Using rubber air hose to plumb shop..

[Kail]

I eyeball copper and steel pipe at home depot every once in a while, then I lay it out in my head and get a rough idea of the cost and the time to install.

Then I thought why not just use rubber air line.. cheap, rated for air obviously, bends easy.

My shop is my place of business, so the less time I have working on the shop the more time I can use making money working on customer cars.

I have seen the kits to plumb a garage at HF for around $80. But my shop is 40x40 with very high ceilings, i would have to buy extra line or 2 kits to cover it, plus the push type connectors, as reliable as they are in air ride and air brakes, can be somewhat troublesome during install if you don't get the cuts just right and so on.

So I bought a bunch of goodyear air line at HF and a bunch of connectors, T's and valves. So far I have enough material to cover my shop for much less money. I will need a fair amount of clamps to keep it neat. and I may buy some pipe ******* to do the drops so its a rigid place to connect.
(100' of 3/8 black airline was 39.99)

Any thoughts, anyone else use this method?

Reasons for not using:
Pipe - Price, install time
Copper - Price, install time and leaking lines make a mess because of the brazing.
PVC - obviously not safe, at least if an accident caused impact to one of the lines.

update on page 2 ( 6 months no issues)

 

[cheap bastard]

What sort of airflow do your tools require? Besides long runs of 3/8 hose causing lower airflow than larger piping, the sags can act as water traps. The result could be a lot of moisture at your tools. Your southern Ca. air may negate that, though.
Will your customers see your air system? Are they the type of customers that would know what they are seeing? If so, they may make assumptions that you're willing to take shortcuts on your own equipment.

 

[Grumpy365]

Your going to die and take out your entire family when it happens.

(I thought i would just get it out of the way now)

It will work for a while, but will it hold up, with pressure on the hose, for the long hall?

I don't know. Maybe.

 

[Kail]

What sort of airflow do your tools require? Besides long runs of 3/8 hose causing lower airflow than larger piping, the sags can act as water traps. The result could be a lot of moisture at your tools. Your southern Ca. air may negate that, though.
Will your customers see your air system? Are they the type of customers that would know what they are seeing? If so, they may make assumptions that you're willing to take shortcuts on your own equipment.

You bring up a good point with the sagging, I plan on running it tight because I would prefer a neat look. ( Sacramento is northern CA but the air is still dry)

I did consider the air volume, I mostly use it for drilling, sanding, grinding. The 2 tools I would worry about is the large DA and planishing hammer. But how would this differ from using a long air hose like I have setup now (which I roll up a couple times a day.. ug) The only issue I see is running multiple tools at once, in which case I could upgrade to 1/2 air hose, and use the 3/8 for plug in use.

I build hot rods and my work speaks for its self, I doubt using rubber for shop plumbing is going to cause anyone to second guess what I do. I don't plan to loosely hang hose around the shop. When its done I am sure the install will look clean and professorial as it will be ran in the same manner as pipe.

 

[Kail]

Your going to die and take out your entire family when it happens.

(I thought i would just get it out of the way now)

It will work for a while, but will it hold up, with pressure on the hose, for the long hall?

I don't know. Maybe.

Well the working pressure is rated at 200psi and the burst pressure is rated at 800psi

as far as longevity, I have had some air hoses for many years that are plugged in all day, these hoses get stepped on, rolled up, caught under tires, tools, friends, as well as pulled through cars. I can only imagine that up on the wall would only lengthen its life. At the end of the day I shut off the compressor and pull the dump valve which lowers the pressure down to something like 60psi.

The only things that concerns me is, that with the changing of the seasons the hose may stretch and sag, I am going to try and fasten it with clamps as much as possible to combat this.


I should also mention I run a dryer at the compressor.


Thanks for the input so far, I want to make sure I cover my bases and get as many perspectives as possible. And I will post pictures when it is done.

 

[djd99]

So what happens when you have a blow out witch happens every so often, I've blew out several air hoses before, I think the best way to go is black pipe. If your dead set on using air line better make your runs on the outside of your walls so when a blowout does occur you can just replace that run. Don

 

[Kail]

So what happens when you have a blow out witch happens every so often, I've blew out several air hoses before, I think the best way to go is black pipe.

what would cause the blow-out, the only blowout I have had is because a hose was cut and the other was someones really lame repair.

plus in the event of a random blow out, it will be fastened securely to the wall, I turn off the main valve and repair in place.
And yeah they will be outside, I lease a commercial building and I don't really want to open up the walls

thanks for the suggestion but I want to try something different, I haven't yet found it done on this site, I think its an easy cost effective way to plumb, I could be wrong. And I will share my errors if they arise.

