Vertical Up MIG

[Wamsutta]

Is there anyway to get the bead profile flat? I mean I know that gravity is pulling the puddle down, but there still has got to be a way. I'm trying to perfect the triangle pattern, but it'll take some time. All the weld parameter charts are for flat and horizontal, so I'm having to experiment with my own settings. Lately I've been trying 18V@205 ipm with .030'' wire. I'm throwing this out there in case somebody has some tips. Vertical down is a breeze compared to vertical up.

 

[Terra Nova]

Is there anyway to get the bead profile flat? I mean I know that gravity is pulling the puddle down, but there still has got to be a way. I'm trying to perfect the triangle pattern, but it'll take some time. All the weld parameter charts are for flat and horizontal, so I'm having to experiment with my own settings. Lately I've been trying 18V@205 ipm with .030'' wire. I'm throwing this out there in case somebody has some tips. Vertical down is a breeze compared to vertical up.

I've been struggling with that as well. The one bit of advice Jody from Welding Tips and Tricks gives is the back the settings down to those listed for the next thinner material (i.e 14 --> 16 ga if welding 14 ga vertical).

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Not sure what you mean by 'flat". MIG never really lays flat. How thick is your material? Vertcal up with MIG is only used on thicker material in specific situations. If you are trying to do it with thin material it makes it that much harder. I'm assuming you are practicing with either a fillet or lap weld as well. Your settings mean nothing to me without knowing what machine you are using and material thickness. Being you are using .030 wire I'm assuming you are trying this on relatively thin material.

Continue to lower your voltage and wire speed till you find a setting that works for you and gives proper penetration. If you are having the opposite issue, too proud a bead and less penetration, either speed up and increase your voltage, decrease your wire speed or both. Practice making fillet welds and lap welds as that is where it is used most.

 

[cannuck]

You go vert up to get far better penetration than you usually get vert down. I think of it more like doing a **** joint where the puddle makes a hole you have to constantly fill. In other words when at the puddle you need to see it deposit to the root then weave up ahead of the puddle to allow the root part to cool enough to come back to deposit once again.

Hard to describe but you will see what I mean when you practice and think of this.

 

[rattle_snake]

Dunno but practice helps for a better setup/result.

 

[Wamsutta]

I've been struggling with that as well. The one bit of advice Jody from Welding Tips and Tricks gives is the back the settings down to those listed for the next thinner material (i.e 14 --> 16 ga if welding 14 ga vertical).

I have tried that and I still might try it some more. A vertical up parameter chart would sure be nice, but I guess we'll have to make our own.

 

[Wamsutta]

Not sure what you mean by 'flat". MIG never really lays flat. How thick is your material? Vertcal up with MIG is only used on thicker material in specific situations. If you are trying to do it with thin material it makes it that much harder. I'm assuming you are practicing with either a fillet or lap weld as well. Your settings mean nothing to me without knowing what machine you are using and material thickness. Being you are using .030 wire I'm assuming you are trying this on relatively thin material.

Continue to lower your voltage and wire speed till you find a setting that works for you and gives proper penetration. If you are having the opposite issue, too proud a bead and less penetration, either speed up and increase your voltage, decrease your wire speed or both. Practice making fillet welds and lap welds as that is where it is used most.

I can get horizontal passes pretty flat on T joints if I run them hot enough. There seems to be a fine line between hot enough and undercut.

I've been practicing with 1/8 material even though I know it's supposed to be too thin for vertical up.

 

[Wamsutta]

You go vert up to get far better penetration than you usually get vert down. I think of it more like doing a **** joint where the puddle makes a hole you have to constantly fill. In other words when at the puddle you need to see it deposit to the root then weave up ahead of the puddle to allow the root part to cool enough to come back to deposit once again.

Hard to describe but you will see what I mean when you practice and think of this.

Yes I know that. 1/8 plate seems to be the cutoff thickness for vertical down.

