Ventilation

[2drx4]

What is available for smoke/fume ventilation? I do a lot of grinding/welding/plasma work and occasionally paint things (nothing nice). My last shop I had some fans that would fit under the door for the event something serious was going on, otherwise I just cracked the windows. I'm in a very cold climate and the standard flap open louver fans are completely horrible for either blowing open in the wind, or generally just letting all your heat out.

Robot arm fume sucker-uppers? Big vent fan that has proper shutters? Something else? Google search is getting me a lot of results for junk.

Space is a 40'x40' with 16' ceilings. So lots of volume.

 

[Junkman]

Have you considered a motorized louver assembly? Google "motorized louver assembly" and you will find a wide variety.

 

[jblnut]

I purchased a Vevor dust collector for wood working, scrapped all but the fan and housing and used it to create a vent system above my welding area. It ***** fumes and general stink up and shoots it outside. It’s not a weld splatter catching deal of any kind, just smoke/stink/fumes. I open a window before I turn it on so there is makeup air.

I have in floor heat powered by an outdoor wood stove so having the exhaust fan run for a bit doesn’t bother me one little drill bit. I say skip actual fan inlets and just open a window with a screen on it. Simple and effective. If you want to get fancy you can build a duct to send the air towards the ceiling to give it a chance to warm before it blows across the shop.

 

[DaveAndStuff]

I think 3000 CFM fan with a will backdraft damper give you about six turns an hour.

You'd be better off with a smoke-eater if it's cold out.

 

[NUTTSGT]

16' ceiling, so you have an attic space? Is it a vented attic space?

If you have a way to create make-up air, you could vent into the attic space and let it be pulled out of there by natural convection.

Something as simple as a range hood fan or small squirrel cage fan may be all you need.

 

[2drx4]

Have you considered a motorized louver assembly? Google "motorized louver assembly" and you will find a wide variety.

That would help. Still doesn't do much for insulation, but at least they won't blow open. I guess a guy could use that as the terminus to a duct, and put a motorized damper in the duct too so there is trapped air between to slow down heat loss. That may cause other issues too.

 

[2drx4]

16' ceiling, so you have an attic space? Is it a vented attic space?

If you have a way to create make-up air, you could vent into the attic space and let it be pulled out of there by natural convection.

Something as simple as a range hood fan or small squirrel cage fan may be all you need.

It's a vented attic, but that air is not warmer than ambient when it's cold out, but it will be super hot in the summer.

 

[2drx4]

I purchased a Vevor dust collector for wood working, scrapped all but the fan and housing and used it to create a vent system above my welding area. It ***** fumes and general stink up and shoots it outside. It’s not a weld splatter catching deal of any kind, just smoke/stink/fumes. I open a window before I turn it on so there is makeup air.

I have in floor heat powered by an outdoor wood stove so having the exhaust fan run for a bit doesn’t bother me one little drill bit. I say skip actual fan inlets and just open a window with a screen on it. Simple and effective. If you want to get fancy you can build a duct to send the air towards the ceiling to give it a chance to warm before it blows across the shop.

That seems like a cheap way to DIY it for a specific area. Vevor has them for pretty cheap. Did yours come with an arm assembly or did you just put a hood over the area?

I guess on the whole "open a window" thing I could also just mount one of my other fan assemblies so it hinges in front or away from one of the windows, and then just open the window, turn it into place, then open an opposing window to get cross flow. That would probably be the best for making it so it still seals tight when I'm not using it, but so I am still able to move a lot of air when I want to. I guess I could also just build a little insulated door/cover to go over the normal wall mount fans (even if it has motorized louvers) and close it to seal it when I'm not using it.

 

[2drx4]

I could buy some linear actuators like this:



And use them to close a plywood/foam insulated door over the standard louver vent fans.

This style and cheapness:



That is more screwing around but I bet I can make it insulate about 100X better than just the motorized louver versions for about 1/4 the price.

 

[WildBill]

I could buy some linear actuators like this:



And use them to close a plywood/foam insulated door over the standard louver vent fans.

This style and cheapness:



That is more screwing around but I bet I can make it insulate about 100X better than just the motorized louver versions for about 1/4 the price.

