Vaulted my ceiling!

[Rickenbackerman]

Ever since getting the lift I never thought I'd have the height to be able to stand under it anyway - I just assumed I'd be rolling around on my roller seat.

In addition to the Firebird, the Miata will go all the way up for sure, not sure about the Chevelle or my wife's Fusion, but definitely not with my Ranger. I'm WAY glad I went this route though, if I did it with collar ties I don't think I'd even be able to lift the Miata all the way up.

 

[jdieter]

Nice job Rickenbackerman, I have the same height issues, have explored several truss revision schemes and have ruled any modification out except a vaulted ceiling also. What is the size (LxWxH) and cost of the lvl's, as they were probably the most expensive part of the job, since you did the labor. I would also be building for a 40psf total load but don't have a structural background and would go to an engineer so the cost of the lvl's and the engineering fee is a good starting point to develop a budget.

 

[Rickenbackerman]

Nice job Rickenbackerman, I have the same height issues, have explored several truss revision schemes and have ruled any modification out except a vaulted ceiling also. What is the size (LxWxH) and cost of the lvl's, as they were probably the most expensive part of the job, since you did the labor. I would also be building for a 40psf total load but don't have a structural background and would go to an engineer so the cost of the lvl's and the engineering fee is a good starting point to develop a budget.

My LVL's are 11-7/8" high, 1-3/4" wide and 24 feet long, however they are sized to my specific loading conditions and you'd need an engineer to size them for your application (which it sounds like you understand). They were just a hair over $200 delivered (delivery was free though), which I thought was a total bargain. I didn't really keep track, but I think did the whole thing for around $400.

 

[IONH]

When I had a load bearing wall drawn up by an engineer, I had similar sized LVL spec'd. I was also surprised at how inexpensive they were for the big job they accomplish.

 

[dirttracker18]

Nice looking work there.

As for your calcs I do have a major concern . . .




It is wayyy over my head and I don't understand any of it

 

[tcianci]

I just had some LVL material speced for a strongback, which will allow me to remove a section of bearing wall and hang the existing ceiling joists from the LVL. I have a situation just like yours where you raked back the LVL to the slope of the roof. The LVL manufacturer specifies that you can not rake back the end of the LVL any further than the a point projected vertically from the inside surface of the wall that the LVL bears on. Basically, if your wall and top plate are 2x4, you're limited to raking the LVL back only 3 1/2 inches. This is obviously done to preserve the shear value of the engineered member. Even if you fasten another cleat to the bearing wall to get more support under the LVL, the point at the top surface of the LVL will still be well inboard of the cleat and you will stil be compromised in shear strength. Adding steel along side the LVL , essentially scabbing the weak point is probably the way to go.

 

[ovilla]

Please explain in more detail how you attached your 2"X10" (?) vertical posts to your LVL's. What type of metal plate is that and what did you attach it with? You also mentioned that you notched these posts, so how far does the ridge beam go past the posts on each end? Finally, did you add more hurricane bracing then on the other side? Please take some more pics of this section or just elaborate on what you did.

By the way, I need to do the same thing over my 3rd bay and was thinking of just sisterring scissor trusses to the existing three trusses that I need to vault and then cutting out the bottom chords. However, I really like your method. I already have 10' ceilings but I need every inch of overhead space for my Maxima and Honda Ody.

Many thanks for sharing all of this info. There's been a few millions folks asking about vaulting celings and yours is the only one with a great write up behind it.

 

[Rickenbackerman]

The LVL manufacturer specifies that you can not rake back the end of the LVL any further than the a point projected vertically from the inside surface of the wall that the LVL bears on. Basically, if your wall and top plate are 2x4, you're limited to raking the LVL back only 3 1/2 inches.

Good info, thanks for sharing. Seems to be *really* conservative, but I'm sure the manufacturers are doing what us engineers call "keeping some extra margin in your back pocket".

Adding steel along side the LVL , essentially scabbing the weak point is probably the way to go.

Yep, that's what I'm planning on doing. Just need to find a steel supplier around here (and I need some steel for other projects as well).

 

[Rickenbackerman]

Please explain in more detail how you attached your 2"X10" (?) vertical posts to your LVL's. What type of metal plate is that and what did you attach it with? You also mentioned that you notched these posts, so how far does the ridge beam go past the posts on each end? Finally, did you add more hurricane bracing then on the other side? Please take some more pics of this section or just elaborate on what you did.

The 2x10 is obviously 1.5" wide, but the LVL is 1.75" wide. I added some "mending plates" I found at (b)Lowes in the Simpson strong tie area on either side of the 2x10 to make it flush with the sides of the LVL, and then added two more mending plates (twice as tall) to fasten the two together. It's got about 30 nails on each side. Does that make sense? I can take more pics if not, but as you can see I'm using my camera phone and it doesn't work too well in low light.

I tried to get the ridge centered, but I was off by a bit. On one side, there's about 3/4" of overhang past the 2x10, but on the other side it's flush with the face of the 2x10. No additional hurricane straps on the outside. If I had enough overhang, I probably would have added them.

By the way, I need to do the same thing over my 3rd bay and was thinking of just sisterring scissor trusses to the existing three trusses that I need to vault and then cutting out the bottom chords. However, I really like your method. I already have 10' ceilings but I need every inch of overhead space for my Maxima and Honda Ody.