 

[creativecars]

You may get some inexpensive pvc or electrical conduit to slide your hose through and clamp that to your walls. Paint it the way you want an mark it Compressed AIR. Im thinking about doing that to mine.

 

[ishiboo]

what would cause the blow-out, the only blowout I have had is because a hose was cut and the other was someones really lame repair.

plus in the event of a random blow out, it will be fastened securely to the wall, I turn off the main valve and repair in place.
And yeah they will be outside, I lease a commercial building and I don't really want to open up the walls

thanks for the suggestion but I want to try something different, I haven't yet found it done on this site, I think its an easy cost effective way to plumb, I could be wrong. And I will share my errors if they arise.

With a 40x40, why not run one two or three reels and be done with it? Do you really require many drops/etc? 3/8" in my experience is not good enough for high-cfm equipment, I'd really go 1/2".

The 39 Ford you worked on caught my eye... almost a shame to have that painted huh? I would probably have cleared it and called it a day

 

[Groovy]

I have a rather smallish 30 gallon sears compressor that gets up to about 180 psi. I ran manifold that would allow 4 air hoses to be hooked up and ran a hose 100' out to the back where I work outside on boats and would leave it hooked up all the time and pressurized. That hose exploded one time when I was running a whizzer cut off tool out there. It scared the heck out of me no damage it was one of those orange Home Depot cheapies. I use a shorter better quality hose now and just hook it up and DC when done with the job now so I would buy the right stuff for the job and I should because that is a pain and takes extra time.

 

[Kail]

With a 40x40, why not run one two or three reels and be done with it? Do you really require many drops/etc? 3/8" in my experience is not good enough for high-cfm equipment, I'd really go 1/2".

The issue is with the cars and equipment, I always have hoses on the ground, they get hung up, you pull it where you need and its caught on something, especially on the rainy days when i cant roll cars out side. Plus you cant roll the welder, hand truck, torch cart over it. The hoses get dirty and I just don't care for the clutter.

The 39 Ford you worked on caught my eye... almost a shame to have that painted huh? I would probably have cleared it and called it a day

Thanks, that is one of my favorite cars to have ever worked on. Plus the awards it won blew us all away, sweepstakes at grand national, sac autorama, plus the chip foose design of excellence award, and goodguys street rod of the year.

 

[PaulR]

You'll get water accumulation in any incorrect setup. As far as strength: I have an onboard air system in my offroad Jeep, as many here probably do as well. Just ran air lines through the frame and around the axles, there is no environment tougher than that I can guarantee. I just yanked out my first line in 8 years this past fall. I scoff at the "take out your whole family" thing.

 

[T1320T]

From my experience I'd say you'll be fine. I ran a similar setup in my shop & had 3 drops... about 150' total length of 3/8" & zero problems after 5 yrs of use.

 

[tonydanzah]

You could always use large diameter nylon air line, the kind found on semi brake systems. I have been using this in my home garage setup, I even left a couple of large coils and it acts as a water seperator.

 

[Grumpy365]

I should also mention I run a dryer at the compressor.




Thanks for the input so far, I want to make sure I cover my bases and get as many perspectives as possible. And I will post pictures when it is done.

Hey, nock your lights out. I say go for it.

But i have a 4 year old chevy sitting outside with a set on Dry Rotted Michelins on it right now.

I have seen hose reels sit with pressure for years with no problem.

I was just bringing it up. Dry air, over Extended timeframe, COULD lead to pre mature failure.

 

[rwhite692]

For plumbing air at a business, where you are most likely going to have the lines pressurized 24x7, I would not recommend plumbing the whole shop with rubber hose lines. Rubber hoses dry out/degrade over time (and cheap ones generally available nowadays don't take much time!).

How much will it cost you on your utility bill, the first time you have a hose burst over a weekend, and your compressor runs full-tilt for a couple of days straight?

Not to mention that it certainly doesn't look professional in a business setting. Only you can make the call, on whether or not appearing like Cooter's Garage matters to your customers....

If you are averse to doing it in copper or black iron pipe, you should consider a system like this...it is plenty cheap enough and reliable.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200367525_200367525

 

[tonydanzah]

For plumbing air at a business, where you are most likely going to have the lines pressurized 24x7, I would not recommend plumbing the whole shop with rubber hose lines. Rubber hoses dry out/degrade over time (and cheap ones generally available nowadays don't take much time!).

Not to mention that it certainly doesn't look professional in a business setting. Only you can make the call, on whether or not appearing like Cooter's Garage matters to your customers....

