To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Venting/cooling 40'x60' shop, specific details provided.

Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
11
Location
FL
I've read a lot of posts/threads on this topic but none accurately reflect my situation so I hope everyone will read and share there opinions. I've tried to provide as much detail & relevant info as possible. Thanks in advance!

40' x 60' metal building, open trusses, 12' from floor to bottom of truss joists, est. 18-20' to roof peak, 2 x 8x10ft rollup doors, 1 x 10x12ft rollup door, all doors on long side (60'), soffit and ridge vents, concrete floor, NO insulation/barrier on walls or bottom of top beam of trusses. Located in N. Central FL, mid-high humidity and currently high 90's temps outside. West & North walls shaded. East & South walls full sun until midday & most of roof full sun until about 4PM.

In a feeble attempt to mitigate the heat, I open large door & farthest small door. Place 30" pedestal fan in large door & blow outside air into shop. As you would guess, this does little to nothing to decrease ambient heat throughout the shop. So, I've avoided the shop during the last few summers and I don't want to do that anymore. I'm attempting to be somewhat cost effective and frugal to preserve funds for my pending projects.

Question: Assuming no insulation is added, what would be the most effective means of lowering air temp in the shop? These are the only somewhat useful options that come to my mind:

Option 1: Large high CFM exhaust shutter fan at the top of one of the gable ends & a large vent grill at opposite gable end. My concern here is the open doors & vents will minimize the ability of the exhaust fan to generate enough pressure to evacuate the hot air. Would it work better to close the doors to create positive/negative pressure?

Option 2: Mid-Large shop floor fans in each door at opposite ends of the shop & blowing outside air into the shop. My theory is the "cooler" air would create more floor level air flow and push the hotter air up and out of the ridge & soffit vents. Is this even a valid theory?

Option 3: Any other suggestions?



20230721_133050.jpg
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

CamMark

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
76
Location
Palmetto State
My building is about half the volume of yours, but I have what you're describing in option 1 set up so far. I do have basic insulation all around including the 10x16ft drive door. I do see about 5-7° above ambient on a hot, sunny day. If I vent the building at full power it will bring that back to around ambient within a few minutes. Closing up the building while the exhaust fan is on could cause the fan motor to over heat since it would only be stirring nearby air and not moving the air past it. I normally will have the drive door open a foot or less from the ground when the fans are running. That way the air comes in along the somewhat cool concrete then up and out of the building. about 15-20ft from the door there is a decent full-body height breeze.

I am set up with enough flow to change over all the air in the building every 2 minutes so that I can run engines/welders ect. inside without dying. As well as that works, I will probably still add a few directional fans for added comfort as my area tends to feel pretty "tropical" most of the year.

I have looked at "swap coolers" as a stop gap until I have the money set aside for a heat pump, but they seem a little pricy for a temporary solution. I think they would be justifiable as a long term solution in a non-insulated building like yours. I have used them at work and so I can say first-hand they are effective.
 

pcmeiners

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
7,872
Location
In the only town in Pennsylvania, Bloomsburg.
Insulation and a heat pump is the most viable for cooling. A heat pump would also give you the little heat you need in the early mornings of the Florida winter.

"Doing it at night if it is lots cooler outside might help."

Having air changes in the early morning hours will produce a great deal of condensation as the dew point temperature is reached within the shop, and then the morning temperature begin to rise . The surface in the shop will cool down until about 4-5am, then it starts to slowly warm up. The warming air hold a lot of moisture, the cold surfaces in the garage, cement , tools, etc cause the moisture to condense...great if you like rust and water flowing off you metal envelope. I assume you have some condensation presently, it would far exceed what you have now with fan ventilation at night.

You would have a few hours late night where fan ventilation could cool the shop, but the shop would need to have no air exchange after those hours so no condensation would form, not easy to do.
 
Last edited:

OGJordan

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
170
Insulating a building is much cheaper than many think and will make it INFINITELY more comfortable.
 
OP
G
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
11
Location
FL
Insulating a building is much cheaper than many think and will make it INFINITELY more comfortable.
Unfortunately, I'm sure insulating 4800sf of walls & roof at whatever it costs is beyond my budget. Could probably do radiant barrier.
 
OP
G
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
11
Location
FL
My building is about half the volume of yours, but I have what you're describing in option 1 set up so far. I do have basic insulation all around including the 10x16ft drive door. I do see about 5-7° above ambient on a hot, sunny day. If I vent the building at full power it will bring that back to around ambient within a few minutes. Closing up the building while the exhaust fan is on could cause the fan motor to over heat since it would only be stirring nearby air and not moving the air past it. I normally will have the drive door open a foot or less from the ground when the fans are running. That way the air comes in along the somewhat cool concrete then up and out of the building. about 15-20ft from the door there is a decent full-body height breeze.

I am set up with enough flow to change over all the air in the building every 2 minutes so that I can run engines/welders ect. inside without dying. As well as that works, I will probably still add a few directional fans for added comfort as my area tends to feel pretty "tropical" most of the year.

I have looked at "swap coolers" as a stop gap until I have the money set aside for a heat pump, but they seem a little pricy for a temporary solution. I think they would be justifiable as a long term solution in a non-insulated building like yours. I have used them at work and so I can say first-hand they are effective.
Hmmm. I researched swamp coolers and the takeaway was that they only work effectively in hot, low humidity environments since the coolers "cool" by adding moisture to the existing air. Higher humidity like FL has limits the amount of moisture they are able to add/cool.
 

gregs

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
1,589
Insulation and air conditioning are really the only real way to make it comfortable. Other than that is to open all the doors and put fans every where you are working. Thats how my work is and its rather unpleasant, but my home shop has insulation and a/c and its a joy to work in.
 