 

[Sumboodie]

I generally go downhill. Not welding space buggies, so good enough.
Can weld uphill too, just don't like to. Same with overhead.

 

[Wamsutta]

I need to try some 1/4 material so I can run hotter.

 

[no704]

Not that it has anything to do with your question. But when welding overhead like on a roll cage, slap some magnets on the pipe, makes it much easier and less molten steel falling.

 

[Sweetcorn]

I'm not sure what weave/pattern you use when doing vertical up bare wire mig, but I use a modified triangle pattern with a tiny bit more dwell at the top/peak. Can't draw it out right now for you, but I can later if you don't find something you like.

Also, definitely want to drop the voltage and wire speed down to what works. As mentioned, next thickness down is a good starting point but don't be afraid to play around and look for what works.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

I need to try some 1/4 material so I can run hotter.

You'll need bigger wire. .035 min, if your welder can run it

 

[Wamsutta]

You'll need bigger wire. .035 min, if your welder can run it

I can run it if I change out the gun liner. What would be the benefit of the thicker .035 wire on 1/4 inch material?

 

[Mas78]

If your willing to try an outer shield flux core wire, you'll be amazed how well the flux holds the weld puddle going vertical up and overhead.
With the outer shield flux core wire you don't change polarity like you have to do with normal flux core ( self shielded ) wire. You'll also still need to run your shielding gas, typically C25 for home use.
Here's a youtube link from Jody @ weldingtipsandtricks.

If I'm welding much out of position I put this wire in my Miller 211. Just be warned the weld arc is allot hotter on the back of your hand than normal short circuit welding.
Typically doing Vertical up welding I do the weld / pause / move up 3/32" repeat. you have to get into a rhythm but it's a very effective way to get good weld penetration vs vertical down welding.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

I can run it if I change out the gun liner. What would be the benefit of the thicker .035 wire on 1/4 inch material?

You generally can't make single pass welds with .030 in 1/4" thick material. Multi pass yes but not single. Granted vertical up and the weld motion being a bit different than say a typical fillet or **** weld lying flat so it may work. IDK. .030 wire is rated up to 1/8". Anything over, "the book" says use .035.

.035 is ideal for anything thicker than 1/8". Doing 1/4" thick material in one pass requires a lot of amps as well.

 

[Wamsutta]

You generally can't make single pass welds with .030 in 1/4" thick material. Multi pass yes but not single. Granted vertical up and the weld motion being a bit different than say a typical fillet or **** weld lying flat so it may work. IDK. .030 wire is rated up to 1/8". Anything over, "the book" says use .035.

.035 is ideal for anything thicker than 1/8". Doing 1/4" thick material in one pass requires a lot of amps as well.

Parameter chart for machine says 20.9V@456 ipm for 1/4 inch steel using .030 wire with 75/25. And they have parameter settings all the way up to 3/8 steel with .030 and .035 wire. Everything specified for flat and horizontal though. I guess they figure in a manufacturing situation, most people won't be making passes out of position. Overhead cranes can move or rotate your work for making in position passes.

 

[Sumboodie]

If your willing to try an outer shield flux core wire, you'll be amazed how well the flux holds the weld puddle going vertical up and overhead.
With the outer shield flux core wire you don't change polarity like you have to do with normal flux core ( self shielded ) wire. You'll also still need to run your shielding gas, typically C25 for home use.
Here's a youtube link from Jody @ weldingtipsandtricks.

If I'm welding much out of position I put this wire in my Miller 211. Just be warned the weld arc is allot hotter on the back of your hand than normal short circuit welding.
Typically doing Vertical up welding I do the weld / pause / move up 3/32" repeat. you have to get into a rhythm but it's a very effective way to get good weld penetration vs vertical down welding.

Why is there weld on the back of your hand?

 

[Monza Harry]

@no704 Thanx I'll have to try that!
@Mas78 Thank You as well, some good tips I don't ever want to use but will likely need to!