VCT Tile Question

[Garage Flooring]

There has been a lot of discussion on the forum about the use of VCT tile in the Garage. It's never been a product we have sold and we are very careful about what we sell.

We've been in discussions with one of the largest manufacturers of VCT tiles and they are of the opinion that VCT should not be used in the garage for several reasons including cracking and that the glue will not withstand freeze thaw.

The results I have seen here say otherwise. I am curious as to some opinions from those who have used them. Are VCT tile really a good solution for the DIY garage?

 

[JimVonBaden]

Yes, but like any flooring, they have limitations. They are generally well known, but most can be overcome.

Jim

 

[Chuck W.]

I have had it in my garage for 4 1/2 years. It has worn very well; no cracking or lifting. But, I live in Southern California where it doesn't hit freezing temps. I do have a few brownish marks on white tiles due to tires. I also put some effort into keeping looking good. I polish it regularly with a high speed buffer. I am very happy with it.

 

[SteveB]

I am coming up to 6 years since my garage Armstrong VCT self install. We live in Canada. My garage is not heated but is well insulated.

The concrete floor was 10-15 years old and not pristine.

This garage is used to store our vehicles, perform light maintenance and becomes my Guys' Room hangout.

I have stripped the finish once and will probably do it again next spring. I use no power equipment to clean or polish my floor, only mops and buckets.

There is a light brown stain on the tiles where tire rubber meets floor. For this reason I laid darker tiles under our cars.

My total floor area is approximately 550 square feet.

I have never had a tile crack or lift. I am very happy with this product.

Click on my signature link below for photos.

 

[Garage Flooring]

Thanks! Do you recall what your total installed costs were? Did it wind up being more cost and work than you thought?

 

[SteveB]

Thanks! Do you recall what your total installed costs were? Did it wind up being more cost and work than you thought?

We don't get as many cheap deals on building products in Canada. I believe the tiles were about 75 cents each and my total floor project came in just under $1000. This price included all materials, preparation, roller and tile cutter rental, finishing trim, plus a couple jugs of cleaner and polish.

I had studied this product for more than a year before I began the project so there were no surprises cost wise. Because I had never done this before I most likely performed some over kill in my preparation. Multiple applications of muriatic acid, all hand scrubbed with a bristle mop, power washed rinsing and then a sealer was applied.

The only tough part for me was hand troweling the glue, hard on my arthritic knees. The tiles went down quickly and reaped instant rewards because suddenly the previously ugly floor looked fantastic.

From start to finish took only a few days and was fun. There was some doubt as to whether this type of flooring was going to work in this climate and on a garage floor but I have been fully satisfied that I got what I wanted.

 

[kartracer23]

We don't get as many cheap deals on building products in Canada. I believe the tiles were about 75 cents each and my total floor project came in just under $1000. This price included all materials, preparation, roller and tile cutter rental, finishing trim, plus a couple jugs of cleaner and polish.

I had studied this product for more than a year before I began the project so there were no surprises cost wise. Because I had never done this before I most likely performed some over kill in my preparation. Multiple applications of muriatic acid, all hand scrubbed with a bristle mop, power washed rinsing and then a sealer was applied.

The only tough part for me was hand troweling the glue, hard on my arthritic knees. The tiles went down quickly and reaped instant rewards because suddenly the previously ugly floor looked fantastic.

From start to finish took only a few days and was fun. There was some doubt as to whether this type of flooring was going to work in this climate and on a garage floor but I have been fully satisfied that I got what I wanted.

Steve,
I've got VCT in my kart workshop and love it. Now that I'm building a new garage, I've been considering it for there as well. My only concern is slickness. Since we get snow & all here like you do, do you have any issues? In my kart shop I just use the standard Armstrong polish and I think it's slick when it's wet. Just don't want to be doing the splits as I get out of my car, y'know?

And to the OP: In my kart shop, the VCT does great. Obviously not as much weight as a car, but I'll spin stands around, drop stuff, drip BrakeKleen and all sorts of nasty stuff on it and it's held up fine. I did have a couple of stains from the tires on the stands, but I sanded them out and now put a mat under them.

And two days after I put them down, my bathroom next to the shop had a toilet fill line rupture and flooded it. An inch of water on the entire floor and not a single tile came up or came loose (but man was I worried!).

 

[deter]

It sound like VCT works OK in a garage. I'll bet the manufacturer says that because they wont warranty it

 

[Garage Flooring]

It sound like VCT works OK in a garage. I'll bet the manufacturer says that because they wont warranty it

Agreed...