In an old shop of my brothers we used an attic fan that had automatically opening insulated doors (shutters?) for venting. Mostly because it was free, but it worked nice and was insulated pretty well when closed.

 

[2drx4]

In an old shop of my brothers we used an attic fan that had automatically opening insulated doors (shutters?) for venting. Mostly because it was free, but it worked nice and was insulated pretty well when closed.

I can't seem to find any that are actually insulated. They look like they're all aluminum or steel sheetmetal or extrusions. Better than just having the air pour out, but not holding heat when it's -40 out.

 

[BurtEggley]

do you weld on a table where you could build a hood over it, or do weld all over the garage" Same for paint, how large a project are these, whole cars and trucks or smaller things.

 

[2drx4]

do you weld on a table where you could build a hood over it, or do weld all over the garage" Same for paint, how large a project are these, whole cars and trucks or smaller things.

I weld everywhere, but most projects theoretically are on the table. Paint, similar, sometimes I paint a whole cab or such, but without a booth it's not like I'm doing a nice job. I'd probably still put fans under the garage door if I was to do anything that large.

 

[BurtEggley]

maybe a hood over the table or some kind of flexible hose with portable hood. Use your fans or a plastic painting tent for larger jobs. Otherwise you may need some kind of autobody set up with filters and scrubbers. Here there is a limit to how much one can paint without those. Air Board has sniffers and mobile sniffers all over that pick up PPM and trace it back to the source.

 

[WildBill]

I can't seem to find any that are actually insulated. They look like they're all aluminum or steel sheetmetal or extrusions. Better than just having the air pour out, but not holding heat when it's -40 out.

Maybe look for whole house fans, that might be a better name.

 

[CraigStu]

I think you should concentrate on the 'fume sucker upper'. As small and localized as you can make it. Use something like this.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Rubber-Cal-Rubber-Cal-Air-Ventilator-Yellow-Ventilation-Duct-Hose-Fully-Stretched-6-in-by-25-ft/1003011210

either by itself or connected to something funnel shaped or range hood shaped. Your makeup air could be a window barely cracked open or get fancy and cut a 6-8" hole in the wall for a manual opened air valve. My goal would be to **** out the minimum amount of air needed to get rid of the fumes vs swapping out the entire 40x40x16 air which now you have to start over warming.

 

[2drx4]

maybe a hood over the table or some kind of flexible hose with portable hood. Use your fans or a plastic painting tent for larger jobs. Otherwise you may need some kind of autobody set up with filters and scrubbers. Here there is a limit to how much one can paint without those. Air Board has sniffers and mobile sniffers all over that pick up PPM and trace it back to the source.

I'm not in California. As long as I am using chemicals that are available to individuals and following the precautions on them I am fine. I rarely paint with isocyanates because they're gross anyway.

 

[2drx4]

Maybe look for whole house fans, that might be a better name.

There is HRV/ERV options but they're expensive, have relatively low flow rates, and I am not sure if they will live a long happy life in a dusty/oily/fume filled environment. I'll look into it more though.

 

[jblnut]

I don’t have a great zoomed in picture but you can see in insulated box I built for my 18” exhaust fan. I’ll see if I can find construction pictures of it but it’s exactly what you described before. In this picture I have it on a cable and pulley system to open and it stays closed with gravity. Sometimes it flops open when I have a door open but a little fresh air never hurt anyone.

 

[2drx4]

I don’t have a great zoomed in picture but you can see in insulated box I built for my 18” exhaust fan. I’ll see if I can find construction pictures of it but it’s exactly what you described before. In this picture I have it on a cable and pulley system to open and it stays closed with gravity. Sometimes it flops open when I have a door open but a little fresh air never hurt anyone.

I like it. That's much more simple than an actuator.

 

[NUTTSGT]

It's a vented attic, but that air is not warmer than ambient when it's cold out, but it will be super hot in the summer.

I'm not talking about pulling fresh air from the attic, I was talking about exhausting into the attic.. this would keep the exhaust fan (whatever you use) out of the direct weather...rain, wind or snow.

