So I have a 900 sq/ft garage that I gave been trying to figure out a flooring option for. This garage is fully insulated and I will be installing a forced hot air heater with A/C (I fabricate and install ductwork for a living). I use this garage for all sorts of things from oil changes to full engine swaps to roll bar installs. I got quotes on race deck and epoxy installs but the race deck isn't durable enough for me and the epoxy has tons of prep work. But I have enough VCT tile and glue here do do the whole garage for free. With that factored in if I install the VCT then put a layer of clear epoxy over it will I get the endurance of epoxy without the full cost? What should I do?
VCT Floor w/epoxy over it
- Thread starter Jamie V
- Start date
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
I think, for your particular situation, that is a decent plan. VCT is pretty tough, but add an epoxy seal and it is as tough as epoxy with the better qualities and low (free in your case) cost of tile. Just keep in mind you will need welding blankets for any welding. You would with epoxy too.
Jim
Jim
EdT
Well-known member
Assuming you've figured out the issues with sticking the tile to a concrete slab, I would sure take a minute to figure out if the epoxy will actually stick to the tile. I would also be concerned that, since the tile is not rigid, the epoxy will crack when a point load is applied to the floor. Like when you're wearing those 6" stilettos.
dcs Inc
Well-known member
I would suggest topping your tile with an urethane top coat. Ad a little aluminum oxide for slip and scratch resistance and be good to go. Just know your top coat over the tile will only be as good as the tile itself. I'm sure the car salesmen will jump in. Get a high quality, high solids urethane. 75% solids or higher.
Urethanes have a better scratch and chemical resistance than epoxies. Well, at least the ones I deal with. You can't do a high build with urethane like you can with epoxies.
Jamie is correct. you need to prep the tiles before coating them or you are just blowing your money.
Urethanes have a better scratch and chemical resistance than epoxies. Well, at least the ones I deal with. You can't do a high build with urethane like you can with epoxies.
Jamie is correct. you need to prep the tiles before coating them or you are just blowing your money.
Last edited:
I found this in an other thread. I'm assuming your referring to what is the EnduraShield that he said to go over the BondTite 1109?
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
This one is a very interesting discussion. Why not take one of your tiles and do a sample with the proposed product and see how tough it is when applied? I'm sure the mfr would sell a small sample to you. Thick epoxy on top or thick polyurethane would almost certainly crack under any point load as discussed. The VCT is too flexible underneath. However, a very thin top coat would be more flexible and wouldn't crack as easily but provide much scuff and wear resistance. For instance, with my epoxy job, I used gorilla tape. Got epoxy all over it. When dry, I can still wrap that around and the epoxy adheres to it. It is very thin. Very thick, and it would crack off. On my rubber squeegee I used, the epoxy cracks right off when I flex it - it is thicker there. Epoxy would yellow so don't use that, but a single coat clear poly urethane could be tried/tested. If you had some failures after doing it, you could always just replace those tiles if needed. Prob best idea in your case to use your vct one way or the other! - Paul
dcs Inc
Well-known member
Yikes, Epoxy and urethanes are applied over tiles all the time. I am just suggesting the best route for less problems down the road. There are better products on the market but they would be overkill. Thin mil product with more scratch resistance and chemical resistance than epoxy is a no brainer in this situation. Make sure the urethane is UV resistant in case you have any sunlight hitting it.
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Few things professor missed and frankly, I am not an expert at VCT tile coating but have picked up a few tips from customers along the way. Also Legacy Industrial does not offer a purpose built VCT tile coating. This is not our forte'. I have heard that Fred at Alpha Garage has this covered.
You can roughen the tiles up to create a bonding surface. However, if you choose to do this it has to be done before they are laid. If on the floor the black will bleed over the white or dark onto light.
Some folks will lay finished side down as the backs are pretty rough, better bonding surface.
The main issue with coating tiles is the seams. You can create an out-gassing issue through an open seam. Therefore, I would lay down 100% solids clear (UV inhibitor version), pull it tight with a squeegee, allow to cure.
Wait no more than 24 hours and apply your money coat. Same material but go with 100 sq ft per gallon coverage.
Applying urethane directly to a tile is an option but not one I have ever heard of or would recommend. I think the epoxy is the way to go from the experiences I have been involved with. Because of the gloss you will get, I would keep a wax coat on it to help prevent scuffs from ruining your art-work.
Good luck and please post it up if you go for it.
Last edited:
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
The thin coat is so any out-gassing won't create a bunch of epoxy volcanoes on the coating's surface. Call it a "grout coat".
Yes, urethane can be added after the epoxy.
Yes, urethane can be added after the epoxy.