 

[SteveB]

Steve,
I've got VCT in my kart workshop and love it. Now that I'm building a new garage, I've been considering it for there as well. My only concern is slickness. Since we get snow & all here like you do, do you have any issues? In my kart shop I just use the standard Armstrong polish and I think it's slick when it's wet. Just don't want to be doing the splits as I get out of my car, y'know?
.

Its difficult for me to provide a clear answer regarding the "slick when wet" question. We drive just one car in the winter and I put a diaper under it to catch melting snow. Its a combination of a large plastic tarp with a bunch of cardboard boxes flattened and taped together sitting on top. The roads people don't use salt around here just sand.

There have been times when my floor was wet due to an overflow of melted snow or summer rain dripping from the bottom of our cars. Under these circumstances I never found VCT to be slippery. If there were other contaminants already on the floor such as oil I'm fairly certain that the combination with water could provide you with some moments.

I keep reading comments about VCT being treacherous when wet but I've walked on wet painted cement floors that scared the bejeezuz out of me. I think that over time VCT develops a bit of grit, even if you keep it clean and polished, that adds to its traction. There have been some interesting posts on this forum regarding the use of products which both seal the tiles and add some traction if that is a huge concern for you.

 

[SteveB]

It sound like VCT works OK in a garage. I'll bet the manufacturer says that because they wont warranty it

I also get that feeling. Putting tile on a cement garage floor is not a difficult task so quite often its done by us amateurs. It appears that Armstrong Flooring has adopted the "not for garage floors" mantra to cover their asses. There seems to be a corporate concern that if we screw up the process during installation and tiles begin to lift sometime down the road they can walk away from any warranty claims.

Our climate is rather temperate here and I suspect that my floor has rarely gone below freezing temps. The tiles were laid during a July week with temperatures of 90F so I got solid adhesion. Perhaps in northern areas where well below freezing was the norm for months on end there may be some concern.

Anyone here have any experience with VCT in sustained cold temps?

 

[Mat Mobile]

I have a garage under the house.

I bought this house about 5 years ago. There is some VCT tile in the basement. The basement rooms with VCT are behind and next to the garage. It's at the same level and it's the same cement base. The only difference is that it is heated and does not see car traffic. It was probably installed 30 years ago so I can't say how valid my post is because it's a very old installation and I don't know how well it was done.

But just to finish, it's awful. The tile is unglueing in some areas and phosphoresence makes it "bubble" up.

I would use VCT in a very light traffic garage. A wood shop or light ATV garage. It has its advantages.

 

[964haus]

Thinking of using it in a shed I'm currently building that will act more like a light workshop and motorcycle maintenance space. Wooden floor so I'm looking at them just to address any minimal flex the floor might have over time (although it's 2x6 with 3/4 T&G ply, glued and screwed....

Interested in whether anyone's used it on a wooden floor?

Matthew.

 

[Kim with Armstrong Floors]

Hi! I saw this topic and thought it might be helpful to hear from us. I asked our customer service group about installing VCT in a garage and this was their response:

In order for flooring materials to be installed in residential or commercial garages, the flooring material must meet the International Residential Code R 309 for Garages and Carports for one and two family residential buildings or the International Building Code 406.2 for all other buildings. The codes outline garage floor surfaces shall be of approved noncombustible material. Armstrong flooring products do not meet this standard and therefore should not be installed in parking garage areas where vehicles will be parked on the surface of the Armstrong floor.

In addition, Armstrong flooring should only be installed in temperature-controlled environments. Normally garages are not temperature-controlled areas. After installation, the temperature should be maintained at a minimum of 55 degrees. Most garage floors have had gas and oil dripped or spilled on them. This residue in the substrate will inhibit the adhesive from working properly. Automobile fluids, such as brake, transmission and oil, if leaked onto the resilient flooring can get into the joints of the tile and break down the adhesive creating a bonding issue and a possible installation failure. The oils and antioxidants used in the manufacturing process of rubber tires will cause a permanent yellow discoloration to any resilient (vinyl) flooring. Also, exposure to the moisture from rain, snow or sleet and varying temperatures will have a damaging affect on both tile and sheet flooring.

So, here's the short answer: Armstrong flooring products are not made for this application. If you have any more questions, you can call Customer Service at 1-800-233-3823

Kim

 

[Garage Flooring]

Is it the look or the price of VCT people like? I think Kim's reply should be a sticky. People will still use VCT but they need to know from the horses mouth the issue. Anyone looked at LVT?

 

[Chuck W.]

Is it the look or the price of VCT people like? I think Kim's reply should be a sticky. People will still use VCT but they need to know from the horses mouth the issue. Anyone looked at LVT?

