expatriated
Well-known member
If you guys ever start buying Toptul sockets, you won't be able to get rid of that Cman stuff fast enough.
Very dissapointed with Craftsman sockets
- Thread starter iandh
- Start date
SnowBlaZeR2
Well-known member
I doubt that. Even if I ever upgrade my old Craftsman that have worked for my family longer than I've been alive (30+ years), they will still have a place in my tool collection. Nice try though.
BillK
Well-known member
So .......... you got each tool for about 50 cents ..... and you have the nerve to complain about the quality ???????????????????
Sorry, you got what you paid for and I dont think it is fair to say a single bad thing about Craftsman at those prices.
By the way, I have almost all Craftsman tools both at home and at work and I bet I have not had one fail in at least ten years and they do get used daily.
Just my opinion,
And it's a big reason why Taiwanese workers are a lot more likely to develop cancer from hexavalent chromium exposure.
Just saying.
If anyone has nerve, it's Sears, for making me watch TV commercials all night about how tough and high quality their tools are, and then selling me sockets with PEELING CHROME.
70 of the 200 pieces in the kit are just filler **** like 1/4" hex bits, there are only about 100 sockets. At full kit price, we're talking closer to $2 a socket.
I can pay 1/4th the price I paid, and recieve tools of twice the quality at harbor freight, with the same lifetime warranty to boot... and the harbor freight sockets won't cut your fingers with sharp edges, or drop chrome flakes into your repairs.
The fact that I snagged a 50% deal is nice, but you have to look at the average sale price of a tool if you want to judge its' true value.
Teken
Well-known member
Still waiting for some pictures to view the condition of these sockets . . .
SnowBlaZeR2
Well-known member
^I agree.
Starting to sound like a bash thread now. Have you even attempted to return them? Have you contacted Sears about it? If you haven't given them a chance to fix it yet, you need to do that before saying how terrible the quality is. Every single company has problems and things slip by. If they don't make it right, then there's a problem.
On the part where you were talking about the "filler" pieces. You knew the contents when you bought it. That isn't Craftsman's fault. It's yours. Everyone knows those big kits are mostly for people starting a tool collection, and you won't catch them critiquing the quality of the chrome on the business end of those sockets.
Don't get me wrong, the situation needs fixed and you have a complaint here for sure. That isn't cause to start calling Craftsman junk. You go waste your money at HF and I'll stick with Craftsman. We'll see who's still using those same tools in 30 years.
Starting to sound like a bash thread now. Have you even attempted to return them? Have you contacted Sears about it? If you haven't given them a chance to fix it yet, you need to do that before saying how terrible the quality is. Every single company has problems and things slip by. If they don't make it right, then there's a problem.
On the part where you were talking about the "filler" pieces. You knew the contents when you bought it. That isn't Craftsman's fault. It's yours. Everyone knows those big kits are mostly for people starting a tool collection, and you won't catch them critiquing the quality of the chrome on the business end of those sockets.
Don't get me wrong, the situation needs fixed and you have a complaint here for sure. That isn't cause to start calling Craftsman junk. You go waste your money at HF and I'll stick with Craftsman. We'll see who's still using those same tools in 30 years.
I returned them the day after I made this thread. If you think I'm lying about the chrome flakes I had laying all over my workbench after removing these from the rails, then fine.
I already did return the set... what the hell does that have to do with me being displeased with the quality and starting a discussion thread to see if others had the same experience?
You're right, it is turning into a bash thread... everyone bashing me for ending up with the worst quality tools I've ever seen in my entire life.
As far as the filler pieces, if you think two generic hex key sets and some 1/4 hex bits are worth $100 of the $200 value, then I've got some cheap *** hex keys here for you... where's my $100?
If you're happy with PEELING CHROME on your tools, have at it. I for one am not. If you call buying tools that aren't dog **** "wasting money", then to each his own.
I can't believe you guys are defending craftsman on this one... there is NO EXCUSE for tools this quality, regardless of the price and country of origin.
I'm not saying every craftsman tool is this quality, but do you guys really expect me to go running out and risk buying more of this garbage?