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
All epoxies will yellow over time. If you had "beige" vct, you might not notice, or darker color vct. Urethanes even with uv inhibitors only last so long, then the inhibitors go away. Who in the forums has coated their vct with anything? What did you find from doing it?
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
If ambering is a concern you could guinea pig a poly-aspartic clear.
This will not amber.
This will not amber.
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
I'm not sure some of you understand what VCT is. One thing it is not is flexible!
As for epoxy on top, this has been done successfully on this forum several times. Once stripped of its protective coating, VCT has plenty of tack for a top coat of urethane or epoxy.
Jim
As for epoxy on top, this has been done successfully on this forum several times. Once stripped of its protective coating, VCT has plenty of tack for a top coat of urethane or epoxy.
Jim
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
I'm not sure some of you understand what VCT is. One thing it is not is flexible!
As for epoxy on top, this has been done successfully on this forum several times. Once stripped of its protective coating, VCT has plenty of tack for a top coat of urethane or epoxy.
Jim
Stiffness is a relative term. If you think of metals, you might think that Copper is very stiff and so is aluminum. People build things out of these all the time that are structurally sound. But compared to steel, both are very "flexible". They have a much lower E, or Modulus of Elasticity. You may not have thought about it, but steel is also much stiffer than titanium. Titanium is strong and light, but nowhere near as stiff as steel. Sometimes a design is for strength, sometimes stiffness, sometimes both. VCT is nowhere near as stiff as solid epoxy or polyurethane by comparison and is known to deform under heavy load. It is all relative. The question was if a very hard top coat could crack or have other issues over a relatively softer base material when a heavy load or impact load was applied to it. Would you put epoxy over a rubber floor and call it good? That would be extreme, but this frames the question.
Would be good to hear from those who have tried these things with VCT with some time to fully test it out. How did it do? Many have said VCT should not be used in a garage. If it could be successfully coated with a harder material and work well, this could change the game for VCT. - Paul
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Paul, we have customers that coat plywood floors all the time.
Plywood moves and is "flexible". Therefore as long as the load is distributed well it should be no issue.
Frankly, most of the VCT tile/epoxy coating jobs I have been involved with were built for trailer queens. These guys wanted a beautiful glossy floor to show off an automobile or make a space stand-out.
Plywood moves and is "flexible". Therefore as long as the load is distributed well it should be no issue.
Frankly, most of the VCT tile/epoxy coating jobs I have been involved with were built for trailer queens. These guys wanted a beautiful glossy floor to show off an automobile or make a space stand-out.
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
I'm talking compression strength. VCT is not vinyl, it is much harder.
None the less, there have been several people on here top coat their VCT with poly or epoxy successfully in their garage.
Jim
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
yes, like to hear from those who have tried this and how well it has turned out for them over the test of time.
Strength is very different from stiffness, but compression stiffness should be the same as tensile stiffness as far as that goes. Compression strength of course can be very different from tensile strength, all depending on the material. Cement is the classic example where compression strength (and stiffness) is very high. Tensile strength is very low, which is why steel/rebar reinforcement is used to give cement more tensile strength from the steel. - Paul
Strength is very different from stiffness, but compression stiffness should be the same as tensile stiffness as far as that goes. Compression strength of course can be very different from tensile strength, all depending on the material. Cement is the classic example where compression strength (and stiffness) is very high. Tensile strength is very low, which is why steel/rebar reinforcement is used to give cement more tensile strength from the steel. - Paul
AlphaGarage
Well-known member
Wolverine does offer an epoxy coating formulated to eliminate waxing and to protect VCT, BondTite 1115. It's a 100% clear epoxy. Specs call for minimum 12 mils, so figure one gallon per 120 ft2, mix ratio is 1:1 so it's avail in 2 gallon and 4 gallon kits.
Yes, like all epoxies it can color shift, one way to mitigate that is to apply a clear coat of EnduraShield 2254, a polyurethane that is very hard and will help maintain the gloss finish longer also. It's spec'd at 4 mils wet, one gallon per 360 ft2, mix ratio is 1:4 and avail in 0.625 and 1.25 gallon kits.
Make sure all the adhesive has completely set, clean real well, coat away and never deal with waxing again.
Yes, like all epoxies it can color shift, one way to mitigate that is to apply a clear coat of EnduraShield 2254, a polyurethane that is very hard and will help maintain the gloss finish longer also. It's spec'd at 4 mils wet, one gallon per 360 ft2, mix ratio is 1:4 and avail in 0.625 and 1.25 gallon kits.
Make sure all the adhesive has completely set, clean real well, coat away and never deal with waxing again.