It is both the look and price. Kim's reply is what I would expect from a company representative. VCT is not made for the garage and there are issues if you use it. If the company said it was made for the garage the first time the tile got a mark from a tire or a stain from oil there would be complaints. I am coming up on five years of 1000 SF of VCT in my garage. I would use it again without worry or concern.

 

[thebear]

Is it the look or the price of VCT people like?

For me it is 3 things. Look, price, and flexibility. I have a working shop/garage, and I can't get everything out in order to prep and lay down epoxy. I could go with Racedeck(to get the same look and install flexibility), but at 3x the cost of VCT.

 

[Garage Flooring]

For me it is 3 things. Look, price, and flexibility. I have a working shop/garage, and I can't get everything out in order to prep and lay down epoxy. I could go with Racedeck(to get the same look and install flexibility), but at 3x the cost of VCT.

I would agree that racedeck is a good option and I do not even sell it. Armstrong says that VCT does not meet code which would give me serious pause.

Depending on where in the country you are freeze thaw could be a major issue and if your concrete would need to be prep for epoxy it needs the same prep for their glue. So by the time you buy the glue, the product and your time, what do you figure the installed cost actually is?

 

[JimVonBaden]

I would agree that racedeck is a good option and I do not even sell it. Armstrong says that VCT does not meet code which would give me serious pause.

Depending on where in the country you are freeze thaw could be a major issue and if your concrete would need to be prep for epoxy it needs the same prep for their glue. So by the time you buy the glue, the product and your time, what do you figure the installed cost actually is?

That has not been my experience. Armstrong is doing a CYA. Those with actual VCT have yet to complain about them coming up, despite dire warnings, and to be honest, the glue is the least of the issues with VCT. Staining of untreated VCT, and scratches, are on top.

I read a hundred times more complaints about failing epoxy (always blamed on poor prep) than I hear about failed VCT.

Actually, of the few dire warnings, I haven't seen a single photo of failed VCT.

Jim

 

[Ch3No2]

Jim...i have heard not too many complaints about VCT as well and I have had a few epoxy floors that just dont hold up. As far as the glue I build supermarkets for a living and we use VCT...my installer does Wal Marts and they are mandated to use Tarkett spray glue...very expensive....$30 a can that does 175 sq ft. I agree Armstrong was doind a CYA thing

 

[KPSquared]

Lots of guys use VCT and lots are happy with it. You can find every bit of what is being discussed in this thread in a multitude of other threads on this forum.

Guys like it 'cause it's cheap, decently durable, and looks good. I would never use it because I don't believe it will hold up to my use, but lots of guys have had plenty of success. I think the cost has to be the most appealing factor. . . the garage is a place for DIY and so a lot of finishing in the garage is DIY. . . DIY is usually to save money so if a product has performed satisfactorily for another person why not use it?

If I walk into a store to buy VCT tiles, they don't need to know where they are going and I take the risk. . . however, if I bought VCT tiles from a company dedicated to garage floors (the OP) then I would expect them to stand behind them.

I think VCT is a DIY solution for guys on a budget. From what I've seen, I don't think it would be wise to advertise it as a suitable product for garage floors. . .there's just to many variables. Then again, lots of paint companies sell "garage floor coatings" that are complete **** and they seem to get away with it. . .

 

[KPSquared]

I would agree that racedeck is a good option and I do not even sell it. Armstrong says that VCT does not meet code which would give me serious pause.

Depending on where in the country you are freeze thaw could be a major issue and if your concrete would need to be prep for epoxy it needs the same prep for their glue. So by the time you buy the glue, the product and your time, what do you figure the installed cost actually is?

I don't think you can factor in the individuals time invested. . . That's kind of the whole point of DIY. . . I do it when I'm not making money in order to spend less of the money I'm making when I'm working. My time outside of work is worth $0.00. . . so if a project takes me 3 months when I could have paid someone to do it in 3 days, it doesn't matter. . . I still saved probably half the cost doing it myself. Personal time invested is irrelevant when looking at a DIY product like VCT tiles.

 

[Garage Flooring]

I don't think you can factor in the individuals time invested. . . That's kind of the whole point of DIY. . . I do it when I'm not making money in order to spend less of the money I'm making when I'm working. My time outside of work is worth $0.00. . . so if a project takes me 3 months when I could have paid someone to do it in 3 days, it doesn't matter. . . I still saved probably half the cost doing it myself. Personal time invested is irrelevant when looking at a DIY product like VCT tiles.