930dreamer

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
22,947
Location
Amarillo,TX and Stinnett,TX
Definitely not a evaporative/swamp cooler in a high humidity location. I'm in the same boat with a 40x80 all steel vintage shop(no insulation) but I can drop the shop temp by ten degrees with my two swamps coolers. I run the three ceiling fans 24/7 but the 16' side walls and open ceiling collect the heat.
 

Youngandfree

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 29, 2020
Messages
877
Location
VA
When I build my shop, I'm installing one of these. Wire directly to solar panels.

 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
G
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
11
Location
FL
Insulation and air conditioning are really the only real way to make it comfortable. Other than that is to open all the doors and put fans every where you are working. Thats how my work is and its rather unpleasant, but my home shop has insulation and a/c and its a joy to work in.
I'd love to insulate & add HVAC or mini splits but it's just too costly. Easy $10K+. The radiant effect of the sun heated metal panels is the issue I believe. I'm leaning toward putting radiant barrier on the walls with direct sun exposure and at the bottom of the top beam of each roof truss. Cost would be only 18 cents per SF for RadiantGUARD plus staples & tape. The total cost would be less than $1K for 3600SF if I install. This should reduce inside wall & ceiling surface temps to within a few degrees of ambient air temp. Add a gable exhaust fan to the South end to evacuate air and create some air flow. Strategically place fans, as you suggested, near where I'm working.
 
OP
G
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
11
Location
FL
Definitely not a evaporative/swamp cooler in a high humidity location. I'm in the same boat with a 40x80 all steel vintage shop(no insulation) but I can drop the shop temp by ten degrees with my two swamps coolers. I run the three ceiling fans 24/7 but the 16' side walls and open ceiling collect the heat.
Have you looked at RadiantGUARD? Amazon has 1000sf rolls for $184. Reduces radiant heat by 96%.
 
OP
G
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
11
Location
FL
When I build my shop, I'm installing one of these. Wire directly to solar panels.

Big *** fans are sweet but are BIG $$$$! A "small" 96" is only $3K+. That mini-split is nice too but my shop would need four of them.
 

930dreamer

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
22,947
Location
Amarillo,TX and Stinnett,TX
Have you looked at RadiantGUARD? Amazon has 1000sf rolls for $184. Reduces radiant heat by 96%.
This shop metal is from 1957, i should have bought new metal when I bought the place. So everything is temporary until it all gets replaced or I build another one. Still some knob and tube remnants on one wall.
 

Attachments

  • 20230722_151741.jpg
    20230722_151741.jpg
    1 MB · Views: 25

My Old Tools

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
5,432
Location
Hamrick Lake, TX
Have you looked at RadiantGUARD? Amazon has 1000sf rolls for $184. Reduces radiant heat by 96%.
Don't believe the 96% stuff. Here is the report from Oak Ridge National Laboratory.
"The tests to date have shown that in attics with R-19 insulation, radiant barriers can reduce summer ceiling heat gains by about 16 to 42 percent compared to an attic with the same insulation level and no radiant barrier. These figures are for the average reduction in heat flow through the insulation path. They do not include effects of heat flow through the framing members."
 

BillD

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
50
Don't believe the 96% stuff. Here is the report from Oak Ridge National Laboratory.
"The tests to date have shown that in attics with R-19 insulation, radiant barriers can reduce summer ceiling heat gains by about 16 to 42 percent compared to an attic with the same insulation level and no radiant barrier.

But he has neither an attic nor insulation nor ceiling. I can't imagine a more irrelevant test.

A metal roof in the sun gets pretty hot. It will radiate heat down below regardless of air movement. Even a thin sheet of mylar, like an emergency heat blanket, should stop most of that radiant heat.
 

Augus7us

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2017
Messages
1,190
Location
Central Ohio
You're chasing a red herring here. Nothing you have mentioned will condition or cool the air. The best you will accomplish with plastic sheets, fans, etc would be to cool the space down to ambient temperature, which as you stated is mid 90's with high humidity.

You noted you don't want to insulate the entire building, can you do half the building? Otherwise I'd save the money and just work out there in the fall and winter.
 

theoldwizard1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,125
Location
SE MI
Gable end fan won't doo much. You need at least 6 POWERED roof vent fans. Then maybe a couple of giant sizes (5'-6') rolling fans by the doors.

If the ambient temp is in the 90s and the humidity is high, don't expect much relief. Get a quote on (at least) 4" of spray foam on the underside of the roof. That would help A LOT !
 

ycgoat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
971
Location
S.E. Va
I am in the same boat and put radiant barriers on roof only and use a box fan blowing directly on me when needed. The building stays ambient, so far I have managed. O plan to put on a large gable fan but not for cooling. My shop is the only building on the property so building out a bathroom and office that will hopefully be air conditioned
 

bb29510

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 27, 2022
Messages
1,216
i got a lovere exhaust fan,aka cattle barn fan. mine an 24. tractor supply sells the same one. It really drops the temperture fast and not that loud. I bought it for welding. put it on the opposite wall of the doors
 

drjzimm

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2024
Messages
8
Location
Heber City, UT
I have a 2X6 wood framed garage/shop, 28'W X 36'D, with a 14' X 36' upstairs level, created by attic trusses. I simply want to move air between the main level, and the upper level with reversible fans, based on daily temperature differences. I am leaning towards a ducted fan system, with at least four fans around the upstairs level. I am having trouble finding equipment that will function in the way that I want. Anybody have experience with this type problem?
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom