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Vacuum pump oil in a circulating pump?

bzinsky

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So I recently had a circulating pump fail because I wasn't aware it needed oil. The hvac tech replaced the pump and filled the reservoir with vacuum pump oil. The pump was quite expensive so I don't want another one to fail, and I have two of them.

Wondering if using vacuum pump oil was a bad idea on his part.

Pic of failed pump if it helps.
 

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JABgj

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Contact the manufacturer and see what their spec is. Might even buy the oil from them to
keep a paper trail for warranty.
 

raspy

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You'll have to be more specific. You don't say what failed. Those B&G pumps do need oil, but you don't "fill" the reservoir. They take a few drops at the seal and a drop or two at each end of the motor. Oiling once a season is plenty and only a couple drops at most.

I've seen them run for many years with no attention or any oiling.

The most likely failure on these is the spring drive coupling, and according to B&G, the most likely reason for this to fail is over oiling. Too much oil softens the motor mounts which lets the motor sag and run out of allignment, which stresses the coupling. The coupling is a fairly easy part to replace, but it will fail again if the motor mounts are weak.

Too late now, but it's probably better to go with a system lubricated pump next time, like a Grundfoss or Taco.

Keeping a "paper trail", as suggested, is ridiculous. It's not about building a legal case of who is to blame years down the road in the event of a failure you think happened before it should have. Sheesh. It's about what is the correct oil and what is the correct technique.

Those pumps all used to come with a small amount of oil in a plastic packet that was to be kept with the pump for future use. A good alternative to non-detergent electric motor oil is Mobil 1. I'm sure your vacuum pump oil is fine. If anything, it probably has less volatles to evaporate. Probably better than standard motor oil and definitely better than transmission fluid.
 
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bzinsky

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You'll have to be more specific. You don't say what failed. Those B&G pumps do need oil, but you don't "fill" the reservoir. They take a few drops at the seal and a drop or two at each end of the motor. Oiling once a season is plenty and only a couple drops at most.

They have an oil fill port and a sight glass for the oil level. Are you sure about that?
 

raspy

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The pump in your picture appears to be a standard B&G spring drive pump with a small oil cap on the pump seal/bearing chamber. I can just see it under the partially removed guard in the picture.

Please post a picture of the "sight glass".

Very often, under these pumps I find a lot of oil on the floor from over-oiling. I find oil in cans, sitting near the pump, of every variety. And I find pumps that have never been oiled. If I had to come up with the statistics, I'd say the ones with no service are the ones that start dripping water at the seal and the ones that get oiled are the ones with the biggest mess underneath and failed spring drives.
 
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bzinsky

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Please post a picture of the "sight glass".

here you go.
Failed pump had no oil in sight glass, working pump had a little bit left in it
 

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bobbyjean

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bzinsky- i usually see that as an overflow port.....check for something called zoom spout oiler and grab a few...should be a few bucks.
If you look above that "overflow" you will notice the cover with the oil port come's out....inside is wicking (rope) placed over each bearing and laid in resevoir...when you oil that next time remove and check wicking...takes a few years but that is a wear part and will help extend life...also need to use good oil.
 

Mechtech

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Based on some very brief google searches it's an Armstrong pump with an oil lubricated booster stage. I couldn't find anything on recommended oil, but vacuum pump oil is really a very low viscosity oil(especially at elevated temperatures). As Grainger lists a set a wicks as replacement parts for that I'm guessing that it was designed for a light mineral oil so it may work with vacuum pump oil but then lubrication is not the primary purpose of vacuum pump oil.
 
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Tracs

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In some small vacuum pumps the oil is 10W. I was told by Vacmaster that hydraulic jack oil can be used as a substitute.
 

raspy

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Zoom-Spout oilers, as mentioned by bobby, are a very good, easy to get and easy to use choice. They have been around forever and are commonly used for these pumps. No need to re-invent the wheel or track down an obscure oil.
 

RPR

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It’s commonly know as a bearing assembly ,and yes there shipped dry with and oil packet ( light vis mineral oil ) you fill the bearing assembly and then as stated before a few drops in the motor front and rear bearings . There is usually a mark on the small packet ( a fill to this guide ) .
 

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RPR

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Let’ elaborate a bit on the vacuum pump oil , vacuum pump oil has additives that induce moisture absobtion . vacuum pump oils primary use is not only lubracation but rather to absorb moisture as non condensiables are pulled thru it while evacuating refrigeration systems , vacuum pumps are / must be periodically drained and oil flushed and disposed of as it quickly becomes moisture latent . I would consult Armstrong or perhaps go to a legit plumbing or mechanical supplier , ( it shouldn’t cost much ) note that bearing oil should keep solids in suspension and resist contamination.
 

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LS6 Tommy

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If that pic you posted shows the pump oriented as installed, it will fail again. The shaft must be parallel to the floor and there is a top and bottom of the assembly...

Tommy
 

EOC_Jason

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If that pic you posted shows the pump oriented as installed, it will fail again. The shaft must be parallel to the floor and there is a top and bottom of the assembly...

Tommy

Look at the brick in background & unistrut mount, probably the usual cell phone turning 90 degrees issue...
 
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raspy

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Yeah, it looks like it is oriented correctly, with the shaft horizontal and the oil cap on top of the seal and bearing chamber.

Problem is, Bzinsky never has clarified what specifcally went wrong. It may have nothing to do with oil, or it could be the motor or the spring drive. Maybe the red paint failed! Who knows?
 
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bzinsky

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Problem is, Bzinsky never has clarified what specifcally went wrong. It may have nothing to do with oil, or it could be the motor or the spring drive. Maybe the red paint failed! Who knows?

I have no idea
switched on pump, it made a loud noise like an electric motor under stress and wouldn't turn, was obviously something seized. Called hvac tech.

All he said "the pump seized and he could not oil it and force it to turn."

So we have a seized pump and an oil reservoir with no oil.
 
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