I thought of the scissor truss too, but with 8' ceilings, it wouldn't have bought me much.

Many thanks for sharing all of this info. There's been a few millions folks asking about vaulting celings and yours is the only one with a great write up behind it.

That's precisely why I started this thread. I found tons of "how can I do this" talk and not much that said "this is what I did".

 

[ovilla]

Did you raise your garage door tracks to follow the new pitch of the 2x8 rafters?

 

[buening]

Yep, that's what I'm planning on doing. Just need to find a steel supplier around here (and I need some steel for other projects as well).

I've found some of the cheaper steel suppliers are your local welding shops, so check there.

 

[Rickenbackerman]

Did you raise your garage door tracks to follow the new pitch of the 2x8 rafters?

Would have loved to, but CAN'T! The center (vaulted) and right bays both have a 16' door in front of them. I'd like to maybe eventually separate that into two doors, with the center one following the roof pitch, but the center door would have to be slightly narrower than 8' to fit up into the vaulted portion.

 

[Rickenbackerman]

Rickenbackerman...
In pic 2 of the second set, is that a standard-duty Simpson joist hanger? I ended up using a Simpson HGLTV3.59 in a similar (but not identical) situation. It's a weldment of two 1/4" steel plate formed parts.

You know, if you would have widened the bay out a little more, you could put two little cars up there sideways for the winter...

Chip

Yeah, standard-duty. I didn't see anything heavy duty like your pic shows. Where did you find that?

I suppose I could have vaulted the center AND right bays, using the wall on the right to support the ridge, but then I would have needed a truly massive LVL on the left side of the center bay. No idea how I would even get the thing up there. Just getting these "little" ones up there took three guys and a lot of grunting.

 

[ovilla]

Would have loved to, but CAN'T! The center (vaulted) and right bays both have a 16' door in front of them. I'd like to maybe eventually separate that into two doors, with the center one following the roof pitch, but the center door would have to be slightly narrower than 8' to fit up into the vaulted portion.

I'm going to be in the same situation. I have all the roof trusses running side to side in the big 2-door bay that end a couple of feet into the 3rd bay, just inches past/above the garage door tracks (on one side of the door). I'm still going to vault the 3rd bay though. I measured things out and I should be able to drive in any of my cars (and even my van), close the garage door (and unplug the opener - until I hook up a light switch to it), and then lift my vehicles all the way up. I obviously won't be able to fully open the 3rd bay door when anything other than my little 914's are on the lift. With any other vehicle on the lift, at full height, my door will most likely hit the cars.

Anyway, once again, Thanks for showing everyone how to do this.

 

[Rosco]

Awesome idea and great post! Not sure if it has been mentioned, but it appears that the garage door header just took on a lot of added weight. Not a big deal, but just an observation.....I am not an engineer!

 

[tigerbalm2424]

No permit, no sign off, no inspection. I do structural work for NASA

Love it!

I'll leave it alone though!

 

[Rickenbackerman]

Awesome idea and great post! Not sure if it has been mentioned, but it appears that the garage door header just took on a lot of added weight. Not a big deal, but just an observation.....I am not an engineer!

Nope, same exact amount of weight, but the load points have been moved around some. Instead of having the three (removed) trusses bearing on the header, that load is now divided between the two LVL's.

 

[B964]

I am also in need of more ceiling height. I have 9 foot high now and about 2 to 3 feet more for a 4 post lift to store two cars. Instead of adding scissor trusses I want to just raise the lower tie. The extra height is only needed in the center of the parking area for the top cars greenhouse. I will consult an truss engineer but this should be easy and safe to do. Only two of the trusses need to be modified.

Also my floor is only 4 inches of concrete. Would it be worth cutting/digging out the areas for the 4 post feet and pouring thicker footers?

 

[bad_idea]

i like it. being a fan of f-bodys, tell me more about the formula. i have an 02z w/ 36k or so miles on it. mostly stock. again, nice looking setup.

 

[Rickenbackerman]

'99 WS6 Formula. 1 of 175 for that year, about 35K on the clock. First and only vehicle I've ever bought new. Bilstein shocks, Strano springs, LS6 intake, ported TB, bigger injectors, underdrive pulley, Yank 3600 stall converter, Flowtech Streetsweeper HT cam, American Racing stainless headers, Magnaflow catback. I'm forgetting some stuff but those are the main things. 365RWHP/355RWTQ.

 

[kirk.g]

First off I would like to say that I somewhat agree with Dirttracker.(this is over my head ,at least the terminology is and no pun intended)As I type this I am watching 1000 ways to die and I hope I dont see this roof on a future episode LOL. ..Just kidding no offence!..............If I just looked at these pics on my own without any explanation,I would say you have eliminated three ceiling joists (not sure thats what there called) and transfered the load to two reinforced joists .Is this basically what I am looking at?.........On another note I have a 90 Firebird Formula with original 305 TBI.Havent driven it for over two years now, as far as I can tell it has a blown head gasket.Was going to sell it but now you,ve got me thinking.........Kirk

 

[bad_idea]

very nice. one of these days the stars will align and an oil well will sprout up in the yard. that should fund all my other toys (and the wifes) to lemme get around to modding the camaro. one of these days. still impressed to get 28 mpg on road trips, love that 6 spd.

 

[kirk.g]

whats an LVL

 

[hilld]

whats an LVL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminated_veneer_lumber