Utilities

[BehanCS]

Hey all,

First and foremost, I appreciate all of the input that got me to the point where I decided on my garage size and door layout and all of the things of this nature. Now I am getting to my next step in design. I have done all my site works but have about 8 weeks to kill before I begin actual construction.

I am going to take advantage of this time and try to figure out the best way to go about what utilities I want to run to the garage.

1. Electric is a no brainer . I Was going to do a 60 amp panel because other than a compressor I don’t plan on running anything major such as a welder. Mainly lighting and standard outlets. Does anyone think it’s foolish to stay with 60 instead of 100?

2. Water. I am 99% sure I am going to run water out there just so I can have a hose bib on the front of the garage (For car wash) and the back (for gardens).. My main question would be, has anyone installed a mop sink so they could de grease in their garage without actually hooking into their septic system? I don’t want to spend the dollars and cents in running a drain all the way into the house just so I can wash my hands a couple times a week. I was thinking about just running it to the outside.

3. Natural gas. I was thinking about running a gas line out there so I could hook up some type of heater. I was originally thinking about doing radiant heat in the floor but I think that is going to get too costly and eat up a lot of budget fast. So I was thinking if I ran a gas line out there I could hook up something plenty powerful to heat the garage when I’m working out there in the winter. Is this a common idea or am I over complicating a way to keep warm in winters when working out there?

 

[rlwhitetr3b]

I went with a mini-split in my 24x30 garage which seems very inexpensive heat. I have not cooled it yet.
Spend the money for very good insulation, it will pay back big time.

 

[nadogail]

If you have a mop sink in your garage with greasy water in it, where do you want it to drain to?
What comes into the sink will need to go out. Are you close enough to another building to tap into that buildings sewer?

 

[BehanCS]

In reality yes i could run it back to the main building. The other side of that is that I probably don’t want to spend the money to do it. The cost involved between material, labor, and the additional permit would dwarf the ability to wash my hands in the garage instead of the basement.

 

[rok_hunter]

My 30x40 has a 100A panel, a 220v outlet for an anticipated welder down the road, and 220v run to an external disconnect box to drive a 36k DIY mini-split for heat & AC (closed-cell spray foam for insulation). I set power outlets along each interior wall on/around every 8 feet if I recall correctly (exact spacing dependant on studs) and every 4-5 feet along where I built my workbench. I also put a single exterior outlet centered on each outside wall.

I did the exact same with water, just put a hose bib right outside the walkthrough door. I thought about a basin sink inside but skipped it for the same cost & complexity issues you mentioned, plus I wanted a bib outside to run sprinklers/attach a hose for washing vehicles anyway.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[BehanCS]

Yeah I am pretty against connecting to sewer. I am debating a dry well or a collection bucket that i can manually empty if anything. 100 amp sounds nice but I’m not sure that I would be running a mini split or a welder so it might just be extra money.

 

[liliysdad]

You will never wish you had less power...

 

[ratdoggy]

If you can get NG to it reasonably I'd do it.
My garage is so much better to work in when I run the heater vs a jet heater (couldn't hear squat and the fumes.
It's also cheap to heat

 

[bdbecker]

...100 amp sounds nice but I’m not sure that I would be running a mini split or a welder so it might just be extra money.

It'd be worth putting in the extra power if for no other reason than to future-proof for electric cars becoming more common. You never know, 10 years from now you may want to install a charging station out there and will be glad you have enough capacity.

 

[Danno1]

Does anyone think it’s foolish to stay with 60 instead of 100? ...


... I was originally thinking about doing radiant heat in the floor but I think that is going to get too costly and eat up a lot of budget fast.

Definitely go w 100A over 60.


You should run the PEX anyway. That's relatively inexpensive to do now and impossible to do later. You don't have to hook it up right away.



.

 

[BehanCS]

Solid suggestions for the 100 amp votes. Probably only marginally more expensive.

Sure running pex is cheap. The 2 inch of insulation through the garage floor would be about 900 bucks though. I don’t think I am going this route for this garage. I plan on being at this house for 10 years max. Next house i will be more willing to spend what is needed to get the perfect setup

 

[b-boy]

1. Electric is a no brainer . I Was going to do a 60 amp panel because other than a compressor I don’t plan on running anything major such as a welder. Mainly lighting and standard outlets. Does anyone think it’s foolish to stay with 60 instead of 100?

2. Water. I am 99% sure I am going to run water out there just so I can have a hose bib on the front of the garage (For car wash) and the back (for gardens).. My main question would be, has anyone installed a mop sink so they could de grease in their garage without actually hooking into their septic system? I don’t want to spend the dollars and cents in running a drain all the way into the house just so I can wash my hands a couple times a week. I was thinking about just running it to the outside.

3. Natural gas. I was thinking about running a gas line out there so I could hook up some type of heater. I was originally thinking about doing radiant heat in the floor but I think that is going to get too costly and eat up a lot of budget fast. So I was thinking if I ran a gas line out there I could hook up something plenty powerful to heat the garage when I’m working out there in the winter. Is this a common idea or am I over complicating a way to keep warm in winters when working out there?

I built a 30'x40' with all 3 of these. It's 250ft from my house.