If you are averse to doing it in copper or black iron pipe, you should consider a system like this...it is plenty cheap enough and reliable.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200367525_200367525

look at that, nylon hose similar to whats used in semi brake lines

 

[rwhite692]

look at that, nylon hose similar to whats used in semi brake lines

Yep...You can also get these materials individually from industrial supply places like McMaster (Parker Push-To-Connect fittings, and the hose)

 

[Kail]

For plumbing air at a business, where you are most likely going to have the lines pressurized 24x7, I would not recommend plumbing the whole shop with rubber hose lines. Rubber hoses dry out/degrade over time (and cheap ones generally available nowadays don't take much time!).How much will it cost you on your utility bill, the first time you have a hose burst over a weekend, and your compressor runs full-tilt for a couple of days straight?

I never have nor will leave the shop for the day and not turn off the compressor, and I pull the safety valve at the end of the day to let down the tank pressure to around 60psi

Not to mention that it certainly doesn't look professional in a business setting. Only you can make the call, on whether or not appearing like Cooter's Garage matters to your customers....

If you are averse to doing it in copper or black iron pipe, you should consider a system like this...it is plenty cheap enough and reliable.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200367525_200367525

How does that kit look any better? and instead of push in fittings I am using brass npt fittings. I am having a connector and drain at each drop. The only thing I like is the drop has a fancy aluminum manifold. Plus the Rubber air hose has a much higher Run and Burst PSI. And I would expect that kit to rupture easier than the rubber airhose. But that is an opinion since I don't have any solid data to back that up

 

[cashishift]

I build hot rods and my work speaks for its self, I doubt using rubber for shop plumbing is going to cause anyone to second guess what I do. I don't plan to loosely hang hose around the shop. When its done I am sure the install will look clean and professorial as it will be ran in the same manner as pipe.

If that's the case, you should already know that its easier to do the job right the first time. Rubber will degrade over time.

I'm sure one of your customers who is a plumber wouldn't mind trading out some labor to sweat some joints... which if he is good, shouldn't take hardly any time at all.

Also, when looking for copper you want Type L.. and find a plumbing supply house in your area, it will most likely be alot cheaper than a hardware store.

 

[dkroth]

look at that, nylon hose similar to whats used in semi brake lines

Hahahahaha!

 

[nate379]

Rubber hose is what I used to hook my compressor from my shed to my garage, about 100ft distance. Hose is in conduit 3 ft underground though. I used either 3/4" or 1", can't remember.

 

[MoonRise]

The other reasons to use hard metal pipe/tube instead of a bunch of rubber air hoses (besides the already mentioned blow out possibility) :

- looks 'better' than some rubber hoses held on the wall (IMHO);

- there's probably some OSHA or CAL-OSHA or other safety reg somewhere about using hard lines where possible and/or about hose 'restraints' or whip tie-downs being required for hoses;

- more importantly IMHO, metal hard lines FLOW air better (generally) than a bunch of air hoses because of size and shape and it's relatively easy to just use a bigger size pipe/tube to get even better air flow (and also to act as part of the air storage capacity of the system as a whole);

- and even more importantly, metal hard lines transfer heat out of the compressed air and let the moisture condense out in the lines instead of at the point of use or help cool the air stream such that the 'moisture' filter at the end of the run can then condense and/or coalesce out more moisture.

You can read some of that here:

http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf

Run a complete loop of 3/4 pipe around your entire shop, have air drops and drip legs where desired, and then don't worry about it. Have it done with some unions (fittings, not organized labor group) for easier changes or repair/replacement down the road.

IMHO.

 

[nickleone]

Go to: http://www.airtxinternational.com/recommended-air-hoses.htm
see what your losses will be.

Nick

 

[SgtRauksauff]

It's a business, right? I don't own my own business, but aren't things like this considered to be tax writeoffs?

Do you have any employees? Safety concerns might be brought up if one of them decides to be all snarky and bitter.

Will you ever resell the shop? Having it already pre-plumbed for air "the correct way" might make a good selling point.

What sort of air tools are you running? One reason I'm in favor of black pipe to condense water out is because my biggest air tool is a tire changer, with a valve body that costs a lot of money. Since my shop is a non-business home garage, the heat isn't on all the time. I'd rather spend a couple hundred bucks now for a good system, then have to repair a messed-up valve body in my tire changer because of freezing collected water vapor.

If you're painting, the cleaner the air you put into the gun, the better. clean dry air in the first place makes for a lot less use of consumables like dessicants, etc....

It might be, in the long run, to be less expensive to run black pipe than rubber hose....

Just a few thoughts.