 

[DaveAndStuff]

Old evaporator coolers make pretty good smoke-eaters

 

[gahrajmahal]

We had a tour a few years ago at our local art museum in their restoration shop. It is a large glass enclosed space, north facing where they clean paintings and glue broken objects back together. At each work station, around four, they have an articulated arm with a small hood, maybe 24” x 24” going to the ceiling. A squirrel cage blower with several speeds is mounted near the ceiling. A flexible hose connects the two. Switches on the hood control the fan. I thought this looked like the ultimate setup for fumes and welding smoke.
In addition, wear a welding respirator under your eye shield since you are welding indoors.

 

[2drx4]

I'm not talking about pulling fresh air from the attic, I was talking about exhausting into the attic.. this would keep the exhaust fan (whatever you use) out of the direct weather...rain, wind or snow.

I have large carports on both sides. So I can not see any issues with rain or snow. Wind is still always an issue as the attics here are ventilated as well as possible to avoid ice damming, so any wind will basically go right through them.

 

[2drx4]

Old evaporator coolers make pretty good smoke-eaters

Interesting idea. They're not common here because it doesn't get really hot, but the auction has everything.

We had a tour a few years ago at our local art museum in their restoration shop. It is a large glass enclosed space, north facing where they clean paintings and glue broken objects back together. At each work station, around four, they have an articulated arm with a small hood, maybe 24” x 24” going to the ceiling. A squirrel cage blower with several speeds is mounted near the ceiling. A flexible hose connects the two. Switches on the hood control the fan. I thought this looked like the ultimate setup for fumes and welding smoke.
In addition, wear a welding respirator under your eye shield since you are welding indoors.

That's what I meant by the robot arm in the first post. They're common for a dedicated station. I could probably build a massive one that could swing over half the shop or so too.

And I wear a respirator regardless of welding inside or outside that pulls air from my back. Best upgrade you'll ever make to your welding setup. That said, the new helmets that have the respirator built in and the flip up grind option are pretty amazing looking.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I have large carports on both sides. So I can not see any issues with rain or snow. Wind is still always an issue as the attics here are ventilated as well as possible to avoid ice damming, so any wind will basically go right through them.

This is my point but nevermind.

 

[2drx4]

This is my point but nevermind.

I don't follow. The attic is cold as frig in the winter. The black shingles mean it's got so much solar gain that it overwhelms the ventilation in the summer. You don't want to vent moist air into it in the winter, as it will instantly condense and/or freeze to insulation, framing and mechanical systems. That condensation will wet the insulation and framing, leading to mold growth and rot, along with potentially contributing to ice damming in no-wind situations if the temperature hovers around the freezing transition for too long and/or the roof has the wrong exposure or shading. You don't want to pull air from it in the summer as it will be hotter than a gas station burrito that's just come out of the microwave. In the climatic extremes of my location, attics are void spaces that have to be well ventilated, and beyond being a conduit for very select mechanical systems (electrical and compressed air), they should be left alone. Even running bathroom/kitchen vents through them is a bad idea here, although code still allowed it (or at least did until recently, rules have changed with HRV/ERV but I don't know what they are, direct wall vent ERVs look like the better solution but I was unaware they existed until I made this thread). You don't vent anything into or out of an attic, you let the passive venting work and leave it alone.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I don't follow.

I edited to add the "but nevermind" after I clicked on your username and saw you're in BC, Canada.. Location isn't seen while using GJ and phone.

You mentioned very hot in the summer early on and then mentioned not seeing issues with rain or snow. ... and not in California. I assumed US Southwest... like Texas....my mistake.

It wasn't till I saw what I posted quoting you in bold about the ice damming (missed that part first time around) and clicked on your profile to see location...

So, yes nevermind, my thought is definitely not going to work for you in your location.

 

[racecougar]

Need Advice On Garage Exhaust Fan

I would like to add small exhaust fan to my garage to remove smoke from using mapp gas from heating and soaking rusted bolts and also the occasional cigar pow-wow. The garage is about 25' x 25' with 8' ceiling and is currently bare studs and I'm hoping to get it wired and insulated before this...

www.garagejournal.com