I use a Goodman 95+% efficient forced air NG furnace to heat the building. I went way over on insulation to make it efficient.

I ran everything for a 100A service, but the breaker in the house is currently a 60A, but I can upgrade to 100A whenever I want for the price of a breaker. The cost difference for 100A was nominal.

I have water. I have 2 external hose bibs and a sink that drains out the back of the building. I'm very careful what goes into that sink. Water only - and I use biodegradable cleaners as needed.

Running the utilities from the house to the barn was not cheap. Since I'm in the North East, I had to bury the water at least 48". It ran about $5K for the ditch, the materials, and the hookup of water and gas. The guys I hired wouldn't hook up the electric.

 

[mike93lx]

90a is at a sweet spot. #2 AL is cheap and there are options for direct burial, in wall and in conduit applications.

 

[Norcal]

As to power to a garage or shop the GJ standard is # 2 AL MHF cable which is good for 90A.

 

[BehanCS]

B-boy I have a feeling I’m going to do a similar setup but there is a good chance i do a cheaper style heater because i was only going to run it while I’m out there working. We shall see what happens in time. I have a feeling my plumbing will be very similar.

 

[mike93lx]

Your local health department probably won't be keen on a sink just draining outside

 

[nmk_61802]

For electric, I think most 60amp panels are 6 to 8 breakers. If you do a 220 compressor 25-33% of your panel is filled. Heater should be it's own breaker as well. Usually I like lights and outlets separated and alternating. You'll find they fill up fast.

Personally I would put in a 100 amp panel just for the additional breaker spaces. You can still feed it with 60 amps if you prefer, but depending on distance, after the panel I think cost for heavier wire minimal. Most of the cost is labor.

For water, if you want a sink install a drain line to your waste system, or only install a frost free hydrant. I would assume your area in PA freezes in the winter. Unless you are heating the space all winter, you will need to blow out and add antifreeze to anything else.

If you plan to work in the space, I would not build anything that I could not heat either with electric (see breaker comments above) or with NG. Unless you have cheap electricity or very little heating requirements, NG will always be less expensive. In a space like you are thinking I would use this for heat, many different manufacturers make similar:

https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...age-heater/f260550/p-1444441200665-c-6861.htm

Also if heating insulate as much as your can.

 

[BehanCS]

Nmk that is the exact style heater I am thinking as of right now. Thanks for the link.

Mike, i get it. water on the ground is bad. It's a mop sink to wash my hands. I'd hand empty a bucket before I run a drain line

 

[rlwhitetr3b]

I would think a 100A box will be a lot easier to find than a 60A. Also IIRC our mini-split is on a 20A breaker.

 

[b-boy]

B-boy I have a feeling I’m going to do a similar setup but there is a good chance i do a cheaper style heater because i was only going to run it while I’m out there working. We shall see what happens in time. I have a feeling my plumbing will be very similar.

You'd be surprised at how cheap it is to heat. I keep it at ~50F all winter. I have a WIFI thermostat that I can use to bump it up when I want to work in the barn. The cost to heat the place is not too bad. I didn't even really notice a spike in my gas bill.

The furnace was ~$900 plus a a few hundred for the thermostat, wiring, and some duct work. I have 2 large fans to keep the air moving when I'm out there.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'd put in a 100amp box, like mentioned, atleast for the spaces. Do like NorCal says #2 AL MHF but I'm not sure what size breaker it'll take to use it. I believe that wire won't fit in a smaller breaker. Guys like NorCal or Wylie can advise on that.

While you have a trench or trencher there, bury a water line and NG.

Add a 3/4" conduit for future data, coax or alarm system.

Do it now while its cheap.

 

[rburke65]

Do the 100 amp. Run the gas. Insulate well. I ran water and used a hydrant to kill the water in winter. I tied my sink drain Into my down spout grains and it just goes into the woods....5 acres....but I only put dirty water....no oil or NOTHING like that down the drain.

 

[BehanCS]

Thanks for the advice everyone!

 

[rnixon]

Asked my electrician if I needed 100 amp service in my 30x36 build.

Here's my 60 amp garage panel , space for 20 breakers ,lighting is 11 multi lamp LED fixtures [48 4ft. T-8] and 8 LED flat panels. 150 watt LED floods front & rear . Heat is 96% ducted NG , A/C is 18 Seer 2.5 ton split .
Red breakers are 240v, for A/C , Compressor , 10K lift, Welder, and Tankless hot water in the bathroom

Electrician said 60 amp is enough, and he was right.

 

[mike93lx]

Asked my electrician if I needed 100 amp service in my 30x36 build.

Here's my 60 amp garage panel , space for 20 breakers ,lighting is 11 multi lamp LED fixtures [48 4ft. T-8] and 8 LED flat panels. 150 watt LED floods front & rear . Heat is 96% ducted NG , A/C is 18 Seer 2.5 ton split .
Red breakers are 240v, for A/C , Compressor , 10K lift, Welder, and Tankless hot water in the bathroom

Electrician said 60 amp is enough, and he was right.

60a is enough for the vast majority of people, but more doesn't hurt and it doesn't coat much, if anything, to bump to 90a.

Your panel is already almost full. I would have put a bigger one in, which would not have required a larger service. You can always use a 100a (or bigger) panel with 60a service