AEAD-200LE or Legend. Twin onan P216. 1800 rpm power. 3000 rpm weld. 100 hour oilchanges. Good machines. EPA killed that engine.

That one has a fuel pump but you still need to mount aux tank up high. That one used about .75 gal/hr. Most users just run their machines about two hours twice daily to keep refrigeration up. Noise gets old.

Recharging a big battery with an inverter to handle little loads makes living with a genny more lovable. The cheapies stall if you try to start one big load randomly. They are fine with lots of little loads or a big one you can ease into.

I lived without the grid for a few years. I appreciate modern conveniences more than most people.

 

[rlitman]

You must have an AEAD-200LE or Legend. Twin onan P216. 1800 rpm power. 3000 rpm weld. 100 hour oilchanges. Good machines. EPA killed that engine...

AEAD-200LE with an Onan B48M twin. Yep, 1800 RPM power, 3000 RPM weld, with the bigger muffler.

I have the exhaust routed through a sink drain elbow up into a piece of 4” vent with a rain cap. I loosely stuffed the space around the bottom of the vent stack with stainless pot scrubbers. It makes it quiet enough for me.

 

[sberry]

I have 4 portables but this little 6K will start a 5 hp motor. They are fuel greedy for standby power though. Also on a skid and when its got a 80 cf bottle on it self contained cut and weld skid. It was about the cheapest DC unit they made. Something went wrong with the genset although it still welds. It is a great little welder, nice crisp arc, perfect vert and overhead. I have SA200 too and for general work like this as good or better. Its got a small tank, when I was working it a couple times had 10 gallon I set on top of it.