Vertical to Horizontal Mounted Outlet Question

[GCncsuHD]

I have an outlet, that just happened to land in the wrong spot on my work bench. It is mounted vertically in the wall, I want to turn it 90 degrees and bring it out of the wall and into the backsplash of the countertop on my workbench. I would like to have your suggestions on this before I start.

Here is the work area and the location of the outlet.



As you can see, with the top on there, the outlet is hidden behind the backsplash, and the cover is just visible above.


I don't want to lose functionality of the outlet, and I know to be "code" it needs to be accessible.

My idea was to remove the outlet and box, (probably cut the nails from the box into the stud with a hacksaw blade), then cut my horizontal hole for the box into the backsplash, then into the wall and patch the leftover hole from the old box.

Now then, as far as mounting the new box, using an "old work" box, should I mount the box in the wall and use an extender to get through the backsplash (about 1.25" thickness from the wall)?

OR mount the box directly into the backsplash, in this case the back of the box would basically be "floating" in the wall.

I would think the first option is best correct? That would mean I would need a box extender at least 1.5" or so deep to make up the 1.25" thickness?

Thanks for any suggestions

 

[rockwithjason]

depending on how the cable is run, i would look at dropping that box below the counter and then cutting in a new box wher you like. the other option is to cut open the wall and patch it back when you have it how you want it. as for coming into the backsplash, mount the box in the wall and use a spark ring to extend to the surface of the backsplash

 

[GCncsuHD]

Also...to add, there is also an outlet inside of the tall cabinet on the right, it was a simple matter of a box extender though. I was going to use that outlet to run power to my stereo (mounted up on top of the cabinets), and under cabinet task lighting.

I was considering running wire from that outlet, into a 3 gang box mounted in the side of the cabinet (right side of the workbench, in front of the paper towel holder area), mounting a switch for the lighting (goes to a DC transformer, low voltage LED lights), and a switch to the stereo, and possibly an extra outlet. Essentially "extending" the outlet from inside the cabinet to the outside.

For this scenario, would it hurt having say 18" or so of a 12ga extension cord (happens to have it's own 15a breaker in the plug) running from the outlet in the cabinet, to supply power to the box mounted in the side of the cabinet, then a short extension cord from the switch in the box to the lights and one to the stereo? I know that's probably not up to code, I know code does not allow "flexible cords" inside of a wall, floor, or ceiling, but it doesn't mention inside of cabinets. Essentially this would be making a "switched" extension cord going to my radio and lighting.

Any reasons why this would be an issue? Alternative suggestions? I did consider using something like wiremold raceway to get power from the switch box, ran through the cabinets, and an outlet inside the top cabinets to connect to the radio and cabinet lighting with NM inside. Edit:after looking into it more, wiremold looks like the way to go here.

 

[GCncsuHD]

depending on how the cable is run, i would look at dropping that box below the counter and then cutting in a new box wher you like. the other option is to cut open the wall and patch it back when you have it how you want it. as for coming into the backsplash, mount the box in the wall and use a spark ring to extend to the surface of the backsplash

Thanks, I actually ran that wire in the garage (so I only have myself to blame for the outlet location), there is not enough slack to drop the box 8" or so it would take to get it below the 2x4 brace under the counter. Your second suggestion is how I envisioned doing it.

 

[rockwithjason]

Also...to add, there is also an outlet inside of the tall cabinet on the right, it was a simple matter of a box extender though. I was going to use that outlet to run power to my stereo (mounted up on top of the cabinets), and under cabinet task lighting.

I was considering running wire from that outlet, into a 3 gang box mounted in the side of the cabinet (right side of the workbench, in front of the paper towel holder area), mounting a switch for the lighting (goes to a DC transformer, low voltage LED lights), and a switch to the stereo, and possibly an extra outlet. Essentially "extending" the outlet from inside the cabinet to the outside.

For this scenario, would it hurt having say 18" or so of a 12ga extension cord (happens to have it's own 15a breaker in the plug) running from the outlet in the cabinet, to supply power to the box mounted in the side of the cabinet, then a short extension cord from the switch in the box to the lights and one to the stereo? I know that's probably not up to code, I know code does not allow "flexible cords" inside of a wall, floor, or ceiling, but it doesn't mention inside of cabinets. Essentially this would be making a "switched" extension cord going to my radio and lighting.

Any reasons why this would be an issue? Alternative suggestions? I did consider using something like wiremold raceway to get power from the switch box, ran through the cabinets, and an outlet inside the top cabinets to connect to the radio and cabinet lighting with NM inside. Edit:after looking into it more, wiremold looks like the way to go here.

if you are running the flexible cord to an outlet and pugging it in then the installation qualifies as cord and plug connected and there is no worry. the important part is being able to pull the plug and disconnect the circuit in the cabinet.