OK. Everyone looks at that different. I sold a job to a lawyer and... well... we wont go there So you look at it material only. So for EVERYTHING you need, what do you think it will cost. Make sure you include the little stuff.

I am not trying to prove something here, I am sincerely curious.

 

[Garage Flooring]

Lots of guys use VCT and lots are happy with it. You can find every bit of what is being discussed in this thread in a multitude of other threads on this forum.

Guys like it 'cause it's cheap, decently durable, and looks good. I would never use it because I don't believe it will hold up to my use, but lots of guys have had plenty of success. I think the cost has to be the most appealing factor. . . the garage is a place for DIY and so a lot of finishing in the garage is DIY. . . DIY is usually to save money so if a product has performed satisfactorily for another person why not use it?

If I walk into a store to buy VCT tiles, they don't need to know where they are going and I take the risk. . . however, if I bought VCT tiles from a company dedicated to garage floors (the OP) then I would expect them to stand behind them.

I think VCT is a DIY solution for guys on a budget. From what I've seen, I don't think it would be wise to advertise it as a suitable product for garage floors. . .there's just to many variables. Then again, lots of paint companies sell "garage floor coatings" that are complete **** and they seem to get away with it. . .

From a consumer standpoint your right to a degree. If it works, why not. From my side of the fence I was looking into selling it. Once I realized It’s a code violation, I can’t… My business is garage flooring and I would be implying its for a garage….

But these same manufacturers have very similar products that might work. They have told me what they consider the installed price PSF to be for VCT and I think it’s a “game show MSRP” Ultimately if we could find a product that was a better fit at the same price point I think there are going to be a lot of happy people –even if I am not one of them because I may not be able to sell it.

 

[JimVonBaden]

My 400sq ft floor cost me just under $300. Tile, glue, trowels and all.

Mine is not sealed in any way yet. So add about $70 if one wanted to strip and seal it with Armstrong products. I know of no other product that is cheaper, though porcelain can be close if you find a good deal on it.

Jim

 

[Garage Flooring]

Tough to beat and looks awesome. I know its not a cost but how much time did it take you

 

[donnie]

From a consumer standpoint your right to a degree. If it works, why not. From my side of the fence I was looking into selling it. Once I realized It’s a code violation, I can’t… My business is garage flooring and I would be implying its for a garage….

What Code Violation are you talking about?

I have seen one VCT failure in this forum it was in BB767's Restored 1930's Auto Shop were the tiles came loose under his lift.

 

[JimVonBaden]

Tough to beat and looks awesome. I know its not a cost but how much time did it take you

Start to finish, since I did it in two days, half at a time, about 12 hours tops.

Jim

 

[kerryt1]

There is a product (Wolverine???) marketed as a clear epoxy for topcoating VCT. That seems very attractive to me. You get the design flexibility and ease of installation of VCT, plus the durability of epoxy without the difficult preparation.

 

[Garage Flooring]

<<<What code violation>>>

When I was checking into purchasing VCT for resale I was told it does not meet code. Then Kim from Armstrong posted this here:

Hi! I saw this topic and thought it might be helpful to hear from us. I asked our customer service group about installing VCT in a garage and this was their response:

In order for flooring materials to be installed in residential or commercial garages, the flooring material must meet the International Residential Code R 309 for Garages and Carports for one and two family residential buildings or the International Building Code 406.2 for all other buildings. The codes outline garage floor surfaces shall be of approved noncombustible material. Armstrong flooring products do not meet this standard and therefore should not be installed in parking garage areas where vehicles will be parked on the surface of the Armstrong floor.

In addition, Armstrong flooring should only be installed in temperature-controlled environments. Normally garages are not temperature-controlled areas. After installation, the temperature should be maintained at a minimum of 55 degrees. Most garage floors have had gas and oil dripped or spilled on them. This residue in the substrate will inhibit the adhesive from working properly. Automobile fluids, such as brake, transmission and oil, if leaked onto the resilient flooring can get into the joints of the tile and break down the adhesive creating a bonding issue and a possible installation failure. The oils and antioxidants used in the manufacturing process of rubber tires will cause a permanent yellow discoloration to any resilient (vinyl) flooring. Also, exposure to the moisture from rain, snow or sleet and varying temperatures will have a damaging affect on both tile and sheet flooring.

So, here's the short answer: Armstrong flooring products are not made for this application. If you have any more questions, you can call Customer Service at 1-800-233-3823

Kim

 

[280se guy]

VCT can be good if you treat it nicely. Here is a picture of my installation put down last November 2011.

It is fragile if you bang on it or drag something across it that scratches the wax surface. I have about 10 coats of wax on it now, 6 from last November and 4 from last Saturday.

Sent from my laptop in the garage, home of Anthracite, while listening to 181 FM Beatles radio on the Internet.


Regards,

280SE Guy

 

[jsraaf]

^^ your floor & garage look great. Looks more like a rec room!

I'd like to know what, if anything, is used at the transition edge of the tiles in the garage door openings. Presuming that maybe a clear epoxy or urethane is applied as a top coat, is that being extended beyond that edge? or ??

If for whatever reason my epoxy fails, I will seriously look at this. My only concern is the freeze/thaw in MN.

 

[JimVonBaden]

You get plenty of freeze thaw in VA. I doubt it will be a serious issue.

I used some aluminum step edge for mine at the door:

Jim

 

[donnie]

<<<What code violation>>>

When I was checking into purchasing VCT for resale I was told it does not meet code. Then Kim from Armstrong posted this here:

Codes are so different in every city/county I am going to have check mine out.

 

[Garage Flooring]

Codes are so different in every city/county I am going to have check mine out.

That they are! I have a couple of national certifications not relevant to what we do here but in the building trades. I had to spend a lot of time learning some code information. It is amazing how different they can be and how completely impractical they can be.

When it comes down to it the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) has the final say BUT she referenced IRC and IBC and the segments she referenced go back away.

There are some VERY RURAL counties that I know of that have not adopted either but for the most part one of the two sections she specified is going to apply almost everywhere. NOW there is a huge difference between being applied and how it would ever be enforced.

Now when you look at what the portion of code relates to "approved noncombustible material" you have to wonder if it is not approved because it does not qualify or if they just have not submitted it because they do not want it used in that application.

The reality of the situation is this. VCT appears to be here to stay and one of the manufacturers needs to get on board. We can't sell or support it because we can't promote something that does not meet code. The manufacturers concerns about freeze thaw contradict what people in the forum have seen. All of this goes back to a comment someone made in the beginning which is "VCT is not for a garage because the manufacturer does not want the liability". From what I have seen here it is tough to argue with that statement.

 

[280se guy]

^^ your floor & garage look great. Looks more like a rec room!

I'd like to know what, if anything, is used at the transition edge of the tiles in the garage door openings. Presuming that maybe a clear epoxy or urethane is applied as a top coat, is that being extended beyond that edge? or ??

If for whatever reason my epoxy fails, I will seriously look at this. My only concern is the freeze/thaw in MN.

Good question. I don't have a picture of that detail but any good flooring store that sells the VCT will have a variety of transition strips for that area. Mine is similar if not the exact one shown here, the VT8 as shown in the page. It lies directly under the garage door gasket.

My garage is attached to the house and I have 2 electric baseboard heaters for the winter so I'm not worried about the freeze/thaw cycle. The garage door is insulated to a R14 I believe.

Regards,

280SE Guy

 

[JimVonBaden]

That they are! I have a couple of national certifications not relevant to what we do here but in the building trades. I had to spend a lot of time learning some code information. It is amazing how different they can be and how completely impractical they can be.

When it comes down to it the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) has the final say BUT she referenced IRC and IBC and the segments she referenced go back away.

There are some VERY RURAL counties that I know of that have not adopted either but for the most part one of the two sections she specified is going to apply almost everywhere. NOW there is a huge difference between being applied and how it would ever be enforced.

Now when you look at what the portion of code relates to "approved noncombustible material" you have to wonder if it is not approved because it does not qualify or if they just have not submitted it because they do not want it used in that application.

The reality of the situation is this. VCT appears to be here to stay and one of the manufacturers needs to get on board. We can't sell or support it because we can't promote something that does not meet code. The manufacturers concerns about freeze thaw contradict what people in the forum have seen. All of this goes back to a comment someone made in the beginning which is "VCT is not for a garage because the manufacturer does not want the liability". From what I have seen here it is tough to argue with that statement.

Good post!

Jim

 

[Munich77]

You get plenty of freeze thaw in VA. I doubt it will be a serious issue.

I used some aluminum step edge for mine at the door:

Jim

That looks stunning Jim. I am in your neck of the woods and have been thinking about VCT too. How hard were they to install?

 

[JimVonBaden]

400 Square feet, took about 8 hours total, including the rubber edging and all the cuts around the sides.

Jim

 

[509SC]

The problem I see with a garage flooring business selling VCT is the cost of shipping and the ability to be able to make enough of a profit over the local Home Depot pricing. There are a wide selection of colors available, but custom colors come with a custom pricing and as always, it's full cartons @ 45sq. ft. per case. That just makes custom borders and inlays tricky to be cost effective at times.