Last edited:
dcs Inc
Well-known member
Alpha, The clear polyurethane stops the epoxy under it from ambering? Does it have some high UV protectants in it that stop the UV radiation from penetrating it?
AlphaGarage
Well-known member
No, while the EnduraShield itself is UV resistant, and it does filter out much of the UV light, it does not filter it out 100%. So while it mitigates the epoxy color shifting it doesn't eliminate it.
dcs Inc
Well-known member
Thanks for the explanation. Always looking out for the magic bullet.
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
In a garage it will be a long while, years and years.
Most garages don't get a ton of sunshine.
It actually "ambers". Amber is the color epoxy actually is to begin with.
Most garages don't get a ton of sunshine.
It actually "ambers". Amber is the color epoxy actually is to begin with.
dcs Inc
Well-known member
It can happen pretty quickly with direct sunlight. Windows and a south facing garage door can cause problems. Some epoxies are not as clear as others at the start.
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
Would a poly urethane with UV additives not be a better choice for clear in the garage than a clear epoxy over VCT to avoid un-avoidable eventual ambering of the epoxy? To the question earlier, would this resist chipping/cracking under heavy load or impact loads? Or would this be an issue with the relatively flexible (lower stiffness) VCT floor under the epoxy or poly urethane? - Paul
Last edited:
dcs Inc
Well-known member
Paul, some urethanes are not UV resistant and will amber themselves.
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
See my now corrected note above stating UV additives present.
dcs Inc
Well-known member
I think I stated this would be my choice over an epoxy coating. If we are talking about the industrial 1/4" thick vct tile I have coated then, yes it would be a better choice over epoxy. Epoxy in of itself becomes very brittle unless it is a special formulated flexible epoxy.
Last edited:
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
I'm still not sure what you mean by flexable. VCT is brittle as hell and hardly flexable, especially in compression. If you smack my floor with a hammer you might ding it, but the same would happen to concrete or epoxy.
I guess it depends on how rough you plan on being on the floor. If that rough you would be best using nothing or Porcelain.
Jim
Paul, are you saying clear polyurethane right over the VCT instead of epoxy over VCT then polyurethane?
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
Yes, but not saying, asking if that would be a viable option. My post above is a question, not a statement. VCT is given a recommendation by some for garages and strongly dismissed by others. I've not used it so I don't know. I'm asking those who have if it is viable and if so how best to use it. Most I think have left it as is or with waxing and polishing often. I would worry about being too slick then. If you coat it with a clear of some sort, you can put in anti-slip and get over that issue with it. But does it hold up over time and with impact loads or heavy loads? That is my question. Getting an answer to this question seems to be like pulling teeth for some reason?! People have used VCT for garages - please post your results! I think we are hearing from a few mfgers now that you can put a clear over it but I'm much more interested in what users have experienced, not just the mfgers.
Jamie, I would use your VCT, only question to me is whether to coat it or not and if so with what. I'm curious on my own as well, since VCT can offer some nice colors, and is much cheaper than other ceramic or porcelin tile options or epoxy base + clear options. - Paul
Last edited:
dcs Inc
Well-known member
Sorry I wasn't clear. I have used our urethanes directly over vct tile. Industrial settings. Mix a little aluminum oxide in the urethane and you have a really tough floor.
Take a hammer to it and you will need to make repairs.
Take a hammer to it and you will need to make repairs.
Last edited:
trainer
Well-known member
I did this in a grocery store last year. I had new tiles laid and I used a stripper and a black (aggressive) scotchbrite pad to prep them for epoxy. New tiles generally come with a sealer on them that needs to be stripped before a finish is applied.
the urethane coat will need to be refreshed soon, but it should be less work than a strip/rewax
dcs Inc
Well-known member
I use a walk behind parquet floor sander. Makes for a quick prep. Denatured alcohol wipe with plenty of micro fiber mop heads to pull up any of the fine dust and your ready to rock.
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
Gene, so not in the same league as a standard epoxy floor or ceramic/porcelin tile in terms of impact resistance, correct? Nice thing though is if there was damage, that tile could be replaced and move on. But if it was coated, that might be a bit more difficult to replace a tile.
It would be nice to establish for this forum once and for all the pros/cons and how viable VCT is for garages or shop floors. Is it purely for "show" floors like a car dealership with light human traffic mainly or is it an option also for A. Normal functional garages B. Working garages or shops with carts/etc moving around, more car traffic, tool drops, etc. ? Does a coating transform it to be good for A or B above within reason?
If you coated it with polyurethane, would one coat do it or would two or three be better with VCT? One would offer more flexibility and ability to conform to movement or loads I would think but two or three of course would offer more wear resistance. - Paul