 

[6speed]

Thanks, I actually ran that wire in the garage (so I only have myself to blame for the outlet location), there is not enough slack to drop the box 8" or so it would take to get it below the 2x4 brace under the counter. Your second suggestion is how I envisioned doing it.

If you don't have enough slack to lower the existing box to below the countertop, is the wiring feeding down from the ceiling so that you can raise the height of the outlet to above the backsplash?

If the wiring is feeding left/right through the studs, perhaps eliminate this problematic receptacle outlet and cut in two new outlets that will be in the clear?

Personally I'd avoid putting it IN the backsplash, since I'd rather it not be "splashable".

 

[GCncsuHD]

If you don't have enough slack to lower the existing box to below the countertop, is the wiring feeding down from the ceiling so that you can raise the height of the outlet to above the backsplash?

If the wiring is feeding left/right through the studs, perhaps eliminate this problematic receptacle outlet and cut in two new outlets that will be in the clear?

Personally I'd avoid putting it IN the backsplash, since I'd rather it not be "splashable".

The wiring is fed left to right through the studs, I do not want to "remove the problematic outlet" as I do want to keep it on my workbench (the power strip will be disappearing to a different location, so I will still need power on the bench). There is nothing "splashable" about the backsplash, this is an assembly bench, not a kitchen sink, the most splashing the counter might see is a little oil and grease here and there.

 

[Mustang51js]

Since there's nothing to splash on it, I would either cut the backsplash around the outlet the way it is, or use a wire mold box so the outlet is further out then cut the backsplash up to it, or blank it off and add an outlet above it and just don't secure the backsplash permentately

 

[Mustang51js]

Or the very last option cut the feet on the cabinets and lower them down

 

[GCncsuHD]

Since there's nothing to splash on it, I would either cut the backsplash around the outlet the way it is, or use a wire old box so the outlet is further out then cut the backsplash up to it, or blank it off and add an outlet above it and just don't secure the backsplash permentately

Or the very last option cut the feet on the cabinets and lower them down

The backsplash is one piece with the countertop, so to remove the backsplash the entire countertop has to come off, I don't want to have it blanked off behind the backsplash. I don't want to "cut it around it", I'll likely do what I mentioned in the first post, and reinforced by Jason's comment and pull out the old box, cut the hole horizontal in the same spot, put an old work box in horizontal, patch the hole, and use a box extender ring to extend it out to the backsplash.

Cutting the feet on the cabinets is not an option, the back of the cabinets sit directly on the block foundation wall, besides then I would have to cut my barstools shorter too

I may tackle this over the weekend and post up the results.

 

[rockwithjason]

we do this all the time. we rough the box in and use a spark ring to bring the outlet flush to the surface. you will be happy with the results

 

[GYPSY400]

The wiring is fed left to right through the studs, I do not want to "remove the problematic outlet" as I do want to keep it on my workbench (the power strip will be disappearing to a different location, so I will still need power on the bench). There is nothing "splashable" about the backsplash, this is an assembly bench, not a kitchen sink, the most splashing the counter might see is a little oil and grease here and there.

How about removing the box and relocating it a stud over, giving you the option to mount it at the height you choose.. Oh let me guess.. It's not the last one in the circuit. ??!!


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[6speed]

How about removing the box and relocating it a stud over, giving you the option to mount it at the height you choose.. Oh let me guess.. It's not the last one in the circuit. ??!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's why I suggested putting in TWO new boxes, one to the left of and the other to the right of the existing box, with a NEW length of cable in between.
Kind of like going from a single-tower suspension bridge to a "taller" two-tower suspension bridge...

 

[marinusdees]

If you don't know the answer to this question don't attempt it.

 

[GCncsuHD]

we do this all the time. we rough the box in and use a spark ring to bring the outlet flush to the surface. you will be happy with the results

Yep, that is the plan now, just needed someone to bounce the idea off of.

How about removing the box and relocating it a stud over, giving you the option to mount it at the height you choose.. Oh let me guess.. It's not the last one in the circuit. ??!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope, not the last in the circuit, actually 2nd in a line of 5. The height I choose is really the height it's at, just spaced out in the backsplash of the workbench for easy access while working, I'd rather not put it up any higher and have it interfere with the pegboard tool layout that is now above the bench.

That's why I suggested putting in TWO new boxes, one to the left of and the other to the right of the existing box, with a NEW length of cable in between.
Kind of like going from a single-tower suspension bridge to a "taller" two-tower suspension bridge...