--sarge

 

[Kail]

I think the Line size should be good here are the numbers

3/8 airline @ 50' @ 130psi will produce 34.27 CFM
3/8 airline @ 100' @ 130psi will produce 24.23 CFM

the only thing I am not sure about is friction in the line

 

[Kail]

quick numbers
120' with couplers needed + t's and 90's does not include valves and drains since this will be the same parts used in all applications

1/2
Black pipe: 130.60
Copper: 141.53

3/8 Goodyear black Airline
fittings and T's again not including the valves : 51.98

BUT the airline would need more straps to keep it neat straight

again after reading I am concerned with static and friction, I would think the static would dissipated because of the straps grounding it but maybe not

 

[MoonRise]

I think the Line size should be good here are the numbers

3/8 airline @ 50' @ 130psi will produce 34.27 CFM
3/8 airline @ 100' @ 130psi will produce 24.23 CFM

the only thing I am not sure about is friction in the line

You'd probably lose an easy 10 psi in the 50 ft run of 3/8 air hose due to friction.

As per the previously posted link http://www.airtxinternational.com/recommended-air-hoses.htm

a 50 ft run of 3/4 pipe at 100 psi will only drop less than 1 psi up to a flow rate of about 50 cfm.

Go with pipe or tube. Metal. 3/4 inch. And than you don't have to 'worry' about flow restrictions or flow loss or blow outs or such.

IMHO.

And this is for a business and you are fretting over about $100 in pipe costs? Penny-wise and pound foolish there.

Put the metal pipe in and be done with it. Better air flow, better cooling of the air stream and thus better water vapor separation, more durable, safer, better looking, etc, etc, etc.

Just put 3/4 metal pipe in already.

 

[59 wagon man]

unprofessional for a professional

 

[hetkind]

I plumbed my 34x70 pole barn in under a day with 1/2" black iron pipe including a trip to town for pipe and fittings. The piping is probably good for 30 years before it needs much maintenance, in the last 25 years I have gone through a 55 gallon drum of rubber air hoses...

Let us know how the rubber hose works out for you...

Howard

 

[Steevo]

That kit from Northern says:
"Rated up to 150 PSI and 70°F"
WTF?

70°F?

 

[6768rogues]

If you are that worried about clutter and having a hose under your feet, you are the kind of person I would hire to build a car.

 

[79firebird]

if you go with 3/8 line do a wrap around the shop and plumb it back into the compressor. we did this at my buddys shop when we where haveing a hard time with 1 fue tools running slow and it fixed it as air can enter on both ends just not a dead stop. i do that when ever i run any lines now adays

 

[e-tek]

Although mine's plumbed in black pipe (and I just added a 16' section tofay..), I think there's really little downside to using air hose (other than water sitting in the down side...). If you put a seperator before your tools and a dessicant dryer before your paint gun/sand blaster you should be good for a loooong time!

 

[modeltford]

.....

If you are averse to doing it in copper or black iron pipe, you should consider a system like this...it is plenty cheap enough and reliable.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200367525_200367525

About 15 years ago, working in a film processing house, we ran a similar system with approx 200 drops for assorted machines. Was easy to work with, had no problems with moisture, even with the compressors on the roof, and was still working fine last I heard - 5 or 6 years ago.

Rich

 

[kwb]

If the tools you are using use any sort of CFM your pressure losses in hose (or too small of pipe) will kill your productivity in a big way.

Spend the money and run pipe/tube and get a productivity gain - keeping in mind that compressed air is one of the most expensive forms of power for tools.

 

[Greatbear]

The worst I would see is that you might end up with moisture problems using hose over black or galvanized pipe. If you inspect the hose regularly you should be okay. It's not how I would handle the installation (in my garage I used black iron pipe and fittings) but it's not completely unreasonable.

If you install a typical filter/dryer (non-refrigerated) next to a compressor and run piping (or hosing?) from there, the ability of the dryer to accumulate water is greatly diminished by the heat of the compressed air in the tank. A long run of pipe or even hose allows the air to cool and condense the water vapor from the air, allowing the dryer to most effectively remove it from the airstream. Even a coalescing filter can't remove water vapor in it's lightest form.

 

[cheap bastard]

The financial savings of using hose are truly small in this case. Upsizing to 1/2" hose will make the difference too small to consider for long term use. The only advantage I can see here is time required to install the system. Using die grinders and sand blasters with both long and short 3/8" hoses showed a noticeable performance difference in my experience. The use of one 100 ft hose has to be a PITA. Any improvement would probably make a huge difference in the work enjoyment.

 

[bayou985]

Yer nutz!!!!

 

[Kail]

UPDATE:
Ok i plumbed my shop using black air hose about 6 months ago. I used 2 hole straps about every 3 feet. I have 3 drops around the shop each with a drain and a shutoff valve.
I haven't had any issues at all. 2 people can run air tools at the same time with no issue.

The airline hasn't sagged at all, it's still exactly how it looked when I hung it, and it has sustained cold January and the current 100+ weather.

I love it and it was cheap as hell...

It is neat and not sloppy whatsoever, anyone who is thinking of doing this in there shop I say go for it and don't listen to the bench racers.