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SnowBlaZeR2
Well-known member
Were any problems given returning it? What was the outcome of that.
You started a discussion thread "to see if others were having the same experience" and yet I keep hearing "worst quality ever". I see others, including myself telling you we didn't have that experience, and some that did. Not much bashing of you. The point I'm trying to get across is that if the product was returned and the issue was resolved, there really is nothing to ***** about. I understand that the quality was low, but it happens.
I would not be happy with peeling chrome. Fortunately for me, my hundreds of Craftsman sockets are all top notch and up to my standards.
*edit
Didn't see your edit.
I wouldn't have bought the set in the first place. I'm not an idiot, but thanks for implying that. I know enough not to buy those sets in the first place. Nice try though.
Some advise here, don't buy those sets again. If it's something you can buy at KMart, it might not be very good.
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Teken
Well-known member
I don't recall calling you a liar about anything, actually . . . I do how ever recall asking you to post up the condition of these sockets, so as the GJ community could view and ascertain the level of chrome peel etc . . .
Having said that, what is the current condition of the set you have now?
Are they better, worse, the same as the other?
If they are better, again I would like to see a photo of this kit to see how this kit compares to other brands that have been posted on this site . . .
One of the corner stones of this site is having the members share insight, thoughts, and when a picture can illustrate a persons point, then it is done!
So, once again may we have some pictures of the new set, and are they to the level of quality you are seeking?
Yes there is an excuse, the price. I don't blame you for being mad for getting junk. But its kinda the gamble you take when buying cheap tools. Craftsman is not to blame, they are just filling a market. I wish it wasnt that way, but people demand stuff cheap, so they get it. What was you expecting for the price? Tool marks hand polished out and mirror like chrome?
I didn't have any trouble returning them, especially after I showed them to the manager and he said "wow"
I never implied you were an idiot, but you are implying I am (??) for buying a set that contains the same ratchets and combo wrenches that are sold on the wall at sears?
Are the craftsman tools I bought different than some other craftsman tools I didn't know about?
The sockets are the same as well, minus the gimmick laser etching. You'd be pretty hard pressed to convince me that the standard sockets are made in a different factory than the laser etched ones...
I don't recall calling you a liar about anything, actually . . . I do how ever recall asking you to post up the condition of these sockets, so as the GJ community could view and ascertain the level of chrome peel etc . . .
Having said that, what is the current condition of the set you have now?
Are they better, worse, the same as the other?
If they are better, again I would like to see a photo of this kit to see how this kit compares to other brands that have been posted on this site . . .
One of the corner stones of this site is having the members share insight, thoughts, and when a picture can illustrate a persons point, then it is done!
So, once again may we have some pictures of the new set, and are they to the level of quality you are seeking?
I returned the old set, got my $100 back, and got the hell out of dodge.
Sorry to get so rude with everyone, but on a site that's so obsessed with quality and USA, I can't believe that I'm being attacked for reporting a lapse in that USA quality.
Luckily, I still have the 10pc extension set a couple of which are of equally abysmal quality, so I can show a shot of that vs. my "crappy" HF extensions.
Give me a few minutes.
At $200 a kit normal price, this isn't exactly your bargain basement kit, and it's no snap-on either. My problem is that I see Craftsman still adverstising their quality, but this stuff isn't even up to 1980's era Chinese standards.
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Ok, so here we go:
"Crappy" HF extension on the left, "Quality USA" extension on the right. You can see on the sides and bottom where the chrome has peeled right out of the socket. Some of that was from me taking the extension on and off the ratchet, and part was from me poking around with a pick to see how much was loose. Approximately 1/3 of the sockets in the set were this bad, and a couple were even peeling on the outside. You can also see how dull and gray the chrome is compared to the "normal" colored chrome on the HF extension.
This pic is focused slightly different so that you can see the specs of spatter or whatever the hell it is stuck in the cavity. These were also all over nearly ALL of the insides of the sockets in the set, and the chrome plating was put right over the top of this ****. In some, it was so sharp that it could cut you if you pressed too hard.
Keep in mind, this is a BRAND NEW, never used extension that was just purchased and removed from its factory packaging on Monday. It has not seen any unusual treatment, or any treatment at all for that matter.
I do not feel it is too much to ask for an extension of the quality shown on the left, considering it came from Harbor Freight of all places.
This extension is a FAIR representation of the quality of the set. I did not in any way pick some extra ugly part to misrepresent the overall quality. In fact, some were even WORSE. The reason I picked this one is that it is the best example of both the peeling chrome, and whatever all that **** stuck all over the inside is.
"Crappy" HF extension on the left, "Quality USA" extension on the right. You can see on the sides and bottom where the chrome has peeled right out of the socket. Some of that was from me taking the extension on and off the ratchet, and part was from me poking around with a pick to see how much was loose. Approximately 1/3 of the sockets in the set were this bad, and a couple were even peeling on the outside. You can also see how dull and gray the chrome is compared to the "normal" colored chrome on the HF extension.
This pic is focused slightly different so that you can see the specs of spatter or whatever the hell it is stuck in the cavity. These were also all over nearly ALL of the insides of the sockets in the set, and the chrome plating was put right over the top of this ****. In some, it was so sharp that it could cut you if you pressed too hard.
Keep in mind, this is a BRAND NEW, never used extension that was just purchased and removed from its factory packaging on Monday. It has not seen any unusual treatment, or any treatment at all for that matter.
I do not feel it is too much to ask for an extension of the quality shown on the left, considering it came from Harbor Freight of all places.
This extension is a FAIR representation of the quality of the set. I did not in any way pick some extra ugly part to misrepresent the overall quality. In fact, some were even WORSE. The reason I picked this one is that it is the best example of both the peeling chrome, and whatever all that **** stuck all over the inside is.
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Teken
Well-known member
I'm sorry but I don't follow this logic . . . If there was a quality issue why not return the item and see if the next set was good, bad, ugly?
For the sake of argument: If I found that all the sets were at the same poor level of quality then I would have to take pause, and really reconsider and more than likely look else where for another brand that fit the bill . . .
Now, having said that . . .
Why did you not sample another set and view the contents while you were there? Would this not give you some insight?
A) The quality seems to vary from good to bad
B) The quality is poor across the line, consistently
C) The quality is consistent with the reflective cost being sought by the vendor
Insight . . .
For the sake of argument: If I found that all the sets were at the same poor level of quality then I would have to take pause, and really reconsider and more than likely look else where for another brand that fit the bill . . .
Now, having said that . . .
Why did you not sample another set and view the contents while you were there? Would this not give you some insight?
A) The quality seems to vary from good to bad
B) The quality is poor across the line, consistently
C) The quality is consistent with the reflective cost being sought by the vendor
Insight . . .
The first reason was that none of the individual sockets or socket sets hanging on the wall looked much better. They also had grayish chrome, and rough mysterious **** stuck all over the insides.
Being that I got this abysmal quality in both a 204pc standard kit, and the seperately packaged 10pc "professional" extension set from the other side of the store, it's *not* isolated to just one single dud set of tools. It had to be an entire production run.
Most likely, all six 204pc kits they currently had in stock were from the same production batch, so returning the kit and getting another would likely have done nothing but piss me off and waste my time.
Maybe at some point in the future I'll give them another try, but at this point they've lost my business for the time being.
Heck, I have Stanley sockets (mid-length) that are much better than the Cman sockets in my box..............Late model Cman tools are pretty bad, I stopped buying them once I got a taste of GearWrench. Sad but true.
I think the OP is disgusted because his "lowly HF sockets" were better than the new Craftsman sockets.........................cheap USA loses, and he is disgusted.
My Cman tools from the 70's and 80's seem to be a much different story. Those days are gone.
I don't think the OP is bashing, wait until he buys truck brand tools that get out done by lowly tools...........................next thread.
I think the OP is disgusted because his "lowly HF sockets" were better than the new Craftsman sockets.........................cheap USA loses, and he is disgusted.
My Cman tools from the 70's and 80's seem to be a much different story. Those days are gone.
I don't think the OP is bashing, wait until he buys truck brand tools that get out done by lowly tools...........................next thread.
SnowBlaZeR2
Well-known member
Have you tried the thin profiles? I'd bet they weren't the ones in that set. Craftsman does sell more than one line of tools. I'm pretty sure that my sockets weren't made in the same factory as yours as I'm sure the manufacturer changed between then and now. I couldn't tell you though as I don't really care. They are good quality and that's what matters.
I wish I still had some of my old crappy import sockets you seem to think are so much better than Craftsman. They looked great. Chrome was almost flawless. Oh and the crack down the middle of the socket where it lost a battle to a spark plug looked great too. That socket in your picture looks real nice. I think I'll stick with a brand that has never failed me though. I'm not saying those sockets don't serve a purpose. They fixed my cars plenty of times when I was a kid. Anyone to think those sockets are good quality though...
Anyways, no one is attacking you for pointing out a lapse in quality. My problem is that you seem to want to label the brand because of one socket set you happened to get. I'm not attacking you either. All happiness on my side.
This is exactly what the thread is about.
I'm in disbelief at how horrible the quality has become. I used to be a big Craftsman guy, and the quality of these tools left me feeling sick to the stomach.
Being a low cost USA made tool is NOT an excuse for HORRIBLE quality, as some in this thread have tried to convince me.
Craftsman KNOWS how to make a good tool... as technology advances, price should go down and quality should go up. In this case, it's not happening.
Have you tried the thin profiles? I'd bet they weren't the ones in that set. Craftsman does sell more than one line of tools. I'm pretty sure that my sockets weren't made in the same factory as yours as I'm sure the manufacturer changed between then and now. I couldn't tell you though as I don't really care. They are good quality and that's what matters.
I wish I still had some of my old crappy import sockets you seem to think are so much better than Craftsman. They looked great. Chrome was almost flawless. Oh and the crack down the middle of the socket where it lost a battle to a spark plug looked great too. That socket in your picture looks real nice. I think I'll stick with a brand that has never failed me though. I'm not saying those sockets don't serve a purpose. They fixed my cars plenty of times when I was a kid. Anyone to think those sockets are good quality though...
Anyways, no one is attacking you for pointing out a lapse in quality. My problem is that you seem to want to label the brand because of one socket set you happened to get. I'm not attacking you either. All happiness on my side.
The thin profiles are SUPERB. I really really like them.
The problem I have with this batch of Craftsman stuff I got is, if they can't even be bothered to wash the items before they chrome plate them, how can I trust that the maintained quality in any other aspect of the manufacturing process?
The import tools keep getting better every year, and they WILL catch up.
In fact, if the tree huggers have their way, there will be a day when you can't buy a USA made tool of quality any more. Even when that day comes, there will still be people claiming the import tools are inferior.
I'm not making any specific claim regarding today, what I am saying is that the quality of the import tools is improving so rapidly that it's hard to judge current quality vs. past experiences.
I apologize for being rude in my earlier posts.
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speed bump
Well-known member
Shoot, all this bitching and nothing about how they work. I use mine all the time and can think of three warranties I have done (stripped a 1/4" 12pt, stripped an old 3/8" 12 pt using it all the time with an air ratchet, and cracked a 13mm because I needed access and impact at the same time.) and none of those were anything special.
Everyone wants to complain about not having American made stuff but between the government not wanting to make stuff here (both through the EPA and FERC) and consumers not wanting to pay for it what do you expect?
Everyone wants to complain about not having American made stuff but between the government not wanting to make stuff here (both through the EPA and FERC) and consumers not wanting to pay for it what do you expect?
I completely agree.
For *me*, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, plating quality is actually more important than strength, due to the conditions I work in. For most on this board, the opposite is true.
I have tools that are 10 years old that still look brand new. Most people here wrench on grease and dirt, and the tools start to look worn the day they get unwrapped.
To be honest, I'm sure the sockets I had would have worked fine... until they started dropping chrome into my repairs and frying stuff.
expatriated
Well-known member
Ok, so here we go:
Yep, looks like a typical Cman socket to me--what's the problem My recent purchase of the huge tool set (260 piece??) had many of the sockets that look like yours. The difference is I didn't expect better.
My recent purchase of the huge tool set (260 piece??) had many of the sockets that look like yours. The difference is I didn't expect better.
I bought the 260 piece set and none of mine looked like that. If they did I would have returned them. All 155 or so sockets looked fine besides having to wipe some oil off that was causing the "rainbow" effect on some of them. Anyone who would think that chrome like that is OK and not return them is part of the problem I would guess.
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Merkava_4
Banned
expatriated
Well-known member
I probably shouldn't post a picture of my GearWrench extensions; they're flawless.
Unfair comparison, Merk. Like posting a pic of Salma Hayek next to Helen Thomas.
expatriated
Well-known member
I've learned that any visit to return something to Sears is more trouble than it's worth. If one of my Cman pieces fails, I just give it away then call Mike Wren or get on the Snap-on site (what I should have done to start with)
Besides, what are the odds that one of my local Sears stores would have 155 good quality sockets? That's probably like 25 stores' worth
JohnFreeman
Well-known member
Just out of curiosity (since I work in the business) what manner of fine pitch electronics requires assembly with commercial ratchet wrenches?
Merkava_4
Banned
I believe we will see more and more of this type of comparison as U.S. manufacturers try to stay price competitive with imports. Cman could easily keep their quality high, but would the original poster pay $300 for that socket set? Probably not, since he didn't buy it at regular price, and only chose to buy it when the price reached $100 on sale. So Cman and other U.S. manufacturers are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They continue to get "creative" to cut costs everywhere they can to hit a price point and still make a few pennies, while trying to determine a level of "acceptable" quality that won't turn off customers. If the OP is speaking the truth (we didn't actually see pictures of the sockets, so we have to take his word for it) then in this case Cman has crossed that line where quality is unacceptable.
As I stated earlier in this post, I have not experienced this issue with my 260 pc. Cman socket set purchased last year, nor have I seen it on the racks of my local Sears this weekend. So, I remain skeptical until I actually see it for myself. (Yes, I agree that the pics of the extensions look pretty bad).
I do not own any HF sockets. I do own some SO sockets that over the years have peeling chrome, so it happens to the best as well. I do have a Taiwan set of Evercraft sockets that I purchased from NAPA several years ago. The chrome looks great, and they have held up well so far. Maybe the answer is to send all tools to Asia for chrome plating, since the EPA has pretty much killed the chrome plating industry in the U.S. Either that, or get rid of chrome plating altogether and use a finishing technique that isn't as shiny.
If I was the OP, and I was a long time satisfied Cman customer as he says, I wouldn't have been so quick to bash them so publicly on the forum. I would have given Sears a chance to make it right, which from my experience, they certainly would have and then reported how satisfied I was that there are still American companies that stand behind their warranty.. But to each his own. Glass half full . . . glass half empty.
Dale
As I stated earlier in this post, I have not experienced this issue with my 260 pc. Cman socket set purchased last year, nor have I seen it on the racks of my local Sears this weekend. So, I remain skeptical until I actually see it for myself. (Yes, I agree that the pics of the extensions look pretty bad).
I do not own any HF sockets. I do own some SO sockets that over the years have peeling chrome, so it happens to the best as well. I do have a Taiwan set of Evercraft sockets that I purchased from NAPA several years ago. The chrome looks great, and they have held up well so far. Maybe the answer is to send all tools to Asia for chrome plating, since the EPA has pretty much killed the chrome plating industry in the U.S. Either that, or get rid of chrome plating altogether and use a finishing technique that isn't as shiny.
If I was the OP, and I was a long time satisfied Cman customer as he says, I wouldn't have been so quick to bash them so publicly on the forum. I would have given Sears a chance to make it right, which from my experience, they certainly would have and then reported how satisfied I was that there are still American companies that stand behind their warranty.. But to each his own. Glass half full . . . glass half empty.
Dale
Indy_500
Well-known member
I think the whole problem is you guys are complaining about how these look. They're tools! What, are we buying tools now because of how they look? I know in your circumstance you need them for electronics and they can't flake. But how strong of a socket do you need to tighten nuts and bolts on electronics? I buy Craftsman because it's strong, not because it looks pretty.(even though it doesn't really)
SnowBlaZeR2
Well-known member
My recent purchase of the huge tool set (260 piece??) had many of the sockets that look like yours. The difference is I didn't expect better.
I've learned that any visit to return something to Sears is more trouble than it's worth. If one of my Cman pieces fails, I just give it away then call Mike Wren or get on the Snap-on site (what I should have done to start with)
Besides, what are the odds that one of my local Sears stores would have 155 good quality sockets? That's probably like 25 stores' worth
Typical huh? I see only a few people complaining about this. I'm sure Sears has sold more than their fare share of those sets, with satisfied results. I have plenty of those same sockets that have no problems. They aren't as good as Snap On's overpriced tools, but what is?
Maybe your Sears is different than any I've ever been to, but the one here in NC, and the ones I used in Florida, Arizona, Ohio and PA were all the same. If you aren't satisfied, bring it back and they replace it. Simple. A lot easier than hoping a truck comes by at the exact time you break or need something.
rustyjeeps
Active member
When I was young and had skinny arms Craftsman was fine. Now heck with the chrome, the new or old sockets crack all the time. I had to move them out of the main toolbox because I am afraid of them cracking. If they don't crack the chrome flakes off and ouch injury time. I will not drive around looking to replace cheap tools. In the scrap bin they go as they crack nowday's U.S.A. built or not.
SnowBlaZeR2
Well-known member
You know, I guess I'm the only one that has ever gotten a good set of Craftsman sockets. I've never had to replace a single one, and they do the same work that any other socket will do.
Dunno about that, but you might be one of the few in this thread that actually use the damn things
SnowBlaZeR2
Well-known member
Dunno about that, but you might be one of the few in this thread that actually use the damn things
I'm sorry, I thought you said I'm the only one that likes my money.
Seriously, I don't see the problem with using something that works and spending my money on things I need more than Snap On. I don't make any money off of my tools, and there is no way I'm buying things I don't need just to have them. I just hate when people have the mindset that if you aren't using Snap On or whatever brand they think is the best, you obviously don't know anything about tools or how to use them.
rustyjeeps
Active member
Craftsman is just fine if it holds up for your usage. It holds up fine for me in my ranch truck toolboxes. I like to use it in the race car trailer as it is cheap to replace when it get's stolen. It does not work for me in my shop or my job. If I am out in the middle of the sticks on a service call and a socket breaks I may be in big trouble. For the people that tune up or restore a vehicle in their home garage Craftsman is a great choice, a real money saver. But at $75+ an hour you do not want a mechanic working an anything at your place with it. Do you?
SnowBlaZeR2
Well-known member
If it works for him, and he fixes my car I could care less what he uses to do it. Luckily for me I have never taken a single car into the mechanic. Unless you count oil changes on the wife's Nissan (warranty thing).
rustyjeeps
Active member
The shop that I work for charges a service call fee and $75 an hour from the time we leave the shop to the time we return and all the time is charged out to the customer. If I have to find a town to get a replacement tool or a part the customer pays fair or not. If I drive slow, eat lunch, have a flat, or take a nap the customer pays. If you are working in the shop and something breaks you can borrow one from another tech...... Something that I do not like to do, but no big deal.
Not looking for a ******* match, just my point of view and my opinion. Sadly I would quit my job if I had to use nothing but current quality Craftsman tools.
Not looking for a ******* match, just my point of view and my opinion. Sadly I would quit my job if I had to use nothing but current quality Craftsman tools.
rustyjeeps
Active member
SnowBlaZeR2;935957 I just hate when people have the mindset that if you aren't using Snap On or whatever brand they think is the best said:I agree.
SnowBlaZeR2
Well-known member
Well it's a good thing I know how to fix my own cars, haha. I wouldn't pay anyone to eat lunch.
If I did this for a living and my livelihood depended on what tools I used, maybe I would think differently. I won't argue that most technicians need the best quality tools in certain cases. You'd be hard pressed to convince me that some one who works on their toys on the weekends needs a garage full of Snap On though.
Here's what this boils down to. I buy Craftsman. You buy what you buy. At the end of the day, if we are happy with our tools, I don't see a problem with Craftsman.