Thanks, that would work, but I think I'm going with repositioning the box, and using a spark ring/box extender in the backsplash. There's plenty of wire in the existing box, I think 6" is code? There is at least that much if not more, so pulling it out 1.5" to the front of the backsplash should be no issue.

If you don't know the answer to this question don't attempt it.

How about being helpful? If you look back I did know the answer, as I posted it in the first post, just needed to the bounce idea off of others to make sure I wasn't off base.

 

[rsanter]

I would remove the plug and use a cover plate. Get one of those power strips. You know the long skinney ones and put it right above the back splash and use the outlet as a junction box to power the strip

Next option
Get an exsisting work,box. Install it 8 inches above where the old one is now. Pull the wires from the old one and route into the new box.
Patch the old hole

Bob

 

[jeff000]

Just cut the drywall out ad move that box up to a more appropriate height for you. Any decent electrician should have left loops going into the box enough to move it at least 6 inches.
If not, cut a bigger hole so you can redrill a hole to get the wire into a more as the crow flies line to the next box, or even to pull some of the slack from the next box.

 

[GCncsuHD]

Bringing a conclusion to this thread

Removed the old box, cut the hole in the backsplash.
Untitled by wrfalcon75, on Flickr

Found this Arlington One Box, horizontal mount box
Untitled by wrfalcon75, on Flickr

Mounted up, old hole patched, extension ring through the backsplash, and a handy box cover fit nicely. Don't mind the edges of the extension ring being visible around the cover slightly, I'm running a bead of silicone around the edge of the cover to keep dust out anyway. And don't mind the rough edge of the bottom of the pegboard, it will have a piece of trim running across to finish that edge.
Untitled by wrfalcon75, on Flickr

In the end I'm happy with the result

 

[rockwithjason]

nice looking repair. good job

 

[89GLH]

I was going to suggest taking a multimax to the backsplash, I just did the same thing to a workbench I built. Looks good, congrats.

 

[GCncsuHD]

I was going to suggest taking a multimax to the backsplash, I just did the same thing to a workbench I built. Looks good, congrats.

Thanks, that is what I used, well, a HF knockoff I got for Christmas several years ago, it has come in handy several times.

 

[1grnlwn]

Just a thought. If you have connections in the original box behind the pegboard it needs to have access. Perhaps a blank plate and cut pegboard around plate.

 

[GCncsuHD]

Just a thought. If you have connections in the original box behind the pegboard it needs to have access. Perhaps a blank plate and cut pegboard around plate.

None of the original box is behind the pegboard, 100% of the box is accessible through the countertop backsplash, remove the cover, remove the outlet, voila there's the box. The original box is gone, replaced by that horizontal box and extender ring. Even so, that 24x22 section of pegboard is quickly removable via 8 screws.

If you are referring to the first picture in post 18 where it looks like the old box and hole was above the backsplash, it's a visual trick, the countertop was slid about 10" away from the wall giving the illusion the hole is above it. With it slid back the backsplash covers all but 1/8" of the old hole, which was patched anyway.


This really bad blurry pic shows the horizontal box installed, with the hole leftover from the original box before patching. Once the countertop was slid back, the hole in the backsplash lines up with the box perfectly, and the extension ring was slid through the backsplash and into the box.
Untitled by wrfalcon75, on Flickr

Thanks for watching out though!

 

[pattenp]

You were lucky that you had enough cable slack to reach fully into the new box.

 

[GCncsuHD]

You were lucky that you had enough cable slack to reach fully into the new box.

Lucky? No, I believe code calls for at least 6" of slack inside the box, I think I started out with 6.5 or 7" in the box and the receptacle was pigtailed to the wires entering and leaving the box, so plenty to reach the extra 1.5" or so to the front of the backsplash. As far as getting the romex jacketing into the box, it came up a bit short on top. I did some reading and a couple wraps of electrical tape is an approved repair to the romex jacketing (as long as no wire insulation is compromised) so I just gave it a few wraps so that it is still guarded where it enters the box.

 

[pattenp]

When I said enough slack, that was meaning you had enough cable to get the outer jacket into the new box.

Lucky? No, I believe code calls for at least 6" of slack inside the box, I think I started out with 6.5 or 7" in the box and the receptacle was pigtailed to the wires entering and leaving the box, so plenty to reach the extra 1.5" or so to the front of the backsplash. As far as getting the romex jacketing into the box, it came up a bit short on top. I did some reading and a couple wraps of electrical tape is an approved repair to the romex jacketing (as long as no wire insulation is compromised) so I just gave it a few wraps so that it is still guarded where